Why crowds aren't emotionally invested... - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Indy Wrestling, Lucha Underground, Women of Wrestling Forums

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post #1 of 85 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
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Why crowds aren't emotionally invested...

Was thinking about the WWE and the lack of ratings and general disinterest when I see people in the crowd and I have a few suggestions that would likely boost overall enthusiasm from live (and TV) audiences.

Stop beating a dead horse - No I don't mean Charlotte Flair. I was reading a review of Hell in a Cell 2016 and it seems that the company believe a PPV once a year dedicated to a gimmick is going to get over. Make the bloody matches mean something! Back in the day Hell in a Cell was deemed to be such a huge deal that everyone had to tune in to watch it. Even as recently as 2005 with Batista vs HHH. Now they have HIAC matches with no real heat or build. It is just a cage without any heat. Why should anyone care?

Insulting the crowd intelligence - Why does the injury/stretcher angle no longer work? Because everyone knows that the person is going to get up in a moment and carry on the match. Take, for example, Sasha Banks' stretcher tease from the same PPV. Nobody bought it because they all knew a match wouldn't end like that so why do it? It devalues the whole thing when you don't follow through. I did like Nakamura vs Joe feud because they actually had the injury angle and Nakamura was taken off TV with Joe continuing to press the issue on TV. This is not hard!

Desensitising the audience - nowadays everyone knows that a win is unlikely to occur through something simple. The 'big' matches are 80% filler with a finisher heavy, kick out crazed ending. The audience knows that until the kick outs start the match won't end so they turn off. Can guys produce a 'classic' without resorting to finisher heaven? I know The Revival etc have been great at the tag team matches but the singles bouts for the big belt are fairly predictable.

Finishing finishers - on the subject of finishers, they need to protect the damn things. I know people kick out of it a lot but Okada's dropkick - whilst simple - is protected and treated as a huge deal within NJPW. A DROPKICK! I am a huge fan of roll ups and other pins sequences near the end of a match because it provides a moment of 'oh shit is that it?' escapism. TEASE finishers - why hit them when you can work a whole match around teasing a finisher? Use the rope breaks. Use managers (there's a novel idea!) to pull the bottom rope from the face.

Why should I watch this match? - I know what I watch isn't going to be special because the same match will be put on RAW in a few weeks. If I think that I will get another chance to see the match in a few weeks why would I watch this one? Prime example being when Warrior and Hogan had ONE singles match in a year on PPV. The rest of the time they used tag team stipulations and other ways to tease a blow out without having the pair go head to head, one on one. Have a title change, get a reason for the face to go after another opponent then go back to the chase once that has been resolved. Undertaker vs Michaels (HIAC) is a prime example, Undertaker goes after Kane and Michaels moves on. It is okay not to have 50/50 booking.

Sorry for my rant and appreciate the patience! Any other ideas about how WWE can make things better (booking). Rather than say 'they need better booking' it would be good to get some examples or ideas. I know the company can do this stuff and its so frustrating that they just don't see to have the will to bother. It seems clear from some employee's tweets that they think win/loss records don't matter. Goldberg/Lesnar prove this not to be the case IMO.
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post #2 of 85 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael_3165 View Post
Was thinking about the WWE and the lack of ratings and general disinterest when I see people in the crowd and I have a few suggestions that would likely boost overall enthusiasm from live (and TV) audiences.

Stop beating a dead horse - No I don't mean Charlotte Flair. I was reading a review of Hell in a Cell 2016 and it seems that the company believe a PPV once a year dedicated to a gimmick is going to get over. Make the bloody matches mean something! Back in the day Hell in a Cell was deemed to be such a huge deal that everyone had to tune in to watch it. Even as recently as 2005 with Batista vs HHH. Now they have HIAC matches with no real heat or build. It is just a cage without any heat. Why should anyone care?

Insulting the crowd intelligence - Why does the injury/stretcher angle no longer work? Because everyone knows that the person is going to get up in a moment and carry on the match. Take, for example, Sasha Banks' stretcher tease from the same PPV. Nobody bought it because they all knew a match wouldn't end like that so why do it? It devalues the whole thing when you don't follow through. I did like Nakamura vs Joe feud because they actually had the injury angle and Nakamura was taken off TV with Joe continuing to press the issue on TV. This is not hard!

Desensitising the audience - nowadays everyone knows that a win is unlikely to occur through something simple. The 'big' matches are 80% filler with a finisher heavy, kick out crazed ending. The audience knows that until the kick outs start the match won't end so they turn off. Can guys produce a 'classic' without resorting to finisher heaven? I know The Revival etc have been great at the tag team matches but the singles bouts for the big belt are fairly predictable.

Finishing finishers - on the subject of finishers, they need to protect the damn things. I know people kick out of it a lot but Okada's dropkick - whilst simple - is protected and treated as a huge deal within NJPW. A DROPKICK! I am a huge fan of roll ups and other pins sequences near the end of a match because it provides a moment of 'oh shit is that it?' escapism. TEASE finishers - why hit them when you can work a whole match around teasing a finisher? Use the rope breaks. Use managers (there's a novel idea!) to pull the bottom rope from the face.

