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The myth of "not enough black wrestlers"

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#1 ·
A very common response when it is suggested that the wwe in particular does not utilise talent of African American ethnicity. I've heard it from austin and jim ross. And of course many people on this forum.

This is the same thought process applied back when Hollywood was a little more overtly racist. Not enough skilled black folk means less black folk on the screen right?
If pro wrestling was not a work, it most likely would be dominated by African American athletes as is the case with most top sports in America. This is because it's not about casting a character- it's about skills and ability. The wwe get to cast you regardless of your ability- the criteria is far more flexible and down to discretion.

So with anything creative- music, movies, plays, novels etc- nothing is a technicality. It's driven by a vision that whoever is directing will be sure to capture.
Vince McMahon has conservative values he does not shy away. He consigns bigots like Donald Trump.
When in a creative field it's incredibly difficult for the artist to segregate their own philosophies from the art itself.

So if your agenda is promoting a white American super hero, who over comes the odds (hulk hogan, john cena) then why would you consider a self-identifying black person fit for such a roll? The reason I say "self-identifying" is because I don't care if YOU claim the rock is black- it is he who never cared to represent or identify as a black man during his time at the top.
He was the member of the nation that broke out as a star but he was also the member of the nation with the least distinctive African features- thus making him "safe" enough to run with. But he was never cast as the great American hero (hogan, cena). The other members had far worse to deal with (pimp, gambler, womaniser and pretending to be Sikh)

Then you have the problematic booking of the nation being heels when they initially made very true and honest arguments. Dx were obnoxious, sexist and racist but booked as faces...
Despite the very real racial heat members of the nation received from Michaels and triple h- they continue with this. Ultimately coming out in black face. Something that hasn't been remotely socially acceptable for over a century at that point. This would not be the last time.

Goldust faced 2 cold Scorpio (flash funk- another racist gimmick) while goldust wore blackface and an Afro wig. Then rikishi wears blackface in 2002 in that awful hla segment.

Can anyone justify any of this? It's not down to sensitivity. Controversy can be entertaining. But in a scripted show there must be a moral to it. Something of value.
Like triple h and booker t's fued in 2003. If it had been unscripted- no one could argue that it was racist, it was just a sad end to a heated rivalry. But there was a writer(s) behind it- it was a scripted story with an outcome in the hands of creative. How do you justify triple h's racism in the story if he is not proven wrong? And goes on to win without any repercussions? Black people are only good for dancing?

Before people mention Henry or booker's run as champ- they were both HEELS. Vince is not casting a black man as a face champion for a reason. They even wanted Henry to take on a gorilla gimmick- seriously?

When people say Lashley wasn't ready or Shelton sucked on the mic- do you choose to ignore roman reigns headlining wrestlemania with less mic and in ring skills than both of them? Do you think he would have headlined wrestlemania with the skills he had at the time if he were black? I doubt it. Xavier woods outshines him in both but will never attain anything close. Jeff hardy and psycho sid suck on the mic but still held world titles.

Then look at ring of honor.
Black world champion who elevated the TV title at the same time.
While jay lethal is a heel he is not a racial stereotype in any form.
Their roster has some of the best black pro wrestlers who want nothing to do with the wwe for a good reason. Cedric Alexander, ACH and moose have charisma and incredible in ring skills. But in wwe cedric and ach would be booked like Kofi.

The point is- claiming there is not enough black wrestlers on top because not enough black people wrestle is a poor argument. Rock music is not primarily made by white people but it is marketed as such. But if you always target your music to that white demographic you will have more white fans, eventually more white people making that music. Guess which ethnicity loves "how I met your mother"? How many black people are in the leading cast? Then compare that to "my wife and kids" which has an all black leading cast.
If you don't book any black wrestlers as dominant and successful faces then black children won't relate to it. It's not an accident. It's not by chance. It's how media works.

This is a real issue and pretending it doesn't exist only makes it worse.

Mods please don't close this- I've made many valid arguments that will hopefully motivate a healthy discussion and will encourage critical thought when it comes to wwe as a creative show.
 
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#3 ·
A very common response when it is suggested that the wwe in particular does not utilise talent of African American ethnicity. I've heard it from austin and jim ross. And of course many people on this forum.

This is the same thought process applied back when Hollywood was a little more overtly racist. Not enough skilled black folk means less black folk on the screen right?
If pro wrestling was not a work, it most likely would be dominated by African American athletes as is the case with most top sports in America. This is because it's not about casting a character- it's about skills and ability. The wwe get to cast you regardless of your ability- the criteria is far more flexible and down to discretion.

I think your totally wrong on this.

