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The reason why WWE could never go back to that edgy gritty Attitude Era we all love.

18K views 198 replies 87 participants last post by  jorgovan21 
#1 · (Edited)


I wanted to share this in a topic of discussion (Please keep it respectable) because I've mentioned in a couple of threads here recently about it during discussion but it's kind of been lost in the midst and I did want to share this with you guys.

I met Ric Flair recently and spent about 4 hours with him about 4 - 5 weeks ago which was very cool, he was talking to us about the whole PG era we're in now and surprisingly he said that the main reason why they can't go back to the Attitude Era is simple .... it's social media.

This surprised me a little because it wasn't something I expected as such, you kind of expect answers to never really give you anything solid but this has never been said before and was always speculation of various types as to why they won't go back to that edginess we all loved, Flair has had conversations with Vince and backstage and this is the reason why they can't do this, which I know people throw around different answers round here as to why they can't do this.

We live in such a politically correct world now where people will complain at anything if given the chance and will take things way too seriously, as well as twist things into being something way much more than what it is, take Cena for example making some kids night at an event, probably nothing more than him just doing this for that kid (an example only, let's not debate this), yet people will start calling him disgusting for using a cancer kid and things like that, which no doubt, it's not even anything like that in his mind or any deeper than making that kids night, however I really don't want this to go into that kind of conversation, it's just an example of what is thrown out there, whichever side of the coin you are on (there is a thread here somewhere if you want to discuss that, but it's just an example of how social media really effects the product).

Flair was saying how we'd all love to see a Stone Cold Steve Austin again flipping off his boss, but in this era they cannot do that now, because there would be an out cry on social media which would spoil the fun.

Again, people say it's all different reasons and we can argue this as much as we like, but from a genuine experience I was lucky enough to have this is the reason why Vince can't go back to the more edgy viewing, they want to do it at times, such as when they did the Jericho/Punk storyline with the alcoholism and Punk having the bottle smashed over his head but guess what .... they got complaints and had to tone it down quick.

So this is why, there is just way too much complaining and outbursts on social media now with trends and things that they can't win and have to be really careful, even when they are doing something genuinely innocent without expecting any chance of a backlash or anything being said, it often gets twisted and people find a way to do this, we've seen it, so we know ourselves but this is a true genuine reason as to why we'll never see the WWE go back to that edgy product again, unless of course there was a change in public and social media, which isn't going to happen that fast so we're kind of stuck really, it's not because they don't want to at all ... it's because they can't, which I think many of us know anyway.

The WWE just need to put on the best product they can and I know this is often debated but it's getting harder and harder for them to do things and they have to continue to play it safe every time, they have a reputation and they have sponsors which generates a huge part of their income to keep them on top and deliver the production costs and what not of the product that is very important to them and without them, the financial change would be pretty substantial, and anyone with half a brain can understand how important revenue is to a business, no matter how big or small.

It's very hard for the WWE right now and they do want to push the boundaries a bit more, but every time they do they get criticised for it or someone always has something to say, back in the day a complaint could be ignored or didn't get much attention, but now with social media people see something and then jump on the bandwagon and it's this what spoils the product and waters it down in that sense.

We are our own down fall believe it or not, and it's not too difficult to take responsibility for that, even if it's not us as the individual it's the reason why the WWE can't go back to what we once had in that era and it's a shame, it doesn't matter how much we argue it, this is pretty much what it is.

Here is a little clip I recorded of Flair talking about this, he went into more depth, however this is the clip I have here which pretty much confirms what I've mentioned above, and Flair knows, because he's there.

0:55 - 2:15 he's talking about it in regards to talents having creative freedom and the Steve Austin thing and how that's gone now, it's a shame and Flair even says himself he doesn't think it's any worse than the internet, but it's not his choice and this is the reason it is.



Thoughts, again, I'm not saying the WWE are perfect, they're absolutely not and we all have different opinions on different things that they are doing, however this is something that really needs to be taken on board now, there was more than this but that's pretty much what it is and I did want to share this with you guys as I felt it was quite informative and something that you might be interested in :)

There are more topics of interest here, however in regards to what I've mentioned above, it's in the audio clip so enjoy :)



I hope this has added a little insight for some people, as it surely did me, sure we had an idea in regards to this but we never had it confirmed, we always assumed or made various assumptions around here, as so many different things you hear people banging on about ... but many of them aren't the case, however enjoy and please keep it respectable also in discussion here as that's all that this is here for, for us to to have a nice genuine discussion in regards to things here, that's all, so enjoy :)
 
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#2 ·
TL'DR 8*D

I kid, I kid. Actually, I did read and really, his answer may have been social media but it all links back to what I've seen people say over and over again, this society we live in is too PC to allow those type of boundaries to be pushed without a falling out from devout fans or from someone who doesn't even watch the product extensively and has a negative outlook on it because of a few clips of crossdressing wrestlers, swearing, potty humor, and women stripping to their undergarments.
 
