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Jim Ross on people criticizing WWE, Reigns Vs HHH predictability and NXT

6K views 64 replies 39 participants last post by  Asmodeus 
#1 · (Edited)
Jim Ross spoke to Ring Rust Radio recently for an interview and answered some interesting questions from fans.

Do you think fans are justified when they critique WWE as they do or should they be more forgive before judging or criticizing the product?

"It's a different day and a different time. You can't judge the things that are happening in today's world of pro wrestling by yesterday's rules. With social media and the information flow, fans have more information on what really goes on than they ever had at any time in the history of the business. Sometimes it's frustrating because people pick the strangest hills to die upon. They get on a point and they belabor the same points over and over and over again. We never know with the social media mystique how old these people are saying these things. It could be a 10- or 12-year-old kid talking, but we never know. I always tell people don't get your drawers in a wad over pro wrestling creative. Don't get your blood pressure up and ruin your day or affect your life because you are not happy with pro wrestling creative. There are many more things to be concerned about than a finish in a pro wrestling match. Enjoy it, embrace it. I don't have a problem with people critiquing things. If you are an entertainer and in the public eye, then you should have thick skin. I was told a while ago that I had no entertainment value and I was boring. I don't have any idea who told me that, but I didn't even block them."

Something we've discussed a lot lately with WrestleMania coming up is predictability within WWE's booking. We all feel like Reigns vs. HHH at WrestleMania with Reigns coming out on top is a given, the predictability factor is something that could lead to backlash from the fans. So, how does WWE go about balancing unpredictability while still telling a good, logical story as it relates to Reigns vs. HHH or any other feud for that matter?


"Most people have that predictability gene and to be able to see things coming. It's never been a kick in the nads to be predicable. If you think of any major territory that had a babyface as the star, they won almost 99 percent of every blow off match since I was a little kid watching wrestling. I would say when you have the babyface versus the hot heel in the blow off match, that my money would always be on the babyface. Most promoters like to have the heels get heat and the babyface finally, by never quitting and never giving up on the audience, win in the end. I have fewer issues with predictability than most. I like it when they do throw a curve at us and book something that we are not expecting. Even though it may not be the best thing for the big picture or even though it may be next to impossible to execute, let's do that.

I don't have big issues on how that can all work out. I booked an angle on my Ross Report this week, just for the hell of it and just for fantasy booking. I had Roman Reigns leave WrestleMania as the champion with a whole bunch of unforeseen things going on, that would launch him to the next level. It would be him aligning himself with Vince, and Vince thinking Triple H is getting too big for his britches. Vince sees Triple H and his hot new brand of NXT taking away some of the sizzle and attention from Raw and SmackDown. So even though Triple H is in line to take over the company someday, it's not today. Vince sets up a thing for Reigns to very subtly win the Triple Threat match which he is going to get booed out of the building with Lesnar and Ambrose in the same match. It doesn't take a sage to figure that one out. Then you get to WrestleMania without knowing any of this stuff has been going on since they don't tape it, it's like a secret. Surprise. It's not predicable. Then at WrestleMania, you have Triple H vs. Reigns, Reigns has the Rock in his corner to neutralize Vince and all his henchmen without realizing the biggest henchmen is his cousin Reigns. With Vince backing up Triple H and having him feel confident he is leaving WrestleMania as the champion. During the match, you have Reigns and Vince screw Hunter, Reigns goes over, Rock comes in and says what the hell, Superman punch, spear, down goes the Rock, Reigns is the champion and he kicks the Great One's ass. Reigns leaves, Vince is left preening over his creation when the Rock makes a little bit of a comeback, and end the show with Vince getting a Rock Bottom and a People's Elbow. Roman Reigns is Vince's boy and Roman Reigns is going to be basking off the glow, flying on the corporate plane, being Vince's right hand man and being the guy that put Triple H in his place. There are endless stories you could continue with from there, but in the meantime you have made yourself a red hot heel people would enjoy booing. That would be one way of doing it that would not be as predictable as some would think. I'm not concerned with predictably. Are you going to watch WrestleMania? I know I am going to, so it doesn't really effect if people will watch or not.

