Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 1162 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, ROH, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:40 AM   #11611 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I agree with what you said about Orton but I wouldn't want him to job to Punk so I'm glad they've kept them away from each other during this horrible year. (apart from that Raw match that lasted about one minute before becoming a tag match)

Just finished watching the first ever HBK/Cena match from the Halloween Raw of 2005 right before Taboo Tuesday and thought it was decent. Somebody here was reviewing their series a while back and claimed that they only had 4 matches (2 in 07 and 2 in 09) but he forgot about this one. Ends in DQ as one would expect but it's okay while it lasts. Also the first time I've heard Cena getting so vocally booed since coming to Raw. I guess that's officially where the booing caught on and overtook the cheers.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:59 AM   #11612 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

1. Undertaker vs. Triple H at WrestleMania 28. *****
2. Punk vs. Bryan at Over the Limit. *****
3. Cena vs. Lesnar at Extreme Rules. ****1/2
4. Punk vs. Jericho at Extreme Rules. ****1/2
5. Sheamus vs. Bryan at Extreme Rules. ****1/2
6. Punk vs. Jericho at WrestleMania 28. ****1/4
7. Sheamus vs. Del Rio vs. Orton vs. Jericho at Over the Limit. ****1/4
8. Punk vs. Bryan at Money in the Bank. ****
9. Punk vs. Cena at Night of Champions. ****
10. Sheamus vs. Show at Hell in a Cell. ****

Very much looking forward to attending tonight's TLC PPV. Should be a lot of fun, and Cena/Ziggler has the potential to be a real show-stealer! Have a feeling it's gonna make the list.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:13 PM   #11613 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Nos hit Punk/Jericho can't be comapred to HHH/Taker. Who the heck said they could have been in the first place? Two different matches based on two completely different situations told two completely different stories.

The only matches I really compare is matches where the sames guy square off. Like HBK/Taekr WM 25 and HBK/Taker WM 26.

Not that I'm against others' opinions but holy shit the ***** being thrown at Punk/Bryan is ridiculous. The match will be forgotten in years to come. But hey, who am I to tell others what's 5 star match and what isn't?

So far here are some of my ratings for some of the year's most talked about matches:

Punk/Jericho WM ***3/4
Taker/HBK WM ***1/2
Punk/Jericho ER ****
Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan ER ****
Lesnar vs Cena ****1/2
Punk/Cena ****

I honestly can't recall any of the Punk/D-Bryan matches and I've seen OTL twice!

As for Sheamus/Show. I need to re-watch it but I could see it in my top 10. I'm still split on whether it's ***3/4 or ****
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:54 PM   #11614 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

So after seeing all this hype about how great Bryan/Punk from OTL is, I decided to watch it again now. Last time & the only time I had seen it was during the PPV itself and I enjoyed it. On a rewatch, though... not even close to the same extent.

Let's start off with the positive:
+ Crowd have their good moments, specially with the dueling "Daniel Bryan / CM Punk" chants.
+ Daniel Bryan is an excellent wrestler and as such, he does his thing every time it's his turn to be on the offense. His kicks look brutal, his submissions are executed smoothly, he has great energy, he reacts quickly with the moves and he looks like he's giving it his all.
+ Punk does a good job when it comes selling any injury he's supposed to have.
+ They get a shitload of time to work under. (23 minutes)

Now let's go to the negatives:
- The announcers are fucking AWFUL. I may have been spoiled since in the last 6 months I've only watched old Raw/SD shows from 03-05 but dammit, they sound like they don't even wanna be there. They rarely ever call any moves and talk about everything except the ring action. I understand JR did talk about the wrestler's background, how the feud came about and such during the match but Cole/Booker/Lawler continuously talk about them coming from the indies and having "great respect" for each other rather than just calling the moves. Plus Lawler truly sounds like he's this close to falling asleep. I know it's something that fans have accepted for a long time now but coming off epic matches less than a decade ago, this was such a huge fall.

- Punk's cardio looks terrible. I'm not surprised since he looks like he's never entered a gym all his life. But to get to why it relates to the match now. He's absolutely AWFUL at running because he makes it look like he's going through the motions and is training for the real match. He's JOGGING ffs. The move that bothers me the most from his arsenal is the Suicide Dive. He should take notes from his opponent here on how to execute one properly. This is something about Punk that has bothered me even when I was on the bandwagon. I just don't get all the hype about him being such a GR8 WRESTLER~!!! much less a ring technician.

- The overuse of submissions just for the fuck of it. Seriously, a lot of the first 15 or so minutes, they just spend putting each other in pointless submission moves just cause. Hell, Punk tries a Surfboard Stretch (or at least it looks like it) early on and when he fails to execute it (after having made Bryan look like an idiot for laying there for so long not doing shit), he just improvises by stomping Bryan on the back. They try so hard to make it some kind of technical masterpiece, it feels extremely forced with the submission overuse.

- Some sloppiness. The part where both are on the mat and try to headbutt each other was fucking terrible. It looks so fake, their heads barely even collide. And right before or after it, they try punching back and forth and even there, it looks terrible, specially Punk's punches. But none of it is as bad as when the Figure Four Leg Lock was locked in and Bryan got up to try punching his way out of it. They are both seated and throw some of the worst punches ever, again mostly from Punk.

- The finish is botched. It looked stupid then and still looks stupid now. The goal was clearly to do the controversial tap out/pinfall finish (this one is pretty much Edge/Benoit Part 2 except botched) but Punk is too slow and it ruined the finish. Still not enough of a problem. I mean Lesnar/Angle from WM19 is still a great match despite the botched SSP, so why would I use this as reason not to enjoy the match? Still worth bringing up.

