Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 101 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:05 AM   #1001 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Am I the only one who never understands why people seem to obsess about the Jericho/Kane feud from November-December 2000 originally starting from spilt coffee? Like people seem to make out like that's necessarily a bad thing but I found it one of the more simpler ways to begin a fresh feud. By chance Jericho spills coffee on Kane, Jericho being the humorous and carefree guy doesn't come off sincere in apologising and Kane is just looking for an excuse to hurt someone. Ergo Kane beats the piss out of Jericho and Jericho's pride and confidence means he keeps coming back for more rather than letting Kane getting one over on him, and boom a mini feud develops.

2000 is arguably the best year in the company's history, though I do think August-December is significantly weaker than January-July. Summerslam, Unforgiven, No Mercy, Survivor Series & Armageddon were all lacking in good-great matches with only Rock/Angle and Rock/Rikishi standing out. Can't recall much about Benoit/HHH from No Mercy but no other match from PPV or TV immediately jumps out to me. Between Royal Rumble-Fully Loaded however the quality was astounding with HHH/Cactus, the Dallas 10 man tag from 2/7, HHH/Rock Backlash & Judgement Day, HHH/Jericho Last Man Standing at Fully Loaded, HHH/TAKA on Smackdown etc. Just a stacked period.
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:07 AM   #1002 (permalink)
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I actually preferred Mortis to Kanyon, probably something to with being a complete and utter mark in 1997 and LOVING WCW/NWO Revenge. I always used Mortis in that game.

About to sit through SummerSlam 1996 for the first time in ages. I remember the main event being half way decent and the boiler room brawl being utter shite which wasn't helped by the CAMERA FEED BEING LOST (even if worked or not, it sucked). Yoko breaking the rope in the free for all is another flash back. Wish me luck.

Oh and WOOLY, I agree that the latter part of WWF's 2000 was incredibly weak in comparison to the exception New year's - Summer of 2000. It's almost as if they burned through all of their good shit too soon.

Seriously though, for those who have NEVER seen Backlash or Fully Loaded from that year, go watch one or BOTH...NOW!

As far as the coffee thing, it wasn't necessarily bad, but it was feeble in comparison to some of the other angles that were going on at the time ("I DID IT FOR THE ROCK" not being one of them). I guess that WWF felt that Kane could get a lot of heat from that feud

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Old 03-08-2013, 10:13 AM   #1003 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by WOOLCOCK View Post
Am I the only one who never understands why people seem to obsess about the Jericho/Kane feud from November-December 2000 originally starting from spilt coffee? Like people seem to make out like that's necessarily a bad thing but I found it one of the more simpler ways to begin a fresh feud. By chance Jericho spills coffee on Kane, Jericho being the humorous and carefree guy doesn't come off sincere in apologising and Kane is just looking for an excuse to hurt someone. Ergo Kane beats the piss out of Jericho and Jericho's pride and confidence means he keeps coming back for more rather than letting Kane getting one over on him, and boom a mini feud develops.

2000 is arguably the best year in the company's history, though I do think August-December is significantly weaker than January-July. Summerslam, Unforgiven, No Mercy, Survivor Series & Armageddon were all lacking in good-great matches with only Rock/Angle and Rock/Rikishi standing out. Can't recall much about Benoit/HHH from No Mercy but no other match from PPV or TV immediately jumps out to me. Between Royal Rumble-Fully Loaded however the quality was astounding with HHH/Cactus, the Dallas 10 man tag from 2/7, HHH/Rock Backlash & Judgement Day, HHH/Jericho Last Man Standing at Fully Loaded, HHH/TAKA on Smackdown etc. Just a stacked period.
Great post. Agree with everything said here.
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:17 AM   #1004 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by WOOLCOCK View Post
Am I the only one who never understands why people seem to obsess about the Jericho/Kane feud from November-December 2000 originally starting from spilt coffee? Like people seem to make out like that's necessarily a bad thing but I found it one of the more simpler ways to begin a fresh feud. By chance Jericho spills coffee on Kane, Jericho being the humorous and carefree guy doesn't come off sincere in apologising and Kane is just looking for an excuse to hurt someone. Ergo Kane beats the piss out of Jericho and Jericho's pride and confidence means he keeps coming back for more rather than letting Kane getting one over on him, and boom a mini feud develops.