#4 ·
Yeah, and it all leads back to ... social media, where do they give the out cry, social media, what do people do ... they're like sheep and jump on the bandwagon on social media, things trend, they can't ignore a stupid over the top complaint any more and it all gets over exaggerated too, it's crazy ain't it?

People love to complain now, at the tiniest little thing, as well as exaggerate it or twist it even, all it takes is for one person to put a spin on these things and that's it, it's happened to them in the most innocent ways possible, and also is no doubt the reason why they took action towards AW to set an example, even though that was a few weeks after they decided to fire him and they'd already issued their apology, it obviously wasn't enough for people to they fired him alongside the whole senate thing he was saying (which I think was an excuse).

It's mad ain't it, Vince is a fan of that whole edgy stuff they used to do, but they just can't, it's a shame really.

I personally enjoy the product as it is, but I'd definitely love to see some more of that edginess back also a little, but even when they scratch the surfaces with it, they get criticised for it.
 
#3 ·
Meh it goes both ways. People criticize the PG era, and have for over 10 years all over social media and other sources saying the product sucks. And WWE doesn't give a shit. If Triple H were to go and make an edgier product tomorrow and people complained, it would be met with the same reaction. They do whatever the fuck they want. We (fans) don't control what they do. The investors and shareholders do. Which is why they won't ever go back, because of that very reason. If this were a privately held company like it was in 98 and almost all of 99, it would be easier said then done. They aren't.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Not really, 10 years ago social media wasn't as powerful as it is now with Twitter and things like that.

I don't think you understand how they can't just ignore the complaints now like they used to do, they can't, they've tried, as I mentioned with the Punk/Jericho angle.

There are other examples but that's one where they really tried it, not just with the bottle smashing and the alcohol thing but even using slightly offensive words like bitch and bastard they did more so, they do now in small doses but that's about as far as they can go with it, cause if Cena says 'Bastard' it's not good for the kids and boom, complaints and trends on social media, it's not a good look and it does effect them completely when people see they're not getting a good reputation, it's ridiculous but it's how it is.

I knew it I said it from day one they cater to soccer mom and children and even some adult fans that pg closet fans. Just think about it Op anytime something edgy happens there is a protest by Soccer moms and pg closet fans but I respect the Soccer moms and kids atleast they dont hide they feelings.
Boom, spot on, even if it's not us as individuals, it's us as the public that makes it very difficult for them in the long run, this is absolute truth.

You hit the nail on the head there without a doubt.
 
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#5 ·
I knew it I said it from day one they cater to soccer mom and children and even some adult fans that pg closet fans. Just think about it Op anytime something edgy happens there is a protest by Soccer moms and pg closet fans but I respect the Soccer moms and kids atleast they dont hide they feelings.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Meh. Everything comes back around. The only reason we live in a world that is too politically correct is because influential people and organisations such as the WWE catered towards that culture, causing a spiral towards more political correctness, so they can't be completely absolved of blame. Attitudes change and the pendulum will swing back the other way eventually.
 
#9 · (Edited)
So, to be honest, I still hold my tenet that there is a good portion of people looking back on those days with glasses tinted so rosy they're growing bushes above their heads. We've seen plenty of moments in the "PG Era" where, when they put even an ounce of effort into it, they can write compelling feuds and promos without being "edgy." Half the time when I see people crying for "edgy" product they just want softcore porn, and hey it's all gravy, but there is Plenty of porn on the internet, it's there for whoever wants to enjoy it.

Conflict is what should always be the focus of the storytelling, with HEAVY emphasis on the why the conflict is happening and that's the biggest failing of WWE storytelling right now, the why's.. We need the why's not just the matches. At least that's my feeling on the topic.
 
#18 · (Edited)
So, to be honest, I still hold my tenet that there is a good portion of people looking back on those days with glasses tinted so rosy they're growing bushes above their heads. We've seen plenty of moments in the "PG Era" where, when they put even an ounce of effort into it, they can write compelling feuds and promos without being "edgy." Half the time when I see people crying for "edgy" product they just want softcore porn, and hey it's all gravy, but there is Plenty of porn on the internet, it's there for whoever want's to enjoy it.
Well said. I'd be so bold as to suggest that everything that was actually good about Attitude Era WWF -- and that's a much smaller category than many old fans want to admit -- could be done just as well within the PG constraints. The stuff that people actually lament as impossible in "today's PC world" was garbage designed to draw in the Jerry Springer crowd, and they kept doing it long after the "casual" audience disappeared, so it's disingenuous to complain about the "current PC culture" being the reason, or even a reason, why the company is currently at a low point culturally.

