Is a heel supposed to draw people in because they love to boo them and see them lose, or is an effective heel supposed turn people away because they can’t stand seeing him? I’m really not sure and I’m interested to hearing you guys’ opinions.
heels are supposed to draw crowds in to see the babyface whup their ass. In the NWA Flair perfected this being the heel champ who drew in crowds from territory to territory wanting to see the local babyface hero whup his ass.
Yup - People wanted to see Hogan beat up Piper. People wanted to see Austin beat up Vince.
As the saying goes, it takes two to tango. A compelling hero beating up some jabronie isn't much a of a story. A strong and compelling hero struggling against a strong and compelling villain - that is a story and that will sell tickets.
Yes they're meant to draw people in to want to see them get their asses kicked by the face, it works on both sides. You need a heel that people (not just casual fans) actually hate (so no Owens, Jericho etc) & an effective face who people (not just casual fans) want to beat them up :shrug
They just don't really have that, we've seen how people suck Miz's balls on here but he's the closest we've got to that heel
I think they have the talent to do it, just not the booking or creative wherewithal to do it. Heel, face, tweener, jobber, it doesn't seem like they have the ability to create any characters.
An effective heel is one that can get fans to pay to see him get his ass kicked, which in turn, gets the babyface over.
However, that formula hasn't necessarily been honored over the course of this century due to credibility issues, largely pertaining to the booking of the main event heel, beginning with Triple H, as his mega heel run did fuck all to get a babyface over. And it's not his fault because, by that point, the roles had been reversed to the point that the babyface was used to get the heel over, which has been the new formula.
Uh, the heel is suppose to draw people to want to see them get their ass kicked.. That's what they say, but i've never bought a ticket to watch someone get beat up before.
To "draw" just means to generate interest - the kind of interest where people will spend their time and money on the show. Everyone and everything associated with the show is supposed to draw. There's the pyro to start the show, the announcers, the vignettes, the recaps, the jobbers, the faces, the heels, the recycled authority story-lines, etc. It's all supposed to encourage us to spend time and money on their show. Everyone and everything in the WWE is supposed to draw.
Ric often gets mentioned in these type of convos and for very good reason. He found that balance. He was that guy that people wanted to see lose the title because they couldn't stand him, but at no point did they ever see him as an unworthy champion. When he wasn't champion often time fans demanded that he be champion again as he made it so awesome to watch the faces chase his title. No one has ever been better at getting faces over and no one ever will be. So yeah, a great heel draws people in that want to see them lose while at the same time hoping to get babyfaces over that will draw on the opposite end of the spectrum.
Yes. The heel's job is to make people pay for a chance to watch him get beaten, while the babyface's job is to be the guy that people want to see give the beating.
The difference is with merch. Heels aren't (or at least weren't in the past) expected to be big merchandise movers. They're the bad guy. You'd want people to show support for the babyface and wear their shirts instead. Of course, that's changed in recent times. WWE has shirts for everyone from Kevin Owens to Jinder Mahal now, though babyfaces still tend to be the top sellers.
Of course. Heels are meant to make you hate them and build sympathy for the baby face. You need effective, drawing heels to build an interest in the feud and make people want to see the face win.
Of course in modern WWE the problem is all the heels are hapless jobbers and the baby faces are all unstoppable.
I just think in many cases WWE has no clue what the audience is and just do things like unaware idiots. Like New Day originally was the worst thing imaginable, but was salvaged. Breezango was basically the next "Boleive Squad" of Bo, Axel, and whatever that stupid group of 4 was, and basically they all just next incarnations of Spirit Squad. But Breezango's latest has been working for them.
WWE too busy worrying about PPV's that they forego good television. Add in WWE is so out of touch with modern society, modern fans, and etc. that it is only through the will power of great workers that people even care. Basically its been "watching the burning ship sinK" since maybe 08ish, I know since 2013, but others describe things as same.
1. You are only a draw if you are positioned to draw.
2. If you are a draw and not positioned to draw, its an accident, and probably lightning in a bottle.
3. People will watch..
who they care about/likable
angles
wrestlers with physical, verbal, or intangible charisma
monsters
funny/comedic
No one wants to see a superman movie where the bad guy is mr myzylplk. They want to see supes vs Darkseid. No one wants to see bats vs Joe chill, they want joker. Avengers vs the frightful four? Pass give them Thanos or the kree. Etc
Is a heel supposed to draw people in because they love to boo them and see them lose, or is an effective heel supposed turn people away because they can’t stand seeing him? I’m really not sure and I’m interested to hearing you guys’ opinions.
An effective heel is supposed to make you want to punch him in the face. Miz is a great example of this.
If you want to change the channel every time a heel makes his appearance, then he´s doing something wrong (for me, that´s a guy like Bray Wyatt, or Seth Rollins during his long, boring title reign).
Yes and No. A good heel can't really work by himself because you are not supposed to like him... but he will draw if he can bring in the best of the face he goes against because you want to see this big match, you want to see this war and you want to see the heel go down.
I think the best exemple recently is The Miz vs Dolph Ziggler. Nobody really cared about Dolph Ziggler before but thanks to The Miz being a good worker, people were cheering for Dolph Ziggler and this is what a good heel does, you forget about all and you suddenly care about his opponent, you are not sure if he will win but a little part of you can't help but wish for it to happen.
The problem is that the WWE doesn't create that hope, their heels are either useless wrestlers who can barely win matches or they are freakin' Godzilla and simply destroy anybody they face and you don't see the interest in watching the next match because you know they will win ( that's why I would rather watch Slammiversary than Great Balls of Fire. Samoa Joe vs Brock Lesnar could be great but knowing it could be a squash doesn't makes me want this )
And we also have the problem of the fans or the crowd who don't want to buy in a story now and they don't want to hate something because if they do, it's bad. They would rather pretend to hate when they don't actually hate the character and that give us " heels " who would rather pander to the crowd, have flashy moves rather than let the face have a spotlight
Its actually a kind of chicken/egg discussion for me...
Overall I would say the answer is no, the faces are the ones who are supposed to be the "draws" selling tickets/getting people to watch to see them triumph, in the same sense as you go to super hero movies to see the heroes win in the end, BUT.....
without great villians the heroes are not as interesting so in a way, yes, the heels are supposed to be a draw at that level at least.
I'd say so. Older fans(or at least that 20-40 demo) tend to gravitate toward the heels since they are usually the most entertaining, while kids tend to cheer for the "always do the right thing" babyface.
The problem is that the WWE tend to do this thing where they see a heel get super popular and think that means they have to turn them into a babyface, while in the process completely changing their personality which is what got them over in the first place(cough*SETH*cough). Luckily they kept most of AJ's cocky attitude after his face turn. I couldn't handle it if he went pure vanilla.
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