I was watching UFC earlier tonight. Before the fight they were showing the tale of the tape. I started thinking of who should get the push (as if it were wrestling)
Lyoto Machida is 36. I feel his time has passed, even though he was ranked #2 . He has become way too defensive in some past fights for my liking. He has a bigger fan base, much more of the fans were for him. He has a cool unique style.
Luke Rockhold is 30. He was ranked #4 . I haven't seen him fight as much, but he is solid. I enjoy watching how fighters break the other down. So I'm not bored by one striking getting a take down and working wrestling or BJJ for a finish.
(spoiler alert if you don't want to know who won)
In wrestling thoughts... Push Machida for one last title run because he has a bigger fan base... Push Rockhold because he is the future and Machida's time is up.
Well Rockhold won fairly easily. In wrestling terms, it was a squash. It got me thinking more about booking wrestling. I mean, if that was WWE, we'd argue about who should've won. Machida's fans would be upset. But in real life, either man can win, so either can make sense. I mean, this was #2 vs #4 so no upset. But in this case, a push of either would be okay. One last run for Machida .. or .. Machida puts Rockhold over to challenge for the UFC Middleweight Belt.
Because you'll start to wonder if other sports are scripted. You'll start watching basketball and wonder "why is THAT team doing so well when the other team has better players" and you'll start to really suspect that it's all scripted. \
Baseball did this to me years ago. I would watch the World Series and see a team with a 3-1 lead in the series, lose the next three in a row in a come from behind victory for the other...and then it would happen again the next year...and the next....
See, 7 games of the series being played translates into more revenue for baseball instead if it had ended on game 5. Plus a dramatic "can they do it" come from behind victory puts viewers into watching. You'll start thinking the whole thing is scripted. I truly don't believe it is, but there is that small doubt.
THEN you get into gambling. I've read about players intentionally screwing up often to cover the point spreads for a payoff, especially in college ball where they don't make any money. This is easy to get players to do in games that are meaningless. Let's say your team is favored by 20 or more. You intentionally miss shots, or scoring points, etc. to keep under that 20 so the gamblers can collect.
Boxing is easiest to do that with as you only have to buy out one guy. You don't have a rest of a team that can spoil the bet. That's why nobody takes boxing seriously anymore, that and MMA and UFC stealing viewers. I've personally watched fights that I know were fixed as there was no way to explain what happened except that. Watch George Foreman vs Michael Moorer sometime. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0-WR3qcWp4
And let us not forget the 1918 World Series, Chicago White Sox vs Cincinnati Reds. 7 players from the White Sox were bought off to lose the series and an 8th knew about it. Arnold Rothstein, a future bootlegger who would work with Lucky Luciano's gang(and be killed due to it by Mad Dog Cole), but already rich, was the main culprit in the payoff. Most of the players assumed they were only to blow 2 games, but it became clear towards the end they were to lose the whole thing. I think it ended in game 8(they played best of 9 in the series then)at 5-3 with Cincinnati winning it. The resulting scandal had all 8 men suspended for life from baseball.
Watch the movie 8 men out for more.
Then we have Pete Rose, who can't get in the Hall of Fame because his gambling was found out.
I use certain terms outside of Wrestling, like Face/Heel Turn. I used the word "bury" to describe someone saying negative things about something and the person I was talking to didn't understand the context I was using the word in.
And for fuck's sake, the OP never said UFC wasn't real! Somebody needs to let go of their hang-ups. So tired of posters twisting around words. Sometimes you can't post anything on here without someone hung up on some minor detail, and completely ignores the real subject.
I use certain terms outside of Wrestling, like Face/Heel Turn. I used the word "bury" to describe someone saying negative things about something and the person I was talking to didn't understand the context I was using the word in.
I posted on facebook the other day. Wrote "Kayfabe" and then posted a video about lip synching in the music industry. How common it is for live concerts and auto tune for records.
@ Arc. If English is your first or second language I don't see how you could get that from my post.
Cool info about Sayama and Funaki. UFC uses a lot of what Boxing always has. There are matches made where they hope they get a certain outcome. You see it when Dana says fighter "A" will get a title shot if he wins. Why not say the winner gets a title shot? Because only one of them will make a good title fight and bring in money.
My post was more about how it was fun to think of something non wrestling in a wrestling way. Some overlap in match making.
Oh for sure Dana wants to make the fights that would get the most eyeballs, but at the end of the day he's completely powerless to whatever happens, did you not remember his face after Cain beat Brock or when Rampage dropped Liddell?
I feel like you think you're teaching me things I know. How about I rephrase my post.
Earlier tonight, I was watching UFC. I was thinking about how wrestling works and how WWE or some other pro wrestling organization would book the finish of the Machida-Rockhold fight. (Which I understand was a real fight)
MMA promotes and runs just like pro wrestling events. MMA was essentially started by pro wrestlers. Tiger Mask (Satoru Sayama) wanted to make a fighting organization based around pro wrestling. Later we got PANCRASE (Masakatsu Funaki) and the UFC. There were other events but those were the first main stays in MMA.