Another point: I'm sure Vince was a fan of "edgier" content back in the day, but I doubt he has any regrets about running a publicly traded company with shareholders that appeals to kids and families. Looking at the history of the company, that seems to have always been a big part of his idea of what it means to be "respectable", and that's been a big goal since Day 1. Austin flipping everybody off and DX mocking the Nation in blackface and Sable strutting around topless may have allowed the WWF to survive the Monday Night War, but it kept Vince from being able to say that his company was a partner of the Make-a-Wish Foundation and the Special Olympics and whatnot. I think the company today is exactly where he wants it to be, and if the content isn't, I'm pretty sure he's happy to live with it.
 
#12 ·
Yep, but that's what it is, it's a family show and a family show in today's world has so many guidelines, I mean it was a family show in Hogan's era too, but they didn't have social media out cry back then or were criticised as much as they are now.

I mean think about it, you know about the angle with Jake 'The Snake' Roberts being sprayed in the eye with arrogance and being blinded by Rick Martel right? .... imagine if they did an angle like that now about someone being sprayed in the eye and blinded ... there would be an out cry ... even that, how ridiculous does it sound but it's so true lol

The WWE get so criticised for some reason, but back then, people didn't think anything of it.
 
#13 ·
Nobody bitched on first episode of The Walking Dead Rick shoots a 9 year old girl in head blowing her head off.

Or Breaking Bad killing the 13 year old on bike


It's entertainment.

Everyone cheered Dexter even though he's a serial killer who had a almost incestual fascination with his sister.


Those shows were #1 award winners, first seasons of True Blood

Game of Thrones

Sons of Anarchy

Etc


Social media is poor excuse, they need to stop trying to market to ages 1-100

Go back to 16-40 demographic same as the shows I listed above

Then they could return to tv-14 or tv-ma and even win awards
 
#15 ·
It's not a poor excuse, it's true, those programmes don't get the criticism the WWE get, who are seen as a family show, those programmes are rated as they come out where as the WWE are putting on live shows and being very family friendly to those audiences of those shows, not only that for some bizarre reason the WWE get more criticism than these shows do, what get cut more slack, though chances are they probably also face the same things to some degree too, we just don't know about it.

WWE trends every week Raw is on or a PPV or even in general such as The Rock today at a house show, it's just WWE, but it's huge and it gets a reputation from social media, if something is trending on social media painting them in a bad light it effects them, and it looks bad on them and yes sponsors will take this into consideration, Walking Dead and whatever else don't have that problem to the extent the WWE do, they don't do live family friendly shows all over the world, so it doesn't matter to them that much, they have their budget and what they need to make their programmes and it goes no further than there, WWE it stretches out, it's not a poor excuse at all, you just obviously don't understand it in regards to this.

You know it anyway, we've all seen it ... look at the out cry they get on Facebook comments, Walking Dead don't get that so that is actual PROOF there that the WWE get this, maybe it's their audience they have, maybe it's cause they stretch so far worldwide, I don't know but the facts are facts and a Walking Dead Facebook page doesn't get the criticism a WWE Facebook page does as a poster mentioned above, that is there in front of your own eye's so go see the difference.

It's not a poor excuse at all, it's fact and it's true, everything the WWE do they get criticised into being something bad, the recent one with Cena wasn't a good look for example, again, not getting into a discussion about that but the evidence is there, the WWE get criticised for every single move they make and if you or I were in their position, we wouldn't be able to do it either and would learn this.

It's not a poor excuse, it's there in front of our eye's, as I say, go compare the pages and see the difference in complaints, it's the audience that does it, why I've no idea but it's there ... and that's fact, blame the complainers all over social media that hound the WWE pages and not the Walking Dead pages etc.. it's fact.
 
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#14 ·
You already posted this once already lol.

At the end of the day, it still all goes back to people (soccer moms and other lily-livered folks of their ilk) being way too sensitive and not realizing that wrestling is a scripted television show like any other. This is most definitely true of the investors and shareholders as well. Plus, many of the groups that WWE has and wants to maintain good relationships with often don't approve of some of the stuff they do either - GLAAD, for example, get offended by any type of joke or insult that can be construed as a gay slur. These things have more of an influence than a bunch of butt-hurt people on social media do.

