Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 1005 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:30 PM   #10041 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeah1993 View Post
IDK if people don't actually like those matches then it's understandable. There's a lot of top-level HHH matches I don't actually think are top-level or really that good at all. I'm someone who thinks he's 'good', FWIW. I guess. I mean I DO think he's good, but it depends on the year and time. Good in 2000 and 2001, borderline worst wrestler in the world not good in 2002 or 2003. Not too good for most of 2004, but good in the latter parts. Good in 2005 and early 2006, not too good in DX 2006, etc. etc. He's really back and forth in quality. No Mercy 08 he has a really good match with Jeff Hardy. Next PPV another goody with Jeff at Cyber Sunday. Next PPV at Survivor Series he has the stinker WMOTYC with Kozlov.

And I like HHH a lot more than some people who have multiple ****1/2+ matches from him.
Yeah obviously but I made the point because I'm seeing posters who I know don't like or rate HHH mention him multiple times in their best matches lists.
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:40 PM   #10042 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

The power of the GAME can't be ignored lol. I reckon that if I do get around to making a list, Trips, Taker, HBK and Cena will feature very prominently with Brock, Austin, Angle, Eddie, Benoit coming in next. The thing the first bunch have in their favour is obviously longevity with all of them bar Cena having catalogues that span the entire decade while the latter bunch only cover certain years. Cena has from around 07 on lockdown lol.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:03 PM   #10043 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Yeah1993 covered it. I mean I think Foley is by far the better guy in the Rumble encounter and really lays out a match that gets HHH over as a massive star, but that match and the 10 man tag are the only two in my top 5 for 2000 where I don't think he's the better guy. He was definitely on in the January-July timeframe (because I think his August-December is pretty average-poor with no PPV match jumping out to me as good). He's marginally better than Jericho in the LMS match, but that's mainly because as the heel he's called on to make the bulk of the match interesting and engaging workover wise, and therefore a lot of the success in the match stems from his offence and Jericho's selling. I think he's better than Rock in both PPV matches, though both men work their socks off in the Ironman but a lot of HHH's tactics come off as good heel work and I definitely think his star shines brighter in that match.

He is far too inconsistent though. There's only 3 years where I'd call him above good: 2000, 2005 and 2008. He has moments in other years (2004 and off memory some parts of 2006) but for the most part he's definitely more hit than miss in those years. 2005 he's the ultimate prick heel and really works well to make Batista into the star that he is. I do think the Flair matches at the end of the year owe more to their greatness because of Flair's amazing performances as the psycho resilient veteran, but its not like HHH isn't adding to the match. Its just that I think his style compliments a performance like Flair's far better than if he was having the same match with a lesser talent, though you could argue that criticism applies to a lot of workers in their best years/matches.

2008 is perhaps the year he impresses me most, especially because outside of a handful of matches I've never thought he was close to a good babyface worker. He's in that Orton mould where there's just something off putting about him which makes it impossible for me to get invested in his matches. That being said his series with Hardy was especially impressive considering Hardy never stood out to me as someone who could belong in main event title matches that didn't involve a gimmick match or him being mangled by an Umaga/powerhouse wrestler. HHH worked really well as the company ace veteran and he and Hardy had a really good character dynamic in their series which complimented Hardy's great booking to slowly make him the next main event babyface.

I'd still be hard pressed to call HHH anything above good though when it comes to ring-work alone. In the right environment and against the right opponent he can excel and he has a presence that I can appreciate as belonging in the main event, but a lot of his matches generally do not interest me. His offence is pretty boring especially as a face, I don't get invested in a lot of his babyface matches where he's selling and building a story and truthfully I don't find him especially good as a heel worker unless he's being an ABSOLUTE PRICK in his matches. What I mean by that is I don't generally find a match where he's working heel and generally just working over a guy terribly interesting, but when he's stalling, abusing or interacting with a crowd and really being a huge prick (e.g the Eugene Summerslam match) I'm more interested.

TL;DR - Whilst HHH dominates my 2000, I still can't really call him anything above good as a worker. His style whilst trying to resemble that of the classic NWA formula just doesn't pull me into his matches and I don't find he does a lot of terribly interesting things to build a match, although I can understand why a lot of people think he should be praised more. I'll also say I really can't stand him in big storyline matches as I find he really feels forced in these 'PERSONAL' matches. Take the Lesnar match for example. Just the way they tried to sell that match as some impending massacre and HHH delivering dialogue such as 'This ain't UFC' just came off as terribly forced and laughable to me instead of how it was meant to come off. Maybe that's because my apathy towards him generally means I'll sour over what he does compared to someone I adore, like an Eddie or Regal but ehh, he's not my cup of tea.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:40 PM   #10044 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

^^^^^^^ Posts like that I appreciate fully no matter who they're about. Rational and well presented reasons why you really just don't like something or someone. Much better than the usual:

:hhh - HURR DURR HE FUKS STEPH N BURRIES EVERYBADY DURR

- HURR DURR HE CNT WRASSLE 5 MOVES OF DA DOOM

Etc lol.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:45 PM   #10045 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Segunda Caida View Post
Yeah1993 covered it. I mean I think Foley is by far the better guy in the Rumble encounter and really lays out a match that gets HHH over as a massive star, but that match and the 10 man tag are the only two in my top 5 for 2000 where I don't think he's the better guy. He was definitely on in the January-July timeframe (because I think his August-December is pretty average-poor with no PPV match jumping out to me as good). He's marginally better than Jericho in the LMS match, but that's mainly because as the heel he's called on to make the bulk of the match interesting and engaging workover wise, and therefore a lot of the success in the match stems from his offence and Jericho's selling. I think he's better than Rock in both PPV matches, though both men work their socks off in the Ironman but a lot of HHH's tactics come off as good heel work and I definitely think his star shines brighter in that match.
I'd go farther and say April-July is really his 'this guy's ON' period. When comparing Christian's 09 to HHH's 00 about two weeks ago I said this:

Quote:
I'd say it's definitely better than HHH's 2000. Helmsley only really had a hot April-July. Other than the Benoit match at No Mercy what good he do after that? Pre-April he's *involved* in some really good shit but it isn't thanks to him. He wasn't putting in Christian-level performances at the Rumble, NWO or in the Raw 5-on-5.
The Rumble match is outstanding, but it's like 85% Mick Foley. HHH was good and I don't think it's a case where you could replace him with any average wrestler, but that match was The Mick Foley Show. NWO I don't like a huge bunch to begin with nor do I think it's a top-level match. But it's a good match and Foley was still the guy in it. The 2/7 ten man tag is ten guys putting in a good collective effort but HHH didn't stand out or anything. GRANDMASTER SEXAY was probably the best guy in the match, legit. Has HHH got any TV stuff from Jan-March to check out? There's a Raw match with Kane I liked a lot where HHH bumped around for him, but IDK if that was pre-April. April-July he's got a lot of stuff and a lot matches where looks at his best. v the Rock @ BL & JD, w/Benoit v Rock/Jericho, v Jericho @ FL, v Angle v Rock on Raw which smokes their shitty PPV match, v TAKA Michinoku, etc. Post-July he's only got the Benoit match which I thought he looked really good in. Other than that the SummerSlam, Survivor Series and Armageddon matches which all kinda suck. I like HHH, and his 2000, but I don't think he or his year belongs in the Best Of anything. Plus he shagged Steph to get where he is and buried folks who he was afraid of so HE TEH SUX. :hhh

Why the fuck is HHH brought up bi-weekly in this thread and why the fuck is it so fun to talk about him? Let's talk about fucking DDP again. He had a fun match with Yuji Nagata on an episode of Saturday Night or WorldWide or something. His '98 > HHH's '00.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:46 PM   #10046 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Anyone have stars for the Ultimate Ric Flair Collection 3 Disc?

Pretty sure it's

Ric Flair vs. ... (shown in their entirety)

1. Harley Race Starrcade (11/24/83)

2. Dusty Rhodes Starrcade (11/28/85)

3. Barry Windham World Wide Wrestling (01/20/87)

4. Ricky Steamboat Clash of the Champions VI (04/02/89)

5. Ricky Steamboat WrestleWar (05/07/89)

6. Terry Funk I Quit Match Clash of the Champions IX (11/15/89)

7. Royal Rumble (01/19/92)

8. Sting Undisputed World Title Unification Clash of the Champions XXVII (06/23/94)
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:56 PM   #10047 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

HHH is a bi-weekly discussion in here for some reason. I don't know why. The reason I'd have 00 Hunter > 09 Christian is because I can't remember a single thing Christian did in 09 lol. It goes further than just ring performances for me. When I and I presume others too, talk about Triple H in 00, it's about everything he did that year and not just his ring work. As a whole package deal, there's not many things for me that can touch it tbh. And I'm honest to God struggling to remember anything Christian did in 09, at all, bar the Swagger match because it was mentioned in here recently. I'm not going to say that every match HHH had in 00 was a classic. Towards the end of the year he did begin to drop off in quality a bit, in the ring. But he still, along with the other top guys at the time, provided the most fun I've ever had watching wrestling as a fan and made it truly memorable for reasons other than just his matches. Christian on the other hand? Not so much.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:57 PM   #10048 (permalink)
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Only thing to come to mind for me with Christian 09 is.... "it's christian", lol. And that's not meant as disrespect to him in any way.
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:01 PM   #10049 (permalink)
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I can't remember anything other than the fact that he was on ECW, I think he was champion and that God awful silver belt looked fucking huge on him. That's about it.
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:15 PM   #10050 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviorBeeRad™ View Post
Anyone have stars for the Ultimate Ric Flair Collection 3 Disc?

Pretty sure it's

Ric Flair vs. ... (shown in their entirety)

1. Harley Race Starrcade (11/24/83)

2. Dusty Rhodes Starrcade (11/28/85)

3. Barry Windham World Wide Wrestling (01/20/87)

4. Ricky Steamboat Clash of the Champions VI (04/02/89)

5. Ricky Steamboat WrestleWar (05/07/89)

6. Terry Funk I Quit Match Clash of the Champions IX (11/15/89)

7. Royal Rumble (01/19/92)

8. Sting Undisputed World Title Unification Clash of the Champions XXVII (06/23/94)
1. *** 1/2ish. Really slow, old school stuff. Haven't seen it in years.
2. ?
3. **** 1/2
4. *****
5. *****
6. **** 1/4 I believe. Again, been years.
7. **** - **** 1/4
8. *** 3/4

You should be buying it right now if you don't already own it.
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