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Thinking the female wrestling is not a draw is not misogny

7K views 100 replies 41 participants last post by  Billy8383 
#1 ·
It is pure economics. Male fans overwhelmingly prefer male wrestling. Male sports fans prefer male sports teams. WWE has a higher ratio of male fanbase. Something can be good but the audience might prefer something else.

You can argue the whole wrestling business is misogynistic and even misandry in the portrayal of women and men in barely anything beating up each other. But stop labelling anyone who don't think women wrestling is a draw just because your favourite Diva start picking up a cause due to an Oscar acceptance speech.

What is ironic is all these whiteknights for their favourite female wrestlers are the same people that degrade certain male wrestlers for having a higher female:male fanbase. Female fans are not as important or their tastes are worse than yours? Who is being misogynistic here?
 
#8 ·
Exactly and look at the results for even a niche product like TNA when it was more popular than it is today when they they were emphasizing the Knockouts as an alternative to the divas:

Last Thursday’s edition of iMPACT! drew a 1.14 rating, with an average audience of 1.5 million viewers. Despite the star power of various former WWE stars and home-grown stars, not to mention the “Deal or No Deal” briefcase storyline that took place throughout the show, the top-rated quarter hour of the show featured the match between Velvet Sky & Angelina Love vs. Ms. Brooks and Ms. Jackie Moore. Their segment drew an impressive 1.3 rating, which looks to be the high-rated, non-gimmick quarter hour in the history of iMPACT! (non-gimmick means when it’s not measuring based on another show, such as the lengthy CSI overrun that ran the week before, or the first quarter hour after UFC’s Ultimate Fighter). This marks the second week in a row in which the women’s match was the highest-rated portion of iMPACT! as the Gail Kim vs. ODB match with the Awesome Kong run-in gained 165,000 viewers and drew a 1.27 rating. The show’s overall rating was a 1.09.
http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/212745-senshis-tna-release-knockouts-drawing-huge-ratings


- The TNA Knockouts continue to draw well in the ratings. The Knockout’s Rumble for a title shot on the July 17th edition of Impact gained 264,000 viewers from the previous segment. The segment peaked at a 1.25 rating, which would be the company’s highest quarter hour in months.
http://411mania.com/wrestling/tna-news-knockouts-continue-to-draw-video-game-news-and-more/


The Daizee Haze vs. Cheerleader Melissa (also known as Raisha Saaed) match from the 5/1 iMPACT! managed to draw more viewers than the show’s main event match, which featured all three headliners for tomorrow night’s Sacrifice pay-per-view no less. The Haze vs. Melissa match drew a 1.10 rating. [The main event later in the show featuring Joe & Angle vs. Steiner & Williams drew a 0.99 rating
http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/206473-tna-knockouts-drawing-big-ratings-impact-vs-ecw-more

The story of the show is that the Knockouts were given the main event final quarter hour slot for the first time and they delivered with a show-high 1.18 rating.
http://www.pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/TNA_News_1/article_26422.shtml
 
#28 · (Edited)
I think people need to define what they mean when they say "draw". Draw as in being THE main reason the majority is paying for a ticket, or draw as in something that people in general will pay to see, just not necessarily the MAIN thing they are paying to see? Because TBH it's quite clear that there are tons of people who pay to see their favorite women's wrestlers, and you'd have to be an idiot to say women's wrestling isn't a draw in that aspect.

Now can women's wrestling be a draw like Rock vs Austin status? I'm talking THE reason people paying to see the show over everyone else? Sure, maybe if the right women come along and they were given more time plus the right storylines. But if we are going to go down that road then women like Paige, AJ, Charlotte, Sasha Banks, Natalya, and all those women in NXT better step up their game even more, because IMO as great as those women are when they give it their all, they do not compare when guys like Seth, Ambrose, Bray, Ziggler, Cesaro, Zayn, Neville, Bryan, Brock, etc. are allowed to go full on as well.

I think one day you'll see women outshining the men, but IMO I doubt it'll be this generation of women. There is just no way anyone can convince me that Paige, AJ, Charlotte, etc. are better wrestlers than the current top males or even equal in skill. That's not to say that the women don't work JUST as hard and give it their all like the men do, but heart and passion doesn't = skill.
 
#33 ·
In general, men are bigger, stronger, faster. We want to see amazing feats of strength and athleticism and in general, men are better equipped genetically to deliver on the desires of the sports viewing audience.