Also, I don't really think social media was the cause for the Punk/Jericho feud in 2012 being toned down. I don't even recall it being toned down per se, because by the time Jericho poured alcohol on Punk and smashed a bottle over his head (and slipped and busted his ass doing so), they were only a few weeks from their blow-off match at Extreme Rules 2012 anyway.
 
#17 ·
Yeah, I think some people do forget that it's an entertainment show and a scripted show, yet in the next breath they knock the WWE saying it's fake lol

About the Punk/Jericho thing, valid points and can be debated but ... they've never done an angle of that edge since, so there you go.

They may push the boundaries again and I wouldn't be surprised if they do, but there is no doubt they hesitate on this every time they think about it.
 
#16 ·
Wrestling fans need to come together, review the footage and collectively acknowledge that the most "gritty" and "edgy period of WWE history happened AFTER the Attitude Era and ended around 2006/7.

Wrestling fans also need to stop trying to be so edgy.
 
#20 ·
Yeah, one of the other things I forgot to mention in the OP too that Flair said is that the talent now are advised not to go out as much after events and things, again because of social media.

It's not that they're told they can't, it's just that they're advised to do so, that's why talents often sit in and play computer games or read comic books as opposed to back in the day when they'd be getting drunk in every city and bar that they visited, they just can't do it now cause it'll end up on social media.
 
#22 ·
It's not even about going back to the Attitude Era, personally I don't think its 100% necessary but what is is simple consistent booking that doesn't insult peoples intelligence's and having matches on PPV that actually mean something. The titles should mean something, the tag division should have meaning , the mid card should help breed main eventers and there should never be 1 guy who dominates the entire landscape for 10 years like John Cena has. Everyone gets derailed and fed to Super Cena and unfortunately it looks like Reigns is the next guy . Putting 1 guy only in the position to succeed is the worst way you can run the WWE but Vince loves to do it but his most successful was when he had multiple guys that could have the title and run with it. Why wouldn't you want another era of Jericho , HHH , Austin, Rock, Undertaker , Mankind, Kane , etc that could all be in the main event at any given time. The problem is that booking makes people care less about majority of the roster while in the Attitude Era the booking made people care about almost the whole roster, it should go back to being like that, don't necessarily need to have "edgy" storylines every week. Though the immature stuff that they do should go, its not needed I mean really , are parents going to stop their kids from watching wrestling if John Cena doesn't say "poopy"? Doubt it
 
#23 ·
I agree, and they can put on matches of high calibre too, I often refer to the 2012 TLC match between Team Hell No & Ryback Vs The Shield for example, however we do know people often want this edginess back to some degree that the AE brought, I mean, I can take or leave it really but I have to admit that certain aspects of it, are pretty good to see, it just doesn't need to be over done, or as strong or is it a necessity for me, but like how Flair mentions about Austin flipping off his boss, they can't do that now.

I think it's a mixture for some people though because to some (which is fair enough) the edginess of the AE does matter, just as much, and maybe more so than the booking that they want that back, I know there are a huge amount of people here with AE names etc.. which is often a topic of discussion here and people will completely put the blame on the WWE for not branching out or experimenting with that ... but it's not as simple as that for them anymore, otherwise they would no doubt do it and scratch the surfaces of it at least, where as now, they have to go completely the opposite way.
 
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#29 ·
Am I the only one that thinks the attitude era sucked? OMG ITS KANE HE,S SETTING UNDERTAKER ON FIRE. THE MINISTRY HAS KIDNAPPED STEPHANIE. OH HERE COMES THE HOOES.

Garbage entertainment. Garbage matchquality for the most part. I thought wcw in 96-97 was way better with the amazing cruiserweights and guys from japan coming over aswell as nwo&sting and great tagdivision etc etc. Whats so cool about some bald dude flipping a finger? Unless your under the age of 15 I really dont see whats so special about the attitude era. Id rather have a more realistic approach. Take inspiration from shows like sons and breaking bad then have a sportsfeel ala njpw.
 
#31 ·
You're not, I wouldn't say it sucked but it's not my favourite era and that's simply because of the substance of it in my personal opinion, it relied more so on sleaze and edginess than it did anything else and eventually that gets tiresome, specially as a wrestling fan, but I can understand those who did love it, specially those who grew up with it also, which I did so myself too, though me personally I prefer the Hogan era, I'd say the late 80's and more so early 90's era that I've watched back on, the talent was better, the quality was better and just everything was better in my personal opinion, but the AE did bring some great characters and talents from that era that have shined such as Foley, Austin and Rock etc..

