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Was Orton given as much as Reigns when he started?

8K views 102 replies 50 participants last post by  p862011 
#1 · (Edited)
I like Orton but with all the Reigns hate, I've been thinking that Orton was pushed just as hard if not harder. I'm not too familiar with Randy's early career but I think HHH took a liking to him and took him under his wing. Randy joined Evolution in 03 and became IC champion. Then at 24 he was the youngest world champion in WWE history. He was HHH and Vince's favorite early on. They changed the wellness policy so he wouldn't be fired. The last several years has been a little stagnant but he was definitely pushed in 03 and 04. I think the difference between Orton and Reigns is that Randy is much better in the ring.
 
#9 ·
Well, Randy Orton actually came in pretty humbly and within the year worked up to a joking match against Taker for the belt (again I emphasize joking) and got killed by Brock once. Orton in 03 joined Evolution and had an IC title reign that solo-wise has eclipsed everything Reigns has done so far in quality with his legend killer run showing glimpses of his now great, smooth ring talent and charisma (two things Reigns has yet to show he has). If we wanna drag it out to 04, Orton worked a nice little program with Jack and had a TREMENDOUS match at Backlash that many including myself consider the best of his career, later won the world title from Benoit in another tremendous match, then