Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 113 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
 
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post #1121 of 20566 (permalink) Old 04-13-2012, 07:35 AM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by JoeRulz View Post
Thoughts on Taker/HHH from 28?
Enjoyable when watching the PPV live, but it's really not going to hold up on a rewatch for me. I have it at *** now and I've seen it as high as ***** and as low as a DUD. Too much cheesy drama and not enough action. Last year's match was much better.
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post #1122 of 20566 (permalink) Old 04-13-2012, 07:46 AM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Batista/HHH is probably the third best Cell match. HBK/Taker clearly ahead as the best and probably Lesnar/Taker from No Mercy, though I wouldn't be surprised if I preferred HHH/Batista on another watch. Felt like the sort of match HHH excels at no matter my general apathy towards a lot of his work, felt hate filled and truly a definitive feud ender.

HHH/Taker to me is probably even more of a divisive match than last year's, its either the pinnacle of WWE Main Event wrestling for you (i.e the acting, the story arc from last year and HBK's matches with Taker, the big finishing stretches, the emotion of HHH telling HBK to end it etc) and as a result will get a ****1/2-***** rating.....or you find it over the top and maybe trying to hard to envoke drama and story and EMOTION and you think its flawed.

I think both matches live were great viewing because you bought the nearfalls a lot more (not to mention Taker bumped like a fucking lunatic in both), but on rewatches they don't have the subtle touches of a great match in between the sequences and moves. I find Taker/HBK Wrestlemania 26 to be far and away better than either HHH/Taker match or HBK/Taker 25, I thought the storytelling and drama was expertly done in a way that it was obvious but didn't feel choregoraphed and cheesy. Maybe I'm too cynical but the dialogue in the HIAC was too over the top for me, 'END IT OR I WILL, SHAWN DON'T END IT'. I mean there's communication in matches and all that shit but I thought this went too far into trying to create the most dramatic match possible.

There's no middle ground though IMO, you either get caught up in the drama and storytelling or you find it cheesy and lacking any depth behind the moves. HBK/Taker combined the sequences with a simpler and better executed story to me and that's why I infinitely prefer their series, I mean my opinion of Michaels as a worker post 2002 isn't high at all but he's still far and away more engrossing and watchable to me than HHH.
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post #1123 of 20566 (permalink) Old 04-13-2012, 07:53 AM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Taker/HBK from WM 26 was great but i think it's overrated when people think it was better than Taker/HBK WM 25.

Taker/HBK WM 25 *****
Taker/HBK WM 26 ****1/2



J.R:"Everybody claims to be an icon and claims to be something special,and maybe they were in their day
None will Ever surpass the Undertaker in my view"
Kurt Angle:"He is our leader, and I consider Undertaker the best ever"
Shawn Michaels:"Wrestling against Undertaker was the best professional experience of my life."
Triple H:"He is The Greatest Legend in the history of this business"
Michael Cole:"The biggest Smackdown and WWE superstar of all time,the legendary Undertaker".
Mark Henry:"it's hard not to put The Undertaker in the same breath as Hogan and Rock because not only has he served more years as them, but collectively, I'm sure he's sold out and made more money than all of them."

Last edited by robertdeniro; 04-13-2012 at 07:55 AM.
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post #1124 of 20566 (permalink) Old 04-13-2012, 08:05 AM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

That is a recurring theme, I can understand the Houston crowd, the spectacle and character dynamic pulling more people in to the 25 match. However I found it closer to HHH/Taker and some indy matches in terms of both men pulling out all their biggest moves but the general story being little more than 'can HBK win'. In fairness with the Tombstone kickout they expanded upon that story and actually built intrigue into whether Taker's character was for once fearful of his opponent wanting it more. Its certainly not a spotfest or anything like that....but I find the match gets talked about for the pacing and sequences rather than the storytelling or drama. Though Taker's botched dive certainly added a lot of drama with people thinking he was legit fucked.