But I also like other talents that shined in that era, yet were around before it kicked in, such as Road Dogg and Billy Gunn, they were there before hand with Jarrett and The Smoking Gunns, Waltman as the 1-2-3 Kid and the rest of those guys, but I do agree with you when it comes to substance it's not that great and I think it lasted longer than expected really but at the time was very important and did what it needed to do, they had to get people talking and tuning in again and that's what it did :)

About the edginess though, even an element of that I wouldn't mind in today's WWE, it was compelling with the Punk/Jericho storyline and I liked that, it also became memorable for me, which most feuds don't, I have noticed now that when a talent says 'Bastard' I remember it now cause of how rare it is and how shocking it is to hear that in today's WWE (even if it does get blanked on TV sometimes) ... I remember when Daniel Bryan said to Big Show 'You are a bastard' ... and it really made me laugh, but that's cause it's Bryan and was so unexpected and poor Big Show being called a bastard when I don't think he did anything wrong haha

But basically my take on it is, a little bit of edginess doesn't go amiss, it's not needed or is it necessary but when it does come around, it makes you watch and that's due to how rare it is and it does have that little thing about it, so it's kinda like that.

Don't need the sleaze and sex references and things though, but the edge in storyline and the odd word ... does add to it a little, it's just not necessary :)
 
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#34 ·
It's a yes and no for me.

I think there lots of things that aren't PC that sell really well these days, look at all the top music songs (basically all about drugs, sex, alcohol, money). Many of the top TV shows are not family friendly, such as Walking dead, Breaking Bad, GoT (sex scenes in many episodes), hell even Total Divas draws viewers cause of the beautiful women and the alcohol/sex references, etc.

Like Bishoff once said "controversy creates cash" and it's still true to this day. Look at celebrities today: Bieber (not Rollins) getting in trouble with the cops, Bruce Jenner got even more famous for becoming trans gender, and others.

I understand these are off examples but a family friendly product isn't exactly what's in these days, you can still be edgy....it's just that there are more restrictions these days (you can't make race jokes, homophobic jokes, etc).
 
#36 ·
But, for some bizarre reason they don't get scolded for it or criticised for it like the WWE do, as I mentioned earlier, look at the WWE's facebook page and see all the comments of complaints over the tiniest little thing, they get backlash like crazy, yet Walking Dead can blast off a Zombie's head and nothing, the WWE are in a completely different position, probably cause they do live family shows all over the world too, where as these kids won't watch Walking Dead like they will WWE and they don't give a shit about Bieber (which by the way he has more hype than record sales and like Chris Brown with his stuff when he lost all his sponsorships and radio plays at the time too and he still is frowned upon by sponsors), it's weird I know but it is completely a different thing for the WWE, kids buy their figures and the lot, where as it's a completely different audience that will buy Walking Dead or Breaking Bad memorabilia.

I understand what you're saying but the audience is different and I don't agree with Bischoff in this situation, that's an old school mentality but with social media in today's world, they simply can't do it, if it wasn't for that then possibly so, but it's there and it matters.

The proof is out there anyway cause WWE trends if they do something that is frowned upon and Walking Dead never does, so the proof is there that Walking Dead can do it but WWE can't, their Facebook pages are so different with the backlash.

Don't ask me why, but it's how it is, like Flair says about the internet, I think ourselves and the WWE actually feel the same in that sense that you can see and hear worse things elsewhere, but when the WWE do it, it's frowned upon.

It's how it is.

I think the main point is not the "attitude" but the story lines. Ok a great, great many of them were terrible in hindsight but they tired. I get disapointed on a regular basis when I see the shows because of the lack of story/need to care about the characters. Maybe its just me growing old but I can like without the godfather/Val Venis/Sable but I'd certainly be putting down more ££ if its a long compelling build up to a match.

Everything in moderation, imagine Cena bloodied and battered in a cage by Owens in the final match of a feud. See it every week and the value is lost. The product doesn't have to lurch full on adult, just throw out the odd bit on PPV and everyone gets what they want. Well apart from Me as I'm still waiting for Sid to take his place in the GOAT threads...
Yeah, I think the case here though is with the discussion about having that edginess back, which many people do feel they want, it just isn't possible, some people think it's simply down to the fact they just won't do it and won't branch out but it's not because they won't, it's because they can't.

I agree with you by the way about what you're saying, specially that with the Owens/Cena thing you mentioned, I wouldn't want it every week either, but we'll never see a match like Foley and Flair at Summerslam 2007 again, not for a long time anyway :)
 
#35 ·
I think the main point is not the "attitude" but the story lines. Ok a great, great many of them were terrible in hindsight but they tired. I get disapointed on a regular basis when I see the shows because of the lack of story/need to care about the characters. Maybe its just me growing old but I can like without the godfather/Val Venis/Sable but I'd certainly be putting down more ££ if its a long compelling build up to a match.