I think the predictability is a topical thing in my opinion as long as they focus on doing things right, fundamentally sound, logical, and based in reality. When you find yourself writing in a reality based atmosphere, then the surprise and little things that some people may want more of come about organically. Their biggest focus should be on getting new talent over and doing things right. They shouldn't be going out of their way to surprise people whatsoever, that's just me and my opinion."


You were a big part of NXT early in its development, and it's a brand that's obviously grown by leaps and bounds over the past couple years due to the WWE Network. Looking back, did you ever have any inkling that it would become as big as it has, and also, what do you think the future holds for NXT? What's the ceiling?

"Paul Levesque and his staff I can't give enough credit to. William Regal for the scouting and tireless efforts he endures. He is really good at that and facilitates for guys that three or four years ago wouldn't even have a chance to have a sandwich in the WWE much less to be signed and have a chance to make an impact. Paul has done a real phenomenal job. I think he has looked at it and built it like an old school territory in some ways. When we were first talking about it, my administration was doing open camps out in Louisville, Cincinnati, and Memphis. We had a relationship with Rick Bassman out in LA who did a nice job for us no question. The key was with those schools was they ran live events. If you are in a wrestling camp, that is a great way to learn fundamentals. At some point though, you have to get in front of a paying audience. Even if it's 50 of them, 25 of them, if they paid .50 or .25 cents, you have to wrestle and perform in front of a live crowd. Going on the road with NXT has been phenomenal and it's a much bigger deal than people have made it out to be. You got to keep your eye on the Indies and snatch up the best of the Indies as much as you can. You aren't going to hurt anyone's feelings because they want to come up anyways and get that chance to make big money and be a part of WrestleMania. You got to keep the Indies scouted and scoured and sign good people. Find the good athletes, the ones that can tell a story, and ones that's don't have issues in the locker room. Some of these guys you have in the system now aren't getting any younger. So what do you do with Balor, with Joe, and all these guys that have been in the Indies for years and now they are in their mid to late 30s? You have to fish or cut bait. Who do you restock the shelves with then they are gone? You have to keep scouting and recruiting those Indies and let Jerry Briscoe go out there and continue to sign some of these amateur studs. If you sign five maybe you get one solid one. If you sign twenty people and you get four or five keeps out of them, you will have a hell of a year. We have had some incredible years there. We had one class that had Brock Lesnar, John Cena, Dave Batista, Randy Orton, and Shelton Benjamin in it. Ironically, the guy's name I mentioned last was probably the best pure athlete in the group. You can't get lucky like that all the time but we got lucky that time. Granted we did get some breaks, but we worked our asses off to get them. Hiring The Rock, Austin, and Foley, hiring two cast offs no one wanted anymore. Rock hadn't even had a match when we signed him. Edge and Christian were indie wrestlers up in Ontario, maybe 200 pounds between them. You have to trust your guts and instincts, look inside someone's heart, see their talent and wish for the best. They have to keep recruiting and making new stars. The biggest challenge the company has right now, is creating new stars on a regular basis. Then you have to have the next level to roll those new brands out to and show them to the world. You only have one shot to make that first impression. You can't drop them out of midair otherwise the audience will crap on them. They have to be debuted with some impact and a roll out plan. I think the future of NXT is exceptionally good. They are a great anchor for the network. I would buy the WWE network just for NXT. Even though I watch other things on there like the PPVs and big events, but NXT is worth $9.99 a month to me. I am very high on the brand, the concept, the system, their instructors and coaches, the guest instructors to help get new perspectives and expertise. When the new stars are ready they have to have a plan. You can't just be drafted to a NFL team with position unknown. Are you a quarterback or a nose tackle? I have to know what you are and what we are going to do with this guy. People have to be ready and sign off on this is what we are going to do with this talent and give them the best chance to impress us. If they can't, we chalk it up to calculated risk and tell them thank you very much and the next man or woman up."
 
