What defines a good performer? - Wrestling Forum: WWE, Impact Wrestling, Indy Wrestling, Women of Wrestling Forums

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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 03:17 AM Thread Starter
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What defines a good performer?

I ask this because really it feels like so many people discredit guys like Goldberg, Strowman, Hogan for being limited unrounded wrestlers when it was never necessary for them to be.


Take Hogan for example. Put Hogan into todays day and age, he'd die faster than Jinder's impending push(foreshadowing) but for his time, he was incredible. There was a reason people loved him as he was the perfect wrestler for his era. The skills he had were perfect for what that era needed. So why is Hogan discredited so much for being a poor in ring worker when he never needed to be a good in ring worker to succeed? Its like Einstein's quote "if you judge a fish a by its ability to climb a tree it would forever live its life believing itself to be stupid". Whats the difference than current wrestling fans judging a past wrestler heavily on a criteria that was more or less irrelevent for that time?

For a far more recent example, take Goldberg. In WCW, he was brilliant. He might've been limited as in ring worker and a promo but again he never needed to be. So why do fans judge him for his lack of abilities that he never needed to get over in the first place? It makes no sense but if you ask the average internet fan, he'll tell you that Goldberg is a horrible performer whos a miracle of marketing. You need something to try and market in the first place, you can't try and market crap.

Basically, it boils down to this. Why do so many wrestling fans rate wrestlers on their overall ability instead of the ones that matters? Its like discrediting a silent badass wrestler for his promo work.

It isn't just a harmless thing as well. Fans grow attached to wrestlers who they think have talented but so many other limited workers have talent too. There just not as well rounded. Going back to Goldberg, from a casual fan's perspective or even or storytelling perspective, there was nothing wrong with his return. It was just fan's obsessions with only cheering for guys that are normally considered talented not realizing guys like Goldberg are talented in their own way.

And this brings me to Strowman. I guess we can agree that most of us like Strowman. But he has been protected by booking heavily and by being put against the greatest heel of all time, Roman Reigns. Most of us would not say he is overall a very talented wrestler. I guarantee once this guy gets pushed over smark favourites he is gonna get wrecked by so many fans for being an untalented big guy whos only there because he is big. Not realizing that being big and imposing is its own skill and talent.

So um rant over. I just wanted to challenge the perceptions of some fans who love to rate a wrestler on his overall ability instead of the skills that do matter relating to his character. I just think that if you're playing a silent monster character, then how big and imposing you are should be consideres as more important than in ring skill or promo ability. On the other side, an underdog character should not be discredited because he has an ordinary look(cough Sami Zayn cough)
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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 03:27 AM
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Re: What defines a good performer?

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Take Hogan for example. Put Hogan into todays day and age, he'd die faster than Jinder's impending push
Completely disagree, Hulk Hogan had arguably the most natural charisma out of any wrestler to ever step foot in a ring. He was already the #1 babyface in the country before he even returned to the WWF and won the title from Sheik. You don't stay over in three decades with wrestling appealing to various different demographics and going different directions without figuring something out, he'd adjust fine today
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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 03:33 AM Thread Starter
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Re: What defines a good performer?

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Originally Posted by Magneto22 View Post
Completely disagree, Hulk Hogan had arguably the most natural charisma out of any wrestler to ever step foot in a ring. He was already the #1 babyface in the country before he even returned to the WWF and won the title from Sheik. You don't stay over in three decades with wrestling appealing to various different demographics and going different directions without figuring something out, he'd adjust fine today
Thats the thing though. In this day and age, fans refuse to support guys unless they have good in ring skill. Hogan would bomb once people realize that he can't wrestle as well as the other guys which is completely unfair to him. As for charisma, thats rediculously subjective. Just imagine Hogan debuting in NXT. He won't get over as a babyface without in ring skill. His charisma disappears under a blanket of hate and chants of you can't wrestle.


The thing with charisma is need you meed a chance to show it. Fans these days would never give Hogan the chance to fully show it much less accept it.
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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 03:37 AM
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Re: What defines a good performer?

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Originally Posted by Laughable Chimp View Post
Thats the thing though. In this day and age, fans refuse to support guys unless they have good in ring skill.
This is clearly untrue. Take Jinder and Braun for example. They're nothing special and people are seemingly warming up to them because presence and other stuff that I can't explain in Jinder's case. Braun may not be bad in the ring but he's not going to put on classics.

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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 03:41 AM
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Re: What defines a good performer?

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Originally Posted by Laughable Chimp View Post
Thats the thing though. In this day and age, fans refuse to support guys unless they have good in ring skill. Hogan would bomb once people realize that he can't wrestle as well as the other guys which is completely unfair to him. As for charisma, thats rediculously subjective. Just imagine Hogan debuting in NXT. He won't get over as a babyface without in ring skill. His charisma disappears under a blanket of hate and chants of you can't wrestle.