Everything in moderation, imagine Cena bloodied and battered in a cage by Owens in the final match of a feud. See it every week and the value is lost. The product doesn't have to lurch full on adult, just throw out the odd bit on PPV and everyone gets what they want. Well apart from Me as I'm still waiting for Sid to take his place in the GOAT threads...
 
#38 ·
To be honest with you guys, everybody wants another attitude era but I dont, that time is over and the wwe should create a new era of wrestling that is different from the past. Thankfully we have new stars other the Cena and it would be easy to create a new type of wwe. Why do we need the swearing, girls stripping and sex jokes when we could do something more sophisticated that is entertaining.

Things the new era should have:

More wrestling- We could do that with all the new talents we have

Less commercials, plug ins and pointless talking- The plugins should be kept to the minimum and have commercials but have a few of them, I also really dont have problems with promos but when its too much and there is no use to it, then there is a problem

Less stupid gimmicks- No more Fandango's or Adam Roses, Those types of characters are cringe-worthy and are jobbers when you announce them, not even the kids find them funny

No repetitive matches- how many times have we seen Kane/Rollins vs Reigns/Ambrose, the first time its great but every week its stupid.

Better storylines- Not neccessarily edgy storylines but ones that are interesting for ex. Daniel Bryan vs The Authority or Ambrose vs Rollins. great storylines that keepthe fans wanting more

We dont need the atitude era for wwe, we need something that is fresh and not insulting our intelligence, NXT for example.
 
#39 ·
I agree, the only thing I do feel is the gimmicks is needed, I know you said stupid gimmicks as opposed to gimmicks in general, but I'd rather them be there than gimmickless characters that have no distinction from one to the other, I couldn't take to Adam Rose at all on the TV, specially with that whole bunny thing, however when I saw him at a show it was a completely different feeling, I think he's just a character that translates at live shows more than on TV, though now he's without the bunny, I actually quite like him and I think he should be involved in more, but yeah, I get what you're saying.

There is just so much from wrestling fans wanting the whole AE elements back, which I agree with the elements of this is fine, just not to be based on that without substance basically, a blend of it really but they can't even put a slight edge in half the time and that's what it is :)
 
#40 ·
no social media is not a good excuse, that is such a crappy excuse.

Now i know the product could be better without violence or that tv 14 rating, but its quite obvious that ever sense 2007, when they went to pg, their ratings have fallen off a cliff to the point where 3.6 million viewers is the norm instead of 5.5-6 million.

Social media, at least the way your describing it, isn't harmful. yes the soccer moms and what not might lose their collective shit, but what do you do? ignore them, they arent going to do shit. They dont do shit to walking dead, they don't do shit to breaking bad, and they wont do shit to wwe if they ever decide to go tv 14. Im not quite sure why you think they will actually change anything, those soccer moms are looked down upon in society, especially now. They have no power, 99% of the world doesn't agree with them.
 
#45 · (Edited)
Completely wrong, social media is incredibly powerful and it does reflect on them, as explained throughout the thread.

You might think it doesn't matter, but it does, put yourself in their position and you'll see all the things that will surface as opposed to why it actually matters, at the end of the day, they know so how can we argue against this, that's quite egotistical of us to try tell them about things that don't matter when clearly they evidently do, they're running this, they're experiencing this, it also makes a lot of sense.

You bring up Walking Dead (again) but go see their Facebook page, then go see the WWE's, it's a different audience and it DOES matter, tell me this .... Walking Dead has a zombies head blown off .... nothing is said, WWE kicks someone in the head or has someone flipping the fingers .... complaints, out cry, backlash all over social media.

Social media has a huge effect on things now and it DOES effect the product, when Walking Dead do something it doesn't trend, it isn't backlashed like the WWE is .... why? You know it as well as I do, we all know the criticisms the WWE gets for this, again, go read the posts on their Facebook pages and see the difference, it's there in black and white, Walking Dead don't get that, WWE get criticised, Walking Dead don't ... so why don't Walking Dead get the backlash but WWE do?, explain this, cause you can't say it's not there .... it is.

Social media gives public companies and figures a reputation, if a sponsorship is considering putting money into WWE and they see these backlash social media shit going around, they will hesitate, that's simple to understand, WWE need sponsorship more than the Walking Dead do who are funded by the film and arts company or survive on their revenue after their success.

Different audience completely, live shows and sponsors don't matter as much with Walking dead as they don't need the financial support continuously, it's a COMPLETELY different kettle of fish and if you can't understand this I really don't know what else to say.