College Wrestling is dominated by White Wrestlers and MMA for the most part is dominated by Whites and Brazilians.

Of the current UFC Champions only Cormier and Demetrius are black.

Weidman, Lawler and Dilleshaw are white and the rest of the champs are Brazilians.

The majority of NCAA Champs are also white.
 
#4 ·
Maybe its a lack of people in the WWE creative who understand how to push and use Black talent. Perhaps they are afraid to push a brother because they don't understand how to connect with that audience.

I've always thought it was really strange there has never been a WWE champion who identifies themselves with that culture. I think Ron Simmons may have been in the right place at the right time, Booker T 10000% should have at some point been WWE champion.

I don't think the WWE is racist. Maybe they just dont have the know how to use some of these guys properly.

Such a weird and touchy subject.
 
#7 ·
unless that Jordan guy in NXT makes it to the main roster and impresses, I doubt any black will be in a top main event position. There was that one black guy that recently signed with wwe (I forgot his name, forgive me) but he doesn't seem charismatic enough to take such a role. Big E, Xavier, Kofi, Titus, Darren, Naomi, Rtruth, Alicia Fox are used either as pawns or a flavor of the week and then they move on. Booker T, Rocky Johnson, Ron Simmons are the only legit black champs there was and ever will be. All in all though, screw it. just make black guys champs in the 2k series. I'm indifferent about the subject the more time passes.
 
#9 · (Edited)
It is a work. What are we going to make up the rules as we go along for this? Like RockStarDud pointed out there are white dominated sports as well including the 2 closest sports associated with pro wrestling.

I agree they need to push more African Americans but your argument is pretty weak across the board. Before they become supermen they have to inspire the audience otherwise you have Roman Reigns. Hogan wasn't given superman booking, Austin wasn't given it, and Cena wasn't given it either. They earned it by winning over the crowd and they did that with gimmicks too. Hogan is a bit different though because of Rocky but Cena's a rapping thug, Austin is a foul mouthed *******.
 
#11 · (Edited)
WWE used to push the envelope because that's where society was, I do agree that most of the examples cited in the OP show WWE in a racist light. They used a bunch of stereotypes for entertainment purposes, but they were hardly the only ones in entertainment to do so. Let's just acknowledge those examples from the 90s/early 2000s as potentially racist (Booker and HHH most definitely) and move onto the last decade or so and look at their overall use of African American wrestlers.

How many classic matches did Booker T and Ron Simmons have? In more recent years, Shelton Benjamin and MVP received heavy pushes, but never really caught on and delivered those main event calibre performances. If there was a conveyer belt of talented black wrestlers on the indies that the WWE have refused to sign, then I'd say WWE could be racist. If the aformentioned wrestlers had ran with the chances given to them by WWE, delivered amazing matches and promos, only to be ignored, then I'd say WWE is racist.

As it is, I think WWE have represented black wrestlers fairly. There seems to be less of them compared to Anglo wrestlers, and they've used the ones they have signed effectively. Most have ranged from decent to very good. The Rock is the only "black" wrestler to have truly achieved greatness, in terms of both talent and opportunities.

I'd like to point out too that WWE have committed themselves in the past to pushing Kofi Kingston and Big E seriously, but they fell flat on their face, hence- New Day.
 
#12 ·
I wouldn't claim that WWE is racist but rather in touch with who their target audience was at the time, all the way through the 90s. They were different generations with their own ideologies. As a teenager in the 90s I can safely say that the majority of my generation never really gave a shit about color, but i'm not sure I could say that about my parent's generation and especially my grandparent's generation who ALL watched wrestling. It's not even that they were racist, they just viewed black people as different.

As someone mentioned above me as being, "indifferent," I think that about sums up how most of their target audience is now. The product will evolve as their audience does.
 
#13 ·
I've often wondered this myself, OP. I'd like to give my two cents on this topic

I was born in Mexico and grew up watching AAA wrestling. Some of my fondest memories with my maternal grandfather have to do with us watching wrestling on TV together - this was before I knew about WWF. My parernal grandfather was actually a wrestler in Mexico, though I never met him.

But, I digress. Once I started watching WWF in the early early 90s and started attending live tapings with my parents, who were also huge fans, I adapted to and eventually preferred the "American" style of wrestling over the style on AAA, though I firmly believe they are both very important in their own right.

My favorite wrestlers growing up were the Ultimate Warrior, Macho Man, Taker, Shawn, etc. There weren't very many (if any) Hispanic wrestlers that I can remember back then (I guess Razor played one). There may have been a luchador, who, by going by tradition, wore a mask, but since I grew up watching AAA, I wanted something new and WWF was the perfect answer to that.