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#11 ·
Why wouldn't it be? HHH is more over as a face now than Reigns, makes perfect sense to switch them. You can run that angle with Reigns and Vince vs HHH and after that, launch straight into Rollins vs Reigns, by then Ambrose is ready to go, Owens is ready to go, AJ too, it makes perfect sense.
 
#3 ·
That was a lot of words basically saying "Shut up and watch".
 
#41 · (Edited)
Except if you listen to Ross on a regular basis, that is clearly not what he is saying at all.

He is heavily critical of WWE's booking, yet massively supportive of WWE as a business.

He is also heavily critical of "outsiders" to the business of wrestling critiquing the booking, yet massively supportive of those same people being able to critique the end product, the televeision show.

Jim Ross is no contradiction, and he does not mince words.

For him, it is all about nuances. Looking at his body of work post-WWE, you will see that he holds both support, and critique, in equal regards, and considers them both healthy for the wrestling business to move forwards.
 
#4 ·
He might as well just come out and admit that it doesn't matter what we think, what we chant, who we cheer or boo, or whatever the fuck have you, the E's still gonna do whatever the fuck it damn well pleases, don't get why this seems to be so hard.
 
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#13 ·
I actually really like the way JR would book the main event at WM32. A Reigns heel turn, especially of the corporate variety, would be very refreshing as it is, in my opinion, cringe-worthy watching him in the role he's currently playing. A smug, suit-wearing, "fuck you fans for turning on me" corporate champion - that hopefully wouldn't be booked like a pussy - would be refreshing. Then, eventually, after having him put on some good matches, pick up some big wins and (hopefully) earning some respect from the fans, he turns on the Authority.

Could be great if booked well and allowed to simmer long enough before the face turn.
 
#20 ·
More authority, evil owner SHIIIIT.

Ross is a dinosaur like me, who remembers a time where the title, and top face were the main angle. Its been almost 20 years. The runs of 3 top stars and gearing up for a 4th, with the evil owner stuff.

Staleness due to age. Its one thing if it aged like fine wine. This is aging like shit.
 
#24 ·
Someone brought this up earlier, they said that WWE struggles to get people to love the good guys and hate the bad guys. That right there is the most factual statement I've seen on this forum. This company makes some of the bad guys more relatable than the good guys, and it's weird because you have a guy like Seth Rollins(who was a pretty good heel by the way) that you can obviously tell the crowd wants to cheer him, but he's your top heel. Then on the opposite side you have Roman Reigns who the crowd obviously wants to hate, but yet he's your top face...if they did that double turn right there the product gets a little better. Now I'm not saying turn every person based on how the crowd reacts but in this case it's necessary.
 
#65 ·
They refuse to see the difference in good and bad changing. Good is a guy that's conflicted, ambiguous. Bad is a guy that's a sell out, a shill. There's still good and bad, but there are never gonna be pure babyfaces that are company made anymore. Unless the E gets behind some schmo doing a DBry social media campaign, nobody will go with that. They're all too "Smart." Which is a laugh in and of itself, but that's what they need to keep exploiting.

Oh, Daniel Bryan, New Age Jesus, shining light ascending to Wrestling Heaven, we were rebels, once, who bought your shirts and put money in Vince's pocket. Where is the new version of you that will guide us to new faux-rebellion?
 
#27 · (Edited)
Sometimes it's frustrating because people pick the strangest hills to die upon. They get on a point and they belabor the same points over and over and over again. We never know with the social media mystique how old these people are saying these things. It could be a 10- or 12-year-old kid talking, but we never know. I always tell people don't get your drawers in a wad over pro wrestling creative. Don't get your blood pressure up and ruin your day or affect your life because you are not happy with pro wrestling creative. There are many more things to be concerned about than a finish in a pro wrestling match. Enjoy it, embrace it.
:Banderas
:drose :applause
:tucky
This should be everyone's mandatory sig.
 