Comparing Walking Dead and all these other shows to WWE is a COMPLETELY different thing, I'm not sure why people can't understand this because it's not hard, the audiences are completely different that is catered for., it's like how a movie wouldn't get criticised but the WWE would, they cater for different audiences and are aimed at being a family show where people go out on family outings, Walking Dead etc.. aren't, they film in a location over a small part of the year, have the finance they need and don't have to go out and face the public and keep a revenue coming in, the WWE do.

Read through the rest of the thread, it's been explained already, it's not rocket science.

The thing about gimmicks is that you need them, Ambrose with the crazy guy, Reigns with the juggurnaut type of badass, Rollins the oppurtunist, Wyatt the cult leader, these types of characters will take the WWE into the future, the Adam Rose problem is that he is not serious enough to make me like him, Fandango I just hate but they might be fun for live events. The WWE should add a little edge into their content, it makes the show better, like when Rollins threatened Edges livlihood to bring back Steph and Hunter, I thought that was one of the best endings in that year, really good entertainment. Its sad to see the same people who said they want the attitude era back are crying about how edgy this or that segment is
Yeah, I agree with you completely, it's just about covering the board really I think :)
 
#42 ·
It's a good reason & makes sense.

Can't help but feel WWE dug the hole themselves in regards to the PC social media brigade; They changed their audience for the most part for children and their merch buying soccer moms. To change their programming after bringing this demographic onboard would cause hostility.

You look at Game of Thrones & that controversy week in, week out. Fans will like or dislike the last ep. but you won't have people who aren't involved or weren't initially invited to have their say because they wouldn't have begun watching anyhow, it's not like it jumped the shark.

You could say WWE 'jumped the shark', if you were to compared it to AE/RA; alienated some fans, brought on a whole new bunch of young kids & moms. Changing things up now from kid to mature would bring quite a vocal majority since that's the only types of people watching, in arenas now at least and there's no guarantee the past fans or loyal ones will make up for the loss.
 
#49 · (Edited)
Really good post, really good insight and a very valid point to think about, those shows are a completely different kettle of fish to what the WWE have to put up with, they come out like that, the WWE don't and aren't reflected like that and that's what it is.

Parents think it's ok for their kids to watch WWE, they decide in regards to Walking Dead and things and know what to expect, they don't expect that to come from the WWE and that's what it is :)

Just curious but when you say from wrestling fans is that in general? I'm just wondering as the general demographic on this board appears to be the type that will have grown up during the AE and naturally a fully PG format isn't catering to what by and large people of our "age" are looking for.

The network might also be at play here, can't have the shareholders kicking off about anything "risque" no matter how insignificant as you mentioned earlier.
The general consensus is that many wrestling fans all want elements of edginess back, which is often referred to as the AE, when Flair and other talents go round they face these kind of conversations all the time, when will the WWE bring some of this back, why can't we have what we had in the AE era etc... why can't talents have creative freedom anymore and they are so controlled and restricted ... answer, social media ... they backlash everything and a talent can easily slip up innocently and be taken into a completely different context by social media, which does happen a lot. :)

Wrestling is the scapegoat for all that is wrong with entertainment and the media today. People don't blink an eye regarding the Walking Dead, Southern Fried Homicide, etc...but since wrestling is lowbrow we fans are seen as irrelevant and we are mocked for it. Meanwhile, with all the Real Housewives and Kardashian garbage running around today, I find it quite laughable that wrestling is the worst of them all in the eyes of many.

Could the WWE go back to the Attitude Era? Yes, but it would have to be the right elements coming together. While the AE was about Stone Cold, the Rock, Divas acting like strippers, edgy storylines, and other shit, it was more than just that. The stars aligned just right for everything to happen the way it did. Vince did what he did out of necessity in order to save his product. Keep in mind, he willingly catered to the children and their parents during the era of Hulkamania and later the New Generation. It made him big money. However, when the NWO came around and WCW got a little edgier with their storylines, Vince knew he had to do something. He didn't have the money that Turner's coffers did, so he went balls out. It happened to be lightning in a bottle for him.

Believe me, if WWE tomorrow decided to re-launch a new Attitude Era, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if those that whined and moaned about not being edgy enough would complain (wait for it) that it isn't working.

Cena going back to the white rapper days when he questioned wrestlers' genitalia and manhood? "Cena's no Stone Cold when it comes to challenging authority."

The re-creation of the Authority? "Triple H is no Vinnie Mac!" We hear that now.

Bellas' going full-on freaky in the ring? "This garbage reminds me of the days of Sable, Sunny, and Lita...only they had more talent!"