Why should I watch this match? - I know what I watch isn't going to be special because the same match will be put on RAW in a few weeks. If I think that I will get another chance to see the match in a few weeks why would I watch this one? Prime example being when Warrior and Hogan had ONE singles match in a year on PPV. The rest of the time they used tag team stipulations and other ways to tease a blow out without having the pair go head to head, one on one. Have a title change, get a reason for the face to go after another opponent then go back to the chase once that has been resolved. Undertaker vs Michaels (HIAC) is a prime example, Undertaker goes after Kane and Michaels moves on. It is okay not to have 50/50 booking.

Sorry for my rant and appreciate the patience! Any other ideas about how WWE can make things better (booking). Rather than say 'they need better booking' it would be good to get some examples or ideas. I know the company can do this stuff and its so frustrating that they just don't see to have the will to bother. It seems clear from some employee's tweets that they think win/loss records don't matter. Goldberg/Lesnar prove this not to be the case IMO.
You wrote a lot, but my friends and I are enjoying the show.
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post #3 of 85 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 08:40 PM
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Re: Why crowds aren't emotionally invested...

Stories aren't being told. What is there to invest in?
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post #4 of 85 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 08:54 PM
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Re: Why crowds aren't emotionally invested...

I think it's because the crowd never gets what they want, and it's tiring. It also teaches them/us to not get excited. Or sometimes we get what we want, but it's in between mountains of crap we don't want. One example is we get what we want in an Owens title win. Fucking awesome (for most, I understand some aren't a fan of his). But then we get weeks and weeks of seeing him act like a bitch to Roman. Most of us want to see Owens get a clean, brutal and dominant win over Reigns at the Rumble. Where it's clear Owens is kayfabe stronger and tougher, more badass, etc. But we will not get that. And that is tiring and especially over time it adds up to crowds not being as emotionally invested, because if they were to be emotionally invested they'd get duped. It'd be a waste or a heartbreak.

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post #5 of 85 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 08:58 PM
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Re: Why crowds aren't emotionally invested...

The people who pay money to go to the shows and then sit there completely uninterested (or even worse try to 'hijack') the show are part of the problem. This product will continue being awful as long as you give them your money. Simple as that.
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post #6 of 85 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 09:03 PM
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Beating a dead horse, Hell in a cell should be a match at a PPV, not a PPV. PPV main events shouldn't be over done on the weekly shows, once the matches are announced, they should not face one another in singles competition until the PPV. As long as faces are booed and heels are cheered, fans will not get behind the wrestlers.
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post #7 of 85 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 09:05 PM
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Re: Why crowds aren't emotionally invested...

The WWE treats it's own product as a joke and the crowd has reacted accordingly, they don't really care anymore.

Add to that over producing, scripting, over exposure, terrible commentary and dozens of other things.
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post #8 of 85 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 09:06 PM
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Re: Why crowds aren't emotionally invested...

Because with so many hours of tv they have to make rematches after rematches. That added to their incoherent long term booking (Y2b beats AJ at Wrestlemania, next day AJ becomes number 1 contender; Rey wins the rumble in 2006 but has toput that spot on theline against Orton in noway out. What's the point in watching the rumble?) leads to winning, losing and being champion not meaning any shit
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What is it with NJPW marks invading the WWE section with non WWE related threads?


Go to your own section! The ones who care about NJPW already watch. If the others cared they would watch too, but maybe, just maybe, not everyone has the same taste and is looking for the same thing in a wrestling show.


You look like jehovah witnesses knocking on people's doors.


I don't hate New Japan, but you guys are fucking obnoxious sometimes!

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post #9 of 85 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 09:35 PM
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Re: Why crowds aren't emotionally invested...

The crowds ain't helping any, either. The Zayn/Braun story was set up perfectly for Zayn to get major crowd support, but all the crowd could do was chant for tables during the climax of the story. So while the WWE isn't exactly putting on amazing shows, don't act like the crowd isn't full of shit themselves.

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post #10 of 85 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 09:44 PM
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Re: Why crowds aren't emotionally invested...

It also has to do a lot with the crowds just being kids woman and mostly snowflakes .. the society just isn't as loud anymore ..

During the AE the crowds where mostly young drunk men who just had fun and that alone made them get more invested.. that's why cities like Chicago, New York and others still have electric crowds because most in attendance there are grown up guys left from the AE

If the WWE would stick to 10 cities the whole year, trust me, they would improve the product a lot and get more viewers. Why? Well, lets say you are skipping through the channels and nothing cool is on mondays and you start watching Raw. A pumped up crowd can make the viewing experience so much more fun and it might keep you around where as if you see a dead crowd you might think, why should I care then?

not removing until:

-John Cena turns heel

-the chair match is called Hardcore match again

-Shane Mcmahon returns

Last edited by notalius; 01-11-2017 at 09:46 PM.
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