It's not just the WWE, but it's all sports. Women sports just don't matter as much to the general viewing public. So there's little media coverage and sponsorships. Ultimately the sponsorships or money that can be made off a particular form of entertainment will determine how much can be invested in that form of entertainment. There's just no momentum here.

Why should the WWE stick their neck out to invest more in women when it doesn't work in other forms of sports from basketball to football to baseball. ESPN barely covers women's sports. There just isn't as big a demand in the market for it.

If you look at the highest paid female athletes in the world, 7 of the top 10 are tennis players, 1 is a figure skater, 1 is a golfer, and the other is a race car driver.

If we compare the top earner in each category to their male counterpart, here's how it looks:

Tennis
Maria Sharapova - $24M
Roger Federer - $56M

Golf
Paula Creamer - $5M
Tiger Woods - $61M

NASCAR
Danica Patrick - $15M
Dale Earnhardt Jr - $25M

Figure Skating
Kim Yuna - $16M
No Idea?

So from the looks of it, it's fringe sports where women get paid. No boxers, UFC fighters etc are the top paid women's athletes. Figure skating is an area where there's lots of women and no men. So perhaps women should create their own niche sports that matter to people if they want to get attention and paid.

NASCAR is the next closest and Danica plays vs the boys. Perhaps if women want to make it in wrestling, they should compete in the same matches as the men. I just read a thread this week with lots of people telling me that believability doesn't matter in the WWE, so why not let Paige beat Daniel Bryan in a match if that's true? Perhaps that would elevate women's wrestling and put it more on par with the men. Then you could start treating women like the men just like Danica. And since believability doesn't matter, perhaps you just let Paige be the one to beat Brock Lesnar. And you can pay her more in the process. Cause this is just scripted afterall. Nevermind that she can't even pick Brock up cause believability doesn't matter to most people around here ;)
 
#37 ·
I think prize money over total earnings is a better measurement of equality with regards to how the gender issue is approached by the sports. Tennis is getting there. Almost all the Grand Slams are approaching equal prize money for men and women. Not really sure about the rest.
 
#35 ·
It's all in how they build their female performers. They aren't a complete draw in themselves because they don't have anything compelling in their characters or their storylines. Their moves are dumbed down to make the other less able divas, who should just be valets, look better.

Trish vs Lita was a draw and given the right writing and freedom to perform Paige vs Charlotte or AJ vs Stephanie CAN be a draw.

And yeah^^ right fucking on, Ronda can main event ufc fight night's ... women's fighting is a draw, if we invest in it or are encouraged too.
 
#98 ·
Male athletes in basically every sport in the world make more money and have more fans than their female counterparts.

Look at the WNBA.. nobody watches it, not even women... the only reason they stay in business is the NBA helps front its bills. Are WNBA players not given a fair chance? Nope, the men are bigger, stronger, faster and put on a better show.


Is it sexist that the men earn so much more? Of course not.. they EARN more because people want to watch them and pay to do so.
 
#9 ·
You are wrong. Males do not prefer male wrestling. That has never been true at least not for most of us. They just book the women so terribly that we just don't care about them. I enjoy a good womens wrestling match and I don't enjoy it less because they are female. Given the proper time and booking the women can often outshine the men like on NXT. That fatal four way for the Womens championship was one of my favorite matches of the night.
 
#48 ·
I watch Total Divas.

I'm not misogynistic.

I love bitches, I like Rousey, I think she is hot. Do I delude myself and say she is this huge draw? No. Because I looked at her buyrates and outside of co-maining Silva/Weidman 2, her solo PPV buyrates are low.

Delusional people championing a failed cause is being delusional.

Also, wasn't people shitting on The Bellas getting all this screen time just a few months ago?

Follow the hashtag I guess,
 
#53 · (Edited)
I watch Total Divas.

I'm not misogynistic.

I love bitches, I like Rousey, I think she is hot.

I think you just gave yourself away as a troll there.

 
#52 ·
Everybody knows female wrestling is not a draw, even diva fans.. They just won't admit it because they want them to be utilized more... If female wrestling drew WWE would use them more. They've utilized them in the past and failed to draw big for WWE.. They don't deserve equal pay, they don't deserve more TV time.
 
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#56 ·
Everybody knows female wrestling is not a draw, even diva fans.. They just won't admit it because they want them to be utilized more... If female wrestling drew WWE would use them more. They've utilized them in the past and failed to draw big for WWE.. They don't deserve equal pay, they don't deserve more TV time.
It's not a draw because it's booked that way. They are booked in lame storylines and wrestle in shitty matches for 3 minutes on a 180-minute show.