They market the same way and it's a sport where things can shift quickly so it makes sense.
Are you wanting us to give our own '"wrestling mindset outside of wrestling" examples?
I was just posting a thought I had last night after the fighters came to the ring. The commentators said something along the lines of "the fight starts in a minute. We'll be right back" During the two :30 second commercials, I just thought how wrestling would book it or how Dana White MIGHT be hoping for one out come over another.
I guess it is about how during this past WM, so many posters felt that only one outcome would make sense for each match. In a legit sport, you can win/lose/draw. (I'm not defending WWE booking.) There are a few threads on here about how bad the fans are. I've posted I think many vocal wrestling fans are not sports fans. That's why they like crazy spots rather than a story being told in the ring. Sports fans understand either man/team can win (as long as they are fairly equal.)
I'm watching the Celtics/Cavs NBA game. They showed a picture of Tom Brady, QB of Patriots in NFL. I was typing so I didn't see it, but he had on Celtic gear when he was a kid. Apparently he had on Under Armor clothing brand too, which wasn't around then. So it's been photo shopped. The smoke and mirrors of professional wrestling or trickery is used in the real world.
@ Shadowcran. Nice post. Thought about all that at one time or another. I don't think NFL, NBA, MLB are scripted. I do think people are put in positions to make one result more likely. I don't think other sports are fixed, but a lot of money involved, big business.
(a) Longer series means more money. NBA seems to put referee Joey Crawford in games when they want the road team to win. He seems to not like the crowd getting on him, so he'll call for road team to stick it to the crowd. There was a website that told the record for home/away teams when each referee calls. That is useful information come play off time.
(b) Gambling. Agree, it seems more likely to talk a player into "shaving" points than it would be to "throw a game." This was touched on in movie "BLUE CHIPS" and also look at Henry Hill and Boston College basketball during 1978-79. I love the movie "EIGHT MEN OUT", it does show how players can be talked into or tricked into doing something like that. Throw the first two games of a 9 game series in which you feel you can come back. Why not? You need money and back then owners didn't treat players well. Not defending the Black Sox, just understand how one could be scared of Chicago Mob back then.
(c) Boxing. Has a corrupt history with plenty blame to share amongst boxers, managers, and judges. You think Moorer threw that? I remember Foreman just landing a big punch late. I'll go back and look at the video. Some feel Sonny Liston to a dive vs Ali. Others just think he got old in the ring.
(d) My understanding is Pete Rose had a running bet on the Reds. Before the year he made the bet. So if the Reds went 81-81 he broke even. Certainly, you don't want a MLB manager betting though.
(e)Sumo wrestlers fix matches all the time. They have a system where top three advance or get paid. So they look after each other. Plenty of information on the web.
A-I don't think they're fixed but being a wrestling fan gives you that small doubt sometimes.
B-Back then? I'd be afraid of the Chicago mob NOW,lol. They're just as potent and the political machine there is scary and seems to go back to Al Capone. On the flip, the Chicago Mob historically is seen by all other mafia as the black sheep of the Underworld. I'd seen Blue Chips so that influenced my original statement...and I had forgotten that. I've read Wiseguys many times as the movie, Goodfellas, didn't have the point shaving incidents. Want an even better read, get Casino with Frank "Lefty" Rosenthal. The book, of course, details a lot more about the guy. He once took the 5th 37 times in a Senate hearing..he wouldn't even acknowledge he was left handed...
C-I watched that Moorer match several times and that "lucky punch" looked like one of Big Slow's KO punches..slow with no force. Boxing is too easy to fix, especially when both boxers are on the payroll of the same promoter..
D- Yeah, Pete Rose fubared his own Hall of Fame
E- I didn't know that about sumo. I'll try and look more into it. I did see the Yokozuna(I don't remember which one) lose to one of the almost jobber sumo wrestlers once and wondered WTH? It could be due to that Yokozuna being offset by the other one's speed though as the other one was very fast.
Recall that even game shows were fixed, 21 being the most famous. Producers do that type of thing to make the show more watchable by having 'crowd favorites' win. Those with "the look".
If UFC was fake I would base it around lots of high paced excited brawls and wrestling slams and submissions with no boring Jiu Jitsu crap and there would be no weight limmits or rules so it will be just like UFC in the early days.
My Dream UFC Main Event Roster
Rampage Jackson
Tank Abbott
Randy Courture
Mark Coleman
Kimbo Slice
Bob Sapp
Brock Lesnar
Frank Mir
I have seen teams lose on purpose to an inferior team at the end of the season to try and knock off a different team. MMA might have real fights but fighters are where they are at for a reason. That's why Bellator fed jobbers to Lashley. They wanted Lashley going over and looking strong. So as real as sports are, they can still be manipulated.
The best way to have a winning team is have a large budget and throw millions of dollars at the best players. Franchise.
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
Wrestling Forum
23.4M posts
266.5K members
Since 2002
A forum community dedicated to all Wrestling enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about WWE, AEW, Ring of Honor, Impact and all forms of professional and amateur wrestling.