I guarantee you, those people will never be happy. This is the type of fan that Vince McMahon goes after now, he has always gone after (with the exception of those years where he was afraid of losing everything), and will continue to go after.
You're right, but the backlash if they went back to the AE isn't possible, maybe the WWE have dug this hole themselves but they probably didn't expect social media to evolve the way it did either so didn't expect that, just one of those things I guess :)
 
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#48 · (Edited)
Wrestling is the scapegoat for all that is wrong with entertainment and the media today. People don't blink an eye regarding the Walking Dead, Southern Fried Homicide, etc...but since wrestling is lowbrow we fans are seen as irrelevant and we are mocked for it. Meanwhile, with all the Real Housewives and Kardashian garbage running around today, I find it quite laughable that wrestling is the worst of them all in the eyes of many.

Could the WWE go back to the Attitude Era? Yes, but it would have to be the right elements coming together. While the AE was about Stone Cold, the Rock, Divas acting like strippers, edgy storylines, and other shit, it was more than just that. The stars aligned just right for everything to happen the way it did. Vince did what he did out of necessity in order to save his product. Keep in mind, he willingly catered to the children and their parents during the era of Hulkamania and later the New Generation. It made him big money. However, when the NWO came around and WCW got a little edgier with their storylines, Vince knew he had to do something. He didn't have the money that Turner's coffers did, so he went balls out. It happened to be lightning in a bottle for him.

Believe me, if WWE tomorrow decided to re-launch a new Attitude Era, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if those that whined and moaned about not being edgy enough would complain (wait for it) that it isn't working.

Cena going back to the white rapper days when he questioned wrestlers' genitalia and manhood? "Cena's no Stone Cold when it comes to challenging authority."

The re-creation of the Authority? "Triple H is no Vinnie Mac!" We hear that now.

Bellas' going full-on freaky in the ring? "This garbage reminds me of the days of Sable, Sunny, and Lita...only they had more talent!"

I guarantee you, those people will never be happy. This is the type of fan that Vince McMahon goes after now, he has always gone after (with the exception of those years where he was afraid of losing everything), and will continue to go after. To go back to those days without the right people would just simply mean, in the eyes of those fans, that Vince is just trying to re-copy those days as he has nothing else to offer. They will forever compare this Attitude Era to the original one. The sequels almost always never live up to the role of the original.
 
#50 · (Edited)
This is the type of fan that Vince McMahon goes after now, he has always gone after (with the exception of those years where he was afraid of losing everything), and will continue to go after.
I don't know how much I agree with the rest of your post, but you couldn't be more right about this. It could be argued that the Attitude Era was the worst thing that could've happened to Vince's long-term vision of what he wanted the company to be, because it resulted in a generation of fans convinced of the patently false idea that an edgy product geared towards 18-40-year-old dudes was what was "normal" for WWE, and a sanitized product geared towards families and kids, with the goal of attracting sponsors and partners from "respectable" corporations, is a recent and unprecedented anomaly born from the complaints of "the PC police." Why does WWE attract complaints that shows like The Walking Dead or the late Breaking Bad don't? Because those shows are not meant to be watched by children, and WWE television is.
 
#52 ·
I have to say you're all coming out with great posts and keeping it really respectful and I respect that, so thank you.

It's nice to have discussion in regards to these things, as well as of course see genuine insight which comes to light here, it makes a lot of sense really and is quite easy to understand, however thanks to all who have contributed here also, and kept it respectable, I appreciate that as it's how it should be :)
 
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#54 ·
Honestly, I would say the RA era from a personal perspective, however I do understand where people want the AE parts back, I wouldn't be opposed to certain elements of the AE but I'd prefer it with more substance, I like wrestling, I love wrestling so I want to see a good product without the need for sleaze and all that which makes it tacky or cheapens the product, however in regards to a little edginess that the AE brought, I'm all for it and not opposed to it really, so it's a case of that for me.

For example, I really enjoyed the Punk/Jericho storyline, I'd rather have that than some cheesy love angle storyline or just something corny in general, it felt like they were really fighting over something where as now, it sometimes doesn't seem to have a purpose and the edginess kind of brought that.

It doesn't need to be over the top, it doesn't even need to be a lot, but an element of it, I wouldn't be opposed to, I don't need blood to enjoy a match, though when it is there it does make it better for me when it's done sparingly, for example, I wouldn't mind seeing a Flair/Foley Summerslam 2007 match happen again ... but once in a blue moon makes it special, I think there comes to a point where it becomes overdone and desperate, but an element of it is fine.

The main part for me is good storylines and compelling matches, as long as i've got that, I'm fine personally, but with the freedom to add a little edginess in here and there, I feel is a bonus.

A nice balance really I think, it doesn't even need a lot, as I say, just an element of it is like, cool :)
 
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