26 though for me still has the impressive sequences and chemistry...but its got so much more. Taker's knee buckling on Old School, it looked as legit an injury as I've seen since he sold it in a way that it was obvious it was hurt but at the same time you bought it as a legit tweak rather than him overselling it. Then of course HBK fakes him out with SCM and then works the leg knowing Taker is legit hurt, a nice callback to 25 where I'm sure HBK tried to fake an injury or something to create an opportunity. During the workover Shawn busts out the inverted figure four which he hadn't used to my recollection since the Flair feud, again putting over the importance of the match and him busting out everything in his arsenal.

Then you have the callback spot to No Way Out 2006 with HBK countering Hells Gate into the pinning position Angle won with out of the Triangle Choke, the closest thing to a botch in HBK's moonsault through the table actually adds to the match as he lands on Taker's injured knee. Then of course you get the best finish of this entire story arc: Shawn had played the role of Flair from 2 years before expertly and it all built to the finish where like Flair he knew he was done, Taker took pity as Shawn had earnt his respect from his efforts in both matches but Shawn stayed true to what Flair did at 24 and manned up and knew he'd lost and had to pay the ultimate price and goaded Taker into the mother of all Tombstones for the finish. The selling, psychology, callback spots to old matches, lack of rough execution of a couple of spots and storytelling playing off of the Flair/HBK arc was just wonderful and created enhanced depth behind all the moves.

Sadly 25 meant a lot of finishers weren't believebale near falls and the crowd certainly weren't as good as the Houston crowd (at least on TV), but there's enough depth and story behind the moves in the match for me to look past the fact that a few of the finishers weren't believeable as the finish. The story was simple and done as well as it could have, Taker put in the best performance of anyone in this entire arc with his selling and personal confliction in actually ending the match and Shawn to his credit went out on a great performance: busting out old moves and brilliantly working callback spots into some of his offence to put over the desperate situation he was in.
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post #1125 of 20566 (permalink) Old 04-13-2012, 08:19 AM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Randomness:

- Michaels/Angle from 'Mania 21 is EPIC. Fantastic match that signifies a typical, high-profiled WWE match.

- Batista/Hunter is the best Cell match. Yes.

- Bret/Diesel from the Rumble might be better than ALL of Bret's so called technical classics, bar WrestleMania X.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hohenheim of Light View Post
A question, what do people think is better? Batista/Cena from Mania 26 or Rock/Cena from Mania 28?
Rock/Cena for me.

The thing is I'm not big on Cena/Batista or anything else from WrestleMania 26, except that one masterpiece.

As you said later, Rock/Cena could have been so much better in a 20 minute match as opposed to what they got. In fact, if 10 minutes were added to Bryan/Sheamus; the entire thing would have turned out to be excellent. Personally, Rock/Cena was a big deal for me and as far as the match quality goes, I'd still say it was better than Batista/Cena. It's not saying a lot because I don't think both had enough quality, as compared to the matches that stole the show in their respective events.

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post #1126 of 20566 (permalink) Old 04-13-2012, 08:32 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Catching up on some of what's been said:

Bret/HBK Iron Man - *** MAX

Cena/Batista >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cena/Rock. Hogan/Rock was far far better than Cena/Rock too. I honestly thought Cena/Rock was pretty bad. Atmosphere was the only thing good in it, and even that didn't seem too great at points (though it is hard to tell with open air arenas on TV)

Undertaker/HHH WM 28 > WM 27

Undertaker/HBK WM 26 > WM 25
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post #1127 of 20566 (permalink) Old 04-13-2012, 08:52 AM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

How come you were de-modded?
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post #1128 of 20566 (permalink) Old 04-13-2012, 08:59 AM Thread Starter
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post #1129 of 20566 (permalink) Old 04-13-2012, 09:08 AM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Cal what are your thoughts on Batista vs HHH - HIAC
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post #1130 of 20566 (permalink) Old 04-13-2012, 09:10 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Incredible match, and one of the best HIAC matches ever... yet only the SECOND best HIAC match for that year imo lol. ****1/2 for it. Shame it all went downhill from there for Batista until his 07 feud with Undertaker.
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