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Face vs. Face and Heel vs. Heel Dynamic

3K views 30 replies 28 participants last post by  DarkLady 
#1 ·
Does anyone feel that the whole good guy vs. bad guy formula can at times be way too predictable in terms of who wins and loses? (which in itself isn't too important - but I am merely referring to wins and losses as the ends to stories).


When I saw Kevin Owens vs. Rusev I was ecstatic because I thought 'finally - a match I can't predict the end to'. I had no idea who was going to dominate or how the story was going to end and to me the match felt fresh.

I know that you cannot have a wrestling story without a protagonist but I really find little fascination with pretty much any of the faces on the roster. If I could see matches like Bray Wyatt vs. The Ascension, Owens vs. Rollins and Rusev vs. Luke Harper each week - I would be more excited about the show. It's a relatively untapped dynamic that can lead to fresh and exciting feuds.
 
#27 ·
yeah thats what i was thinking. There was the very brief Corre vs. The New Nexus feud imo they should have had more of a power struggle angle over The Nexus between Punk and Barrett instead of lasting just one night.

Kurt Angle vs. Triple H was sort of heel vs. heel but for their match at unforgiven HHH kind of became a tweener that got cheered and worked as a babyface that night.
 
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#10 ·
It's not so much the face vs. heel dynamic that makes the outcome predictable, but the level of booking for the people in the ring. In the Attitude Era, you never knew the outcome because everyone on the same level had relatively the same level of protection with frequent DQ finishes. Now, when we see Kevin Owens vs. Zack Ryder who only shows up once every 3 months to job, we already know who's going to win, which takes the life out of the match. So yeah, we could use face vs. face and heel vs. heel every now and then, but what we need more is better booking for the whole roster.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Yeah, when it works it works, I mean Cena Vs The Rock was pretty much two faces, Bret Hart Vs Davey Boy was, Hogan Vs Warrior was, heel wise it's worked too, Martel Vs Shawn Michaels worked, I would like to see a few more of these matches happen, specially heel vs heel matches anyway.



Yeah, this is absolutely right, that's the problem with making main roster stars jobbers ... it weakens the roster completely and specially going into a PPV too, it's just lost a lot of the magic there with this.
 
#5 ·
It largely depends on the situation and how over certain people are. You can pit heel against heel and face against face when there's plans to further someone's progression towards either good or bad guy mode. Some acts, like Lesnar and Taker, are over enough with the audience that you'd be wasting time and energy trying to make one much more likeable or hatable than the other.

It can make for some compelling viewing; though again, it depends on what's involved. There are cases where it isn't pulled off well, such as in the case of the Divas. Watching everyone there act like catty, schizophrenic pests in any form of media they're on is more annoying than captivating.
 
#25 ·
Heel vs heel is a hard match to do because the crowd normally sits there dead and unable to choose a favorite. The smarter crowds will choose a favorite though. Heel vs heel is really for the smarter fans. Face vs face on the other hand is great and it's something they should do a little more often. Cena/Reigns is going to be the biggest match in years when they finally do it.
 
#29 ·
Yeah I think it has more to do with the current fanbase if anything. Sometimes you'll get a situation where the crowd is involved as with Wyatts vs Shield but then sometimes they'll just sit quietly because it seems their viewing experience is very one dimensional (e.g. every recent Bryan/Zigger match besides the post mania smark crowd one). I wouldn't even be surprised if the crowd were undecided with Cena vs Reigns considering how dead they were for Reigns vs Bryan at Fast Lane.
 
#3 ·
I agree completely. That was one of the magic things about the Attitude Era (where guys were almost always riding the fine line of what a traditional face and heel was thought of to be) and it's why I like what they're doing with the Brock/Undertaker program at the moment. There isn't a clear cut face or heel in this feud. Both guys are getting cheered and both guys are showing traditional face and heel traits. It's just two guys who have a serious issue with one another wanting to get their hands on the other while everyone else stands back and has a great time watching it.
 
#7 ·
I prefer more of the face vs face approach than I do heel vs heel. Heel vs heel should be a major thing, but not the other way around for face vs face. Face vs face should be more frequent in the WWE. It's the only organic way to really get a "face" over. It keeps from having the heel cheered as well, especially if the "face" sucks. At least with face vs face fans can ultimately decided who to cheer and it won't sound awkward, or ruin a feud. Heel vs heel should be rare, but not so rare that it seems like it never happens. Heels need momentum and imo more than the "face". When you have face vs face, the losing "face" can lose to the "heel" from heel vs heel dynamic and actually lose to either heel if necessary down the line. Meaning that "face" is seriously a jobber.

It makes more sense for the "face" to be the jobber more often because the heel needs momentum to make another "face" look good. The "face" jobber can lose because at any given time they can either turn heel and turn around all momentum, or "keep fighting". Fans will appreciate "paying" your dues. The WWE has done the opposite, but with "heels". No one really gets excited for a "face" turn especially when this person was a shit heel to begin with, or if they're a legit heel then you have taken what they do best away from them and forced the face turn. Fans don't feel empathy for the heel who jobs. Look at what's going in the WWE now. Very few "face" stars are established and the their heels are so hot and cold it's crazy.
 
#14 ·
Agreed. Plus there's something highly exciting about two guys trying to out-mean each other
There's very little face/heel dynamic anymore in WWE. I don't find it predictable at all. The so called 'heels' win more than they ever did.
Necessity of the times. 25yrs ago, watching a guy eat and spit out a new heel every month would get hero reactions, and today it gets you John Cena reactions. These days it's definitely nowhere near as marked as it used to be because they're still trying to figure out how to create effective heels in the modern age.
 
#24 ·
It would be great to see one of these feuds properly booked, but WWE doesn't know how to book these types of feuds. They always had to make someone the worse man. For example, if they book a Owens vs. Rollins feud, Either the Authority turns on Seth and "adopts" Owens as the new Authority golden boy or Owens goes full anti-Authority mode which of course would turn him face because the Authority would try to screw him every time.

Rusev vs. Wyatt it's probably the only feud that could, at least, be kinda interesting because you don't know who would end up being the worse guy. Although, Rusev is foreign so therefore he is worse than a cult leader.
 
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