When I watch NXT, I'm looking forward to see the girls wrestle. Why? Because they are booked properly. They are good athletes and they have about 5 to 10 minutes each week on a 50-minute show. They are booked EACH WEEK for the same respectable amount of time. They don't fight over a man or who has the better dress, they fight for the championship and to prove themselves. They have storylines that appeal to the whole audience (yes, including male) because they aren't treated as jokes. The NXT girls have proven to be a popular attraction. They get chants, they get pops and they are booked as a co-main-eventers, along with the men and the NXT Championship.

I'm a straight male that enjoys good wrestling, which happens to also include good female wrestling. I want to see the Divas succeed like the girls in NXT. Is it *that* absurd to ask?
 
#82 ·
What's laughable about the "they can make two minutes work!" brigade... there are only two guys in the history of wrestling that actually got over with short match times: Warrior and Goldberg. Two guys out of the history of wrestling who's gimmicks were built around squashing people.... that's it. And yet the women are supposed to suddenly trump that to prove themselves? What the fuck?!
 
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#93 ·
It is less of a draw and probably will always be slightly less well received than male wrestling (especially Western wrestling and how pro-wrestling is viewed and formatted), buuuuuut that doesn't mean these women deserve mistreatment, poor booking, literally less than a minute to perform, and just all around negligible treatment.

Bad booking is an issue as a whole with WWE, but the main roster women have it particularly bad and just because they're not a massive draw doesn't mean they shouldn't be showcased more.

Hell, with that logic then guys like Swagger or Barrett should have 30 second matches because they're not as big of draws as Cena or Bryan or Reigns.
 
#13 ·
Stephanie/Brie/Nikki angle main evented Raw more than once this past summer and ratings bombed and reviews of the feud were really bad.

WWE was attempting to make the division more prominent and they got backlash over it.

Does no one remember this?

I guess it's easy to just jump on the bandwagon now that NXT's girls have got some attention.

Of course in doing so people are completely ignoring the fact that NXT is on the internet and Raw/Smackdown are on TV were the audiences preferences are not necessarily the same. :shrug
 
#14 ·
I doubt the day will come, where i am more impressed with a woman's wrestling than Brock Lesnar's abilities.But not every male wrestler has the power, speed and athleticism of Bork, either.

Actually, if WWE put more effort into their "Divas" wrestling and story-lines, i'll like them more than Roman Reigns for example.In fact, i used be a huge fan of Lita and Trish, and i still like them more than most of the current male roster.
 
#19 ·
I think AJ Lee draws more than Heath Slater, Big E, Kofi Kingston, Rowan, Axel, Otunga, Fandango, Swagger, Truth, Sin Cara, Titus etc; and I'm sure their guaranteed earnings aren't that different.

If you are going to hire women, use them correctly. If you don't want to showcase women's wrestling, don't have a women's division. Simple.
 
#21 ·
The fact that the WWE divas haven't been put in a position to even have a chance of drawing in years means its wholly unfair to even say that they don't draw.

How can you say anyone is not a draw when they haven't even been booked to be given a chance to draw?
 
#26 ·
Everyone is entitled to what they can or not like. If not supporting what you like puts a distasteful label on me such as "misogynist", then you are just simply trying to feed your ego or pride because you just feel mad or uncomfortable about the fact that some cant agree with what you want or what you think.

Having said that, of course a good segment between female wrestlers is going to be a big draw and I am all for that but by comparison, the bigger draw in WWE will always be from a good segment between male wrestlers.

However with RAW airing for 3 hours, its beyond ridiculous how they are managing the Diva's division. I 100% agree that they should be given more attention to this by booking better story lines and giving more time instead lame bitchy segments which I really hate.
 
#31 ·
There's a very noticable difference between an elite male athlete and an elite female athlete. More people will want to watch Brock Lesnar than Paige because he does things almost no-one else on the planet could do. When people watch an athlete, bigger, stronger, faster is better.

The tide is turning a little these days with the growing popularity of the women's division in the UFC, but women's sports are often like diet soda. A lot of people love diet soda and it definitely has a place, but a lot of people just want "the real thing". There are undoubtedly extraordinary female athletes in the world (look at Ronda Rousey), but the general quality is higher when watching the male equivalent.

Wrestling is a little more difficult to compare because it's scripted. I'm sure there are women out there that can fly just as well as Adrian Neville, or chain wrestle like Tyson Kidd. When it comes to power wrestling though, who do you want to watch? Brock Lesnar or Nikki Bella?
 
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