The thing with charisma is need you meed a chance to show it. Fans these days would never give Hogan the chance to fully show it much less accept it.
Hogan adjusted fine when he needed to work better and focus on the quality of the match. Have you watched his work in Japan? It's night and day, if a 30 year old Hogan dropped into WWE today he would have more workrate oriented matches (vs Tenryu, vs Muta) than big fight feel matches (vs Rock, vs Warrior). You're downplaying his in ring ability and making him sound like he's a Rosa Mendes in the ring, he was more than passable on average and was very good in front of audiences that would rather see technical and "workrate" oriented matches.

You don't have to be AJ Styles in the ring to get over, look at how people warmed up to Strowman so quickly and Hogan has 100x more natural charisma than he does (with no disrespect to Strowman whatsoever).
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 03:43 AM
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Re: What defines a good performer?

It's all subjective, but for me:

Heels are good performers if they can make you hate them enough to pay to see them get beaten/recieve their comeuppance, while making you feel sympathy and respect for the babyface during the match.

Babyfaces are good performers if they can talk you into a building, make you want to buy their merch and watch every week to hopefully see them succeed and follow their journey.

But most importantly all truly great performances need to be able to make me suspend my disbelief to the point that I forget what I'm watching is a work. Obviously that's difficult with bad booking, but it can be done. The bulk of the Leanar va Cena ER2012 match is the perfect example of all of this for me. Brock was so brutal he even managed to get Chicago rooting for Cena. Incredible match. I couldn't care less about "this is awesome" style spot fest finisher spamming kick out matches, unless those involved are strong characters who can create a good build up. Go watch cirque de solei if you want to see that shit

This extends to mic work too, as to me a good promo is one that feels either earnest, sincere or passionate (why I feel Daniel Bryan is an underrated promo, because he actually knew how to connect with the fans and build a strong rapport through his words and his honest delivery). I feel that there are too many promos now which are considered "good" that are more like bad village play level goofy recitals. Cackling cheesy Bray Wyatt at his worst is a good example of this, although he's intriguing with good material and when booked to have a strong focus. No fucks given robotic Orton is also terrible for different reasons, one of many reasons why I hated that feud. Instead wrestlers should be trying to convey real aggression, hatred, passion, etc. This is why I truly enjoyed the Cena promo work vs Miz and the Miz/Ambrose segment last Monday. Real fire.
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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 03:53 AM
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Re: What defines a good performer?

Simple, the ability to entertain.

These days you get overrated scumbags that are bland, who don't understand psychology, have horrible voice cords, can't sell for shit, bring no heat, rip off moves from more talented stars, injure other wrestlers regularly, and can't get over to that next level, no matter how much or how hard the company pushes them.



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Last edited by One Winged Angel; 04-21-2017 at 03:59 AM.
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 03:54 AM Thread Starter
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Re: What defines a good performer?

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Originally Posted by TheLapsedFan View Post
This is clearly untrue. Take Jinder and Braun for example. They're nothing special and people are seemingly warming up to them because presence and other stuff that I can't explain in Jinder's case. Braun may not be bad in the ring but he's not going to put on classics.
I don't think people are liking Jinder as much as you think. Some people are really against it while others are just pleasantly surprised that he is getting a title push and are willing to go along with it for now. Its not like Jinder had a huge fanbase or he did something to get fans on his people. Most of his fans are of the "okay I never expected that lets see what WWE does with him now" kind. Unless Jinder can keep or better yet improve his performances, he is gonna flop. Again, have him beat a smark favourite cleanly and you'll see his true popularity.

Braun is a very very special case. He is a miracle of creative and unlike most other guys, what he brings to the table is so unique that fans are willing to overlook his lack of in ring skill. Also, he was booked to destroy Roman Reigns multiple times. If that does not get fans on board with you I don't know what will. People forget that when he was in the Wyatt family, he had a lot of detractors as well. People were insulted that Vince was willing to put him in a match against the undertaker consideringg his supposed ik ring skill. So whats changed since then? He got better in ring, and got booked to destroy Roman Reigns. Thats it.
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 03:57 AM Thread Starter
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Re: What defines a good performer?

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Originally Posted by One Winged Angel View Post
Simple, the ability to entertain.
Oh my god you've actually gone full in on the Mahal train. I'm guessing your favourite wrestler's rakings arw now

1-Jinder Mahal
2-Kenny Omega
3-AJ Styles

I never thought I'd see the day someone other than Omega would take that top spot but hardbody Mahal has done it.
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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 03:59 AM
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Re: What defines a good performer?

Ability to make a good match (AJ Styles) and segment (The Miz) with anyone, no matter how shitty the opponent is.
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