2000 is arguably the best year in the company's history, though I do think August-December is significantly weaker than January-July. Summerslam, Unforgiven, No Mercy, Survivor Series & Armageddon were all lacking in good-great matches with only Rock/Angle and Rock/Rikishi standing out. Can't recall much about Benoit/HHH from No Mercy but no other match from PPV or TV immediately jumps out to me. Between Royal Rumble-Fully Loaded however the quality was astounding with HHH/Cactus, the Dallas 10 man tag from 2/7, HHH/Rock Backlash & Judgement Day, HHH/Jericho Last Man Standing at Fully Loaded, HHH/TAKA on Smackdown etc. Just a stacked period.
Anything to nitpick. It grew from the coffee too. It eventually led to Kane wanting to demolish the happy-go-lucky funny "pretty boy" rock star. Not "he spilled coffee, mentioned burned, grr mad" fiasco some tend to think. Survivor Series match was fairly solid - a tad gritty in spots. Armageddon last man standing was pretty good. I liked the program. Gave both something to do before Rumble rolled around where both had a damn near career defining night.

The late summer-winter period had a nice influx of new faces/gimmicks work out. + Austin returning. Raven & Regal showed up on the scene. Right to Censor began. Angle rose to prominence. True, match quality did take a dive on the PPVs. Entertainment remained. Doesn't hurt the Radicalz continued to earn their time in the sun. Plus, the latter months had a fun European Championship division. Champs were Saturn, Al Snow, & Regal. Sign me up. Not sure if what I'm getting at even proves I'm disagreeing with you in terms of what half of the year was strong, but I suppose I <3 2000 so much that I'll claim the entire year to have its high points even when "match for match" the latter PPVs did take a slight dip in comparison.

Ramble over. *sheesh @ me.*

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I actually preferred Mortis to Kanyon, probably something to with being a complete and utter mark in 1997 and LOVING WCW/NWO Revenge. I always used Mortis in that game.

About to sit through SummerSlam 1996 for the first time in ages. I remember the main event being half way decent and the boiler room brawl being utter shite which wasn't helped by the CAMERA FEED BEING LOST (even if worked or not, it sucked). Yoko breaking the rope in the free for all is another flash back. Wish me luck.
They were about the same for me. I marked for the man in general. Mortis ruled since I'm generally a sucker for the "cool" gimmicks on aesthetic purposes + the character had a fun late 90's backstory. Kanyon was the man himself. From the start vs & w/Raven to his eventual cocky side coming through. Heck of an underrated talent, imo.

I swear I'm the only guy who worships the Boiler Room Brawl. Match owns. Undertaker vs Foley destroy each other in a harsh surrounding for 26 minutes. YES.
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:17 AM   #1005 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Oh and WOOLY, I agree that the latter part of WWF's 2000 was incredibly weak in comparison to the exception New year's - Summer of 2000. It's almost as if they burned through all of their good shit too soon.

Seriously though, for those who have NEVER seen Backlash or Fully Loaded from that year, go watch one or BOTH...NOW!

As far as the coffee thing, it wasn't necessarily bad, but it was feeble in comparison to some of the other angles that were going on at the time ("I DID IT FOR THE ROCK" not being one of them). I guess that WWF felt that Kane could get a lot of heat from that feud
I get its not exactly something you'd want to be a staple as to how to build feuds in general, but I think the character dynamic of both rubbing the other the wrong way and immediately creating a mutual disliking of the other gets overlooked just because of the coffee circumstance. I think all the convulted and elaborate angles in the Attitude Era just has me championing something as off-handed and simple as a harmless accident launching a two month feud, rather than an elaborate and drawn out soap opera esque storyline.
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:24 AM   #1006 (permalink)
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Summerslam free for all I had completely forgotten about the "beach" scene. Todd harassing Sunny, Goldust in full gear with trunks over the top, Mero in full on cheesy goof mode Watching WWE today you would think that things had never changed.

The one GREAT thing about Unforgiven 2000 was Raven's debut. I marked out like fuck for that during the live broadcast on channel 4

Speaking of which, does anybody else (Brits) remember watching pay per views live on C4? ADVERTS, BLEEPS, BLURRING. It might have been free, but it was shit.

I get you WOOLY. I don't hate it either, but I can see why some people would find it overly cheesy. It just seemed/seems lame in comparison to the feuds involving Foley/HHH, Jericho/HHH, Rock/Benoit. Honestly, I think it suffered because it happened in a year where WWF was outstanding creatively, and not so much because it was bad. There's nothing wrong with simplicity when it's effective.