Conclusion: *****? Hahahahaha, not in this lifetime. The negatives are a lot but there's enough positives to make this a ***1/4 for me. Admittedly, the stuff of the past which is all I've watched in the past few months might have spoiled me but the quality of this match has dropped heavily from the first time I watched it. And no, I'm not intentionally negative, I'm just honest. The Cena/Punk MITB match is far better.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:15 PM   #11615 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Finally! Someone else sees the overratedness of Punk/Bryan. Jesus Christ, I thought I was the only damn one!

I'm a Punk fan. And I am a Bryan fan. But that doesn't mean I can't point out their flaws. That doesn't mean that I can't find them to be overrated. Oh my God, they came up on the independents!!! Best wrestlaz eva!!!! No, they're not.

Punk and Bryan went out there and their indy beginnings truly shined. As you pointed out, the overuse of submissions for the fuck of it. Typical indy bullshit. Let's bend each other up like pretzels for the fuck of it and then walk it off like nothing ever happened.

The match does have its positives as well. Now that you do mentioned, I do remember Punk selling the leg and what not but honestly the match was a more subtle indy style shit fest. The only thing they didn't do was drop each other on their heads 20 times and a bunch of false finished. Then it would have been a complete indy shitfest.

Daniel Bryan and CM Punk are extremely overrated and I'm sick of this IWC mindset that once someone comes up from the indies they are miles are ahead of everyone. It's not true. Coming from the indies doesn't mean shit.

Again, I'm a fan of both guys. I like their characters and they can deliver great matches. But put them in a situation where they get to show off their roots and it shows how flawed both men are. I remember there was this one stupid spot D-Bryan did on RAW a time. A top rope double arm underhook suplex....into the yes lock. Just stupid! At least try to get a pin first. Since when the fuck did wrestling turn into street fighter and everyone's hitting combos?
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:25 PM   #11616 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Bryan is far from overrated.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:29 PM   #11617 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Dick View Post
Bryan is far from overrated.
His knowledge of holds is spot on. He's a damn good submission specialist.

But he's not the guy who could wrestle a fucking broom guy everyone makes him out to be. Just my opinion.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:49 PM   #11618 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Everything said about Punk/Bryan in regardless to submissions and things being done for the sake of doing them can be said for Benoit/Angle in my opinion.

The whole goal of working a technical match is to tell a story about both men trying to outwrestle the other and establish a limb/focus of attack that creates some drama. Them spending a lot of time trying to work each other into submissions makes sense from a wrestling and storytelling aspect. They're trying to seize control and find a target to attack in the process, a game of human chess if you will. Definitely disagree on the finish being botched. Looked clearly like they tried to protect Bryan and complete the match story with Punk being able to find a counter that Bryan couldn't react to in time. The deal with Punk tapping immediately after the count further made me think they were trying to get over that Punk more or less saved his title in the space of a second and that Bryan only lost because he didn't expect the counter and placed too much faith that his submission would win him the match.

Only issue I actually had with the finish is it did come off a little too quick. I get that with those sort of finishes the unpredictability is what they're aiming for, but it has to be timed expertly to get the desired reaction because otherwise you'll be sort of stunned at the match ending in the blink of an eye. I admire the creativity and story payoff behind the finish, but I think the difficulty of execution in timing the finish worked against them.

I also find a lot of the comments about the independent scene to be un-needed. People don't mark for both because they're from the Independent scene. They admire them because they're immensly passionate and talented performers for different reasons, and who represent what hard work, talent and dedication can reward you with in amongst a sea of wrestlers who get where they are through connections or their look as opposed to their actual talent. Bryan could have worked his entire career in Japan before coming to WWE and he'd still be adored. Its the talent and creativity in the performers that makes them popular, not simply because they're from the independent scene.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:54 PM   #11619 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkboy22 View Post
Finally! Someone else sees the overratedness of Punk/Bryan. Jesus Christ, I thought I was the only damn one!

I'm a Punk fan. And I am a Bryan fan. But that doesn't mean I can't point out their flaws. That doesn't mean that I can't find them to be overrated. Oh my God, they came up on the independents!!! Best wrestlaz eva!!!! No, they're not.

Punk and Bryan went out there and their indy beginnings truly shined. As you pointed out, the overuse of submissions for the fuck of it. Typical indy bullshit. Let's bend each other up like pretzels for the fuck of it and then walk it off like nothing ever happened.

The match does have its positives as well. Now that you do mentioned, I do remember Punk selling the leg and what not but honestly the match was a more subtle indy style shit fest. The only thing they didn't do was drop each other on their heads 20 times and a bunch of false finished. Then it would have been a complete indy shitfest.

Daniel Bryan and CM Punk are extremely overrated and I'm sick of this IWC mindset that once someone comes up from the indies they are miles are ahead of everyone. It's not true. Coming from the indies doesn't mean shit.

Again, I'm a fan of both guys. I like their characters and they can deliver great matches. But put them in a situation where they get to show off their roots and it shows how flawed both men are. I remember there was this one stupid spot D-Bryan did on RAW a time. A top rope double arm underhook suplex....into the yes lock. Just stupid! At least try to get a pin first. Since when the fuck did wrestling turn into street fighter and everyone's hitting combos?
Agreed. Now that I think about it, I enjoyed their TV matches before Wrestlemania time a lot more. They were more focused on just putting on a match rather than forcing it to be some kind of technical masterpiece. Here we get submission overkill and even though 23 minutes was a good amount, they could've trimmed it by 5 and removed some of the slow hold heavy parts early on.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:15 PM   #11620 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

There is such a thing as "trying too hard" in wrestling.
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