Many of my friends growing up in school who were also Hispanic had the same favorites as me but we never complained or even mentioned the lack of Hispanic talent in the ring.

My opinion is that most people who watch wrestling now grew up with it as was the case with me, but color never mattered much to me. I have a slight problem with people who need to see a cast in a movie or show that looks like them to be able to enjoy it because then you're being catered to just for the sake of being appeased.

Frankly, if they started parading Hispanic wrestlers so overtly to the point where WWE's intentions to rake in Hispanic viewers became so obvious, I would find it insulting.
 
#16 ·
Excellent responses in this thread.

I know it's a bit touchy for some people but overall I do not believe that WWE is racist. From a multitude of complying opinions on this thread do I derive that conclusion. Maybe they don't know how to relate to the black audience, maybe the vast majority of wrestling fans in the U.S. happen to be white males, so that's who they're catering to. Whatever the case, I don't think it truly proves anything against the company but arguments certainly can be made as in some solid points here and there in the OP.

For me personally, I believe what it comes down to, sort of alluded to by the previous poster who discussed Shelton Benjamin and MVP, is lack of charisma and "it" factor. And also, as pointed out, look at how Big E was built up a few years ago, even won the Intercontinental Title. Even Vince McMahon himself challenged Kofi on his overness so when you have someone that's given opportunity after opportunity it's sort of hard to really blame the company. Given that New Day is a group and they're getting great heat, I don't find much validity in their overness once they go back to singles wrestlers. We can say that they're not given enough opportunity, but honestly, isn't that the way it is for the entire 2015 roster? Look at how held back Ambrose, Barrett, and Wyatt have been recently, all white males who have great charisma, presence, and mic skills, when given the freedom to do so.

Shelton and MVP were great in-ring performers but can anyone honestly picturing them being world champion? Maybe in ROH or TNA but in WWE star power is everything to be THE champ, and that's what matters most to Vince at the end of the day. I do believe they should have ran with Booker T in 2003 as a face but Booker was a total package. He was very charismatic and a natural on the mic. Very likeable to casuals as well I would imagine. In a nutshell, what it comes down to from my perspective is that the wrestlers who wrestle for WWE that just so happen to be black just don't have what it takes to be world champ, main event material.
 
#18 ·
The western world is racist full stop. The only time white people are interested in black people is when they act ratchet. For example, imagine a show like "How I Met Your Mother" being an all black cast you think ****** would give it the time of day? But then you look at Empire which is one of the most popular shows on TV and it's basically World Star on TV.

Hell look at popular Youtubers/Viners, the most popular black ones have to work way harder to get the same popularity as pretty white boys. Even music, Usher > Justin Timberlake but Usher will never be as popular as JT, for example.
 
#19 · (Edited)
There may well have been racism in the WWE but we have no definitive proof either way. There have been quite a few black guys who could have been champions and werent, but then there have been even more white guys that fit that bill too. I do think Ernie Ladd couldve been huge though.



The western world is racist full stop. The only time white people are interested in black people is when they act ratchet. For example, imagine a show like "How I Met Your Mother" being an all black cast you think ****** would give it the time of day? But then you look at Empire which is one of the most popular shows on TV and it's basically World Star on TV.

Hell look at popular Youtubers/Viners, the most popular black ones have to work way harder to get the same popularity as pretty white boys. Even music, Usher > Justin Timberlake but Usher will never be as popular as JT, for example.
LOL...are you for real?

For the stuff in bold


1)The Western world is the LEAST racist, most tolerant part of the planet. Its also the most free, that includes the freedom to leave it if you dont like it.

2) Uhhh..the Cosby Show? Fresh Prince? Sister Sister? Everybody Hates Chris? Sanford And Son? also rofl @ using disrespectful, passive aggressive terms like "******" while whining about racism, blacky.

3) and yet Timberlake modelled his act on a much bigger selling and more famous black man by the name of Michael Jackson, you may have heard of him. His album "Thriller", which has his black face on the front cover, is the biggest selling album of all time. Also it seems you havent watched MTV anytime in the last 20 years, because popular music today is probably 60-70% black artists, and its largely white record buyers that are facilitating it.

get off that big ol hypocritical high horse you're on.
 
#115 ·
Vintage 2001 main event in 2016
OP, there's' not enough Asian-American wrestlers.


Hell there aren't any.
They're too busy coming up with hard math problems.

Btw don't use the "not good enough" argument. MVP and Booker T were better than a lot of people who held that title. Why is it that black wrestlers are held to such a higher standard?

No ONE is gonna be as good as The Rock if that's what they're waiting on.
 
#23 ·
"If pro wrestling was not a work, it most likely would be dominated by African American athletes as is the case with most top sports in America. This is because it's not about casting a character- it's about skills and ability. "


BUT IT IS A WORK.