#29 ·
I believe Jim Ross is wrong on the "they shouldn't worry about surprising anyone" thing.

Thats bullshit. People don't want to know whats coming next, they don't want to see the end result coming a mile away, thats exactly what stunted Reigns' growth. They made Reigns' ascension too obvious and fans shit all over it because it wasn't organically grown from their own support, the fans were told to like him.

With Rollins and Ambrose, its far more organic and built from the fans' own wishes. Rollins was built as a coward heel and the crowd loves him to bits. Ambrose hasn't had consistent booking EVER and the fans have never stopped supporting him. Those are two that people back naturally, without the company trying to force feed them down the throats of fans. Those are two that haven't been telegraphed months in advance to do what they've done.

Want to make the fans happy at Wrestlemania? Ambrose wins the Triple Threat, beats HHH at Mania. Thats one way. Though I like the idea of Reigns turning heel and rolling with that. That would be another way.

I'm really feeling the idea of a Reigns heel turn and win with a Rollins return later in the year and storyline between the two over the title Rollins never lost.

I also like the idea of Ambrose surprisingly winning the triple threat and winning the main event of Mania.

But "going with the flow" and having a face Reigns beat heel HHH is boring as shit, can be seen several miles away, and is just gonna piss people off. Again.

I don't think WWE knows how to make fans happy anymore. They just sometimes manage to do it, and most times don't.
 
#48 ·
No one can honestly think that if Daniel Bryan had been booked like Tyler Breeze he'd be "organically over." There is NO SUCH THING as 'organic' in professional wrestling. Santa Claus is dead, the Tooth Fairy choked him with a string of dental floss so she, Mrs. Claus, and Dasher could have a kinky threeway relationship. Kinda like the Shield, just polar.
 
#33 ·
☆Shala☆;57066593 said:
Why do people think criticizing a product = being extremely butthurt about it so much that it affects your personal life? :gaga1
It's the extent that people go with their hate that makes people think this. Example just using Raw and Smackdown as examples you have 5 hours of wrestling programming right there a guy you hate maybe get an hour at most of that tv time and they let the way that one guy for that one hour ruined the show for them to the point that they spend hours posting online about how terrible it is and how they are going to stop watching etc....it's obvious these people are worked up over this. These people spend money to go to a show that they hate knowing they are gonna leave feeling miserable at the end. This is not normal and there it must be affectiing one's personal life to put themselves through this when they could just not watch and especially not buy tickets when it makes you miserable.
 
#35 ·
Nobody watches Smackdown. So you can cross that out. I also hardly see people posting on here for continuous hours about a show they hate. Unless you're right there behind them watching their every move :ugh2

Also, you're going to have to show me who spends money going to these shows because I haven't seen any except for the hardcore's who save up all year to go to Wrestlemania.

Again, literally none of that proves it affects someone's personal life. They aren't cutting themselves because Raw sucks. Or crying because Reigns is pushed. They are letting their opinion known on a forum (which is what a forum is for) and laughing at this terrible show and going about their daily lives.

Stop with the projection because it makes you look like a fool.
 
#34 ·
I don't think predictability is bad... if there's good booking behind it. If you can tell a good story then you're more likely able to accept the inevitability. NXT is a good example... their booking is generally pretty straight forward. I mean they do throw in some curveballs, but, you had to know what the Women's title match at Takeover: Dallas was going to be. How they're getting there is entirely just fucking awesome though. Due to good character work and having those wrestlers work the crowd over like they're supposed to.

I've been thinking about the same type of booking JR has with Roman and Vince. I think the only way we get away from "Evil Owner" and "The Authority" is to book an angle where HHH turns face.
 