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Old 03-08-2013, 10:25 AM   #1007 (permalink)
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Not happy with the lack of love for Angle/Taker at SS 00. Underrated match. Liked it a ton on last watch:

The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle - Survivor Series 2000

Love how they set up the screwy finish right from the start, with having Angle come out looking super confident, despite being afraid of The Undertaker leading up to the match. Its one of those small things that I never really noticed until this watch, but it helps make it a whole lot better in the long run.

Angle is the champ here, with his first title defence on PPV, on the same PPV that he made his debut on just one year ago. This is also the PPV where The Undertaker made his debut, 10 years ago, and would mark The Undertaker's first one on one title match since his return earlier in the year.

Before the bell even rings, Angle goes to the outside and remains there, circling the ring awaiting the best time to enter, while The Undertaker paces up and down the ring waiting for Angle to get in so we can start this thing. Angle doesn't seem to want to get in, so The Undertaker gives him an incentive to start the match; he brings in a steel chair and tells Angle to hit him with it!

Angle wastes no time in nailing the Dead Man with the chair, and the match can officially begin now! The Undertaker's mind games come into effect now, as he just stands back up after taking the chair to the back and numerous punches to the head, and stares right back at Angle before taking him to school.

Poor Angle keeps trying to make a come back, only to be stopped by the ever dominant Undertaker. A nice change from the usual WWF match, with the heel attempting a come back only to be constantly stopped by the face. Not only is it a nice change, but also makes sense given Angle's character and The Undertaker's character at the time.

Just like their Fully Loaded match, its the legs of The Undertaker that prove to be his weakness, and allow Angle to get back in control of the match, even if its just for a few seconds. The Undertaker brawls his way out of any leg attacks, and when Angle starts throwing his own bombs right back at him, he goes to the mat with an arm bar!

Edge & Christian show up, and we assume that this is the reason Angle is confident, as they distract the referee while Angle taps out to the arm bar.

Again, the legs of 'Taker play part in allowing Angle to regain control of the match, this time for a longer period of time.

The Undertaker fights out again, and lands a chokeslam, but again E&C are there to distract the referee, allowing Angle the time to recover. Its back to the legs of 'Taker for Angle, nice of him to keep going back to what works instead of going suplex crazy .

The main theme of the match here seems to be that Angle cannot put The Undertaker down, as no matter what he does to the legs, no matter how often E&C interfere, the Dead Man keeps getting up and coming back. A perfect build to the finish IMO.

Angle keeps attacking the leg, and keeps trying to beat The Undertaker, but its just not happening. Angle knows he has a backup plan, but has been putting it off and putting it off, most likely in hopes of being able to beat 'Taker on his own. Its only when The Undertaker is about to Tombstone Angle that he finally realises he needs to go to plan B, so he rolls out of the ring, goes under the ring... and then we get the screwy finish with Eric Angle.

I remember liking this match, but I never thought it was as good as I do now. Its not a classic, and its far from their best match together, but its still fucking great. You have a great story going on throughout the match, starting with Angle being confident at the start despite not being during the build up to the match, E&C interfering, The Undertaker refusing to stay down, and finally Angle going with his backup plan when he realises nothing else will work.

Rating: ***1/2
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:27 AM   #1008 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Speaking of which, does anybody else (Brits) remember watching pay per views live on C4? ADVERTS, BLEEPS, BLURRING. It might have been free, but it was shit.
YES. Argh so frustrating. One instant I particularly remember was Big Show returning at Royal Rumble 2001, and literally as he entered they cut to an ad break. It completely ruined the moment! I was pretty happy when Sky Sports got the rights since we were already paying for it anyway.
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:28 AM   #1009 (permalink)
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*** for Undertaker vs Angle II.

Never quite kicks into the next gear needed to exceed past "pretty good" for me. Do like the finish. Angle using his intelligence. I see no faults. Would a dirty finish have been better? Nope.
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:39 AM   #1010 (permalink)
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Speaking of which, does anybody else (Brits) remember watching pay per views live on C4? ADVERTS, BLEEPS, BLURRING. It might have been free, but it was shit.
I remember those times very well yeah. I remember watching Serie 'A' highlights before WWF (at the time) came on. I think WCW was on Channel 5, right? Oh the memories
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