It's about being a combination of athletic, strong, charismatic and a good actor, among other factors like connecting with the crowd.

For example; Titus O'Neil is entertaining but he looks like he is going to trip over with every step he takes in the ring. Just because he's black doesn't mean he will dominate the sport. He's like the most uncoordinated looking wrestler I can recall. Brock Lesnar, a white guy, is better than Titus, a black guy, in every aspect of pro wrestling.
 
#26 ·
Why do u all think r truth is a face hes the only true black wrestler as a face who is mediorcly actually wins and some what connects to the fans when he was a heel though beast should of been wwe champion first tna world champion nuff said wwe is racist
 
#27 ·
1. I think it's ridiculous fans exclude Mark Henry and Booker T because they had the World title. Especially in Booker's case since most say he should have won the World title at Mania 19.

2.While Booker probably could have won the World title, I can't be mad at a heel backing up his comments for maximum heat. HHH was truely a great heel then.

3. They were clearly building Lashley up strong before he decided to leave.

4. Shelton is like Cesaro great wrestler but not a WWE main event title holder.

5. People need to make up their mind you can't on one hand say Rock doesn't count because his gimmick or face wasn't black enough, but then on the other hand cry racism when a black wrestler has a gimmick associated with black culture.

6.
 
#28 ·
The point is- claiming there is not enough black wrestlers on top because not enough black people wrestle is a poor argument.
What isn't a poor argument is stating that none of the black wrestlers in WWE are better than the best in the company, except The Rock of course. In before "he's not black". Whatever, he is, stop talking shit.

There has been and may currently be racism in WWE, no doubt, and there have been some real racist things happen on TV in the past for sure. However, that doesn't mean the only reason WWE hasn't had a 'true' (for you "Rock isn't black!" guys) black top wrestler is just because they haven't had a black wrestler as good as the top guy.
 
#29 ·
To the guy who said most MMA fighters are Brazilian, I hope you realise Brazilian is an ethnicity and not a race, and I hope you realise most Brazilians are black or mixed I guess you could say through the slave trade that happened there.
And some of the world's greatest football players are black like Henry, Drogba, Ronaldinho, Yaya Toure to some of the rising stars like Neymar, Sturridge, Sterling, Oxlade-Chamberlain (whose mixed race but still) etc. But thankfully football is a diverse sport unlike wrestling.

I do personally wish that both Hollywood and Wrestling was more diverse and showed different types of people but it probably won't happen :(
 
#31 ·
The majority of Brazils population is either white (a huge amount of Italian, Portugese, Spanish etc people went there) or multiracials who in this case are usually a mix of European and indigenous blood. There are quite a few blacks and people with black influence in their DNA there but claiming Brazillians as majority black is patently incorrect. Ive also never heard anyone call Neymar black before, i'm not sure Ronaldinho can be claimed as black either.

You are absolutely right in that there are plenty of great black Footballers though, but I think you've missed the point. OP pretty much implied that black people are physically superior to others so would dominate the WWE if it was real. Others were simply pointing out the numerous sports that blacks dont dominate.
 
#30 ·
I wouldn't really call the WWe racist. Especially not this day and age...if them giving all the "white people" super pushes then you would have Summer Rae and Paige exchanging extensive womens champion reigns; which really isn't the case.

The two longest reigning womens champions have been latinas, someone like Kofi Kingston has held every title sans the heavyweight title a number of times. Seth Rollins is not white and he is the current champion. The next face of the WWe, Roman Reigns, is not white. The current tag team champions and top challengers and rivals are all black. Some of the biggest names in WWe over the past years have been people like Rey Mysterio, Batista and Eddie Gurerro. Not to mention there has been planned big pushes for people like Albert Del Rio, Bobby Lashley, the only reason Hideo Itami isn't the NXT champion right now is because he got injured....and of course, the Rock who is half black is considered to be the greatest WWe superstar ever.

I am just saying, maybe you could make a case that the WWe doesn't like "black people", but I wouldn't really consider them "anti non-white". I think it has more to do with not enough people having the charisma and likability, white people included. You don't necessarily have to be a phenomenal wrestler to get over.
 
#32 ·
Here's how we can test if WWE's racist or not.

Let's take Xavier Woods and make him solo,


and pair him up with a female valet: Paige, Lana, or Summer Rae.


Have we ever seen Cody Rhodes on WWE TV with his wife? They seem to always keep them apart. Even at this past WrestleMania red-carpet, they had Cody's wife with Dusty instead of him. They didn't want to show an interracial couple.

Oh yes I went there. :curry2
 
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