#37 ·
☆Shala☆;57068769 said:
Nobody watches Smackdown. So you can cross that out. I also hardly see people posting on here for continuous hours about a show they hate. Unless you're right there behind them watching their every move :ugh2

Also, you're going to have to show me who spends money going to these shows because I haven't seen any except for the hardcore's who save up all year to go to Wrestlemania.

Again, literally none of that proves it affects someone's personal life. They aren't cutting themselves because Raw sucks. Or crying because Reigns is pushed. They are letting their opinion known on a forum (which is what a forum is for) and laughing at this terrible show and going about their daily lives.

Stop with the projection because it makes you look like a fool.
You honestly believe the amount of hate spewed on places like this doesn't go beyond the normal level of criticism?

You think its normal for people to spend money to go see something they hate?

This activity is normal to you?

I guess it is what it it is but I just think that the thing normal people would do if they don't like something is to t support it especially financially. Example There's a new restaurant in town I went there last night I hated it can't wait to go back next weekend. This line of thinking is exactly what certain so called fans of WWE seem to doing.
 
#39 ·
It would be him aligning himself with Vince, and Vince thinking Triple H is getting too big for his britches. Vince sees Triple H and his hot new brand of NXT taking away some of the sizzle and attention from Raw and SmackDown. So even though Triple H is in line to take over the company someday, it's not today. Vince sets up a thing for Reigns to very subtly win the Triple Threat match which he is going to get booed out of the building with Lesnar and Ambrose in the same match. It doesn't take a sage to figure that one out. Then you get to WrestleMania without knowing any of this stuff has been going on since they don't tape it, it's like a secret. Surprise. It's not predicable. Then at WrestleMania, you have Triple H vs. Reigns, Reigns has the Rock in his corner to neutralize Vince and all his henchmen without realizing the biggest henchmen is his cousin Reigns. With Vince backing up Triple H and having him feel confident he is leaving WrestleMania as the champion. During the match, you have Reigns and Vince screw Hunter, Reigns goes over, Rock comes in and says what the hell, Superman punch, spear, down goes the Rock, Reigns is the champion and he kicks the Great One's ass. Reigns leaves, Vince is left preening over his creation when the Rock makes a little bit of a comeback, and end the show with Vince getting a Rock Bottom and a People's Elbow. Roman Reigns is Vince's boy and Roman Reigns is going to be basking off the glow, flying on the corporate plane, being Vince's right hand man and being the guy that put Triple H in his place.


now if anything else happens I'll be disappointed.
 
#40 ·
I remember when WWE used to start booking for 'Mania season around January, where it should be started to be booked at. Booking for Wrestlemanias a year prior or 6 months prior just ruins the rest of the season that isn't Wrestlemania season.

Fuck Rock and Cena for starting this trend. It worked with Daniel because it was a unique story, can't fucking do it every year.
 
#43 ·
Austin's booking was predictable, yet nobody cared and it didn't stop anybody from ordering PPVs or watching RAW. Hell, you could even say the same about Cena. It's an issue with Reigns because Reigns sucks. And HHH sucks. So you're watching this forced Mania main event between two shitty performers. Like THAT is a Mania main event. That's fucking sad. I'd take Bam Bam vs. LT any day over that.
 
#46 · (Edited)
I'd be okay if doubt started to form in Vince's mind about HHH... if he'll be able to get the job done. Especially if they make Roman go Super Samoan on Brock at Fast Lane. Eventually it should culminate in a Double turn at Mania. It's what's best for business.

I've been repeating myself but I think that HHH needs to be a face. He's the head of a boom period for NXT talent. Potentially, they'll be seeing the single largest amount of call ups in the very near future. And there's no vehicle for them to get over. NXT is his baby, he should be the one to help put them in the spotlight. Be the ambassador for the casual viewer. You can only do that logically if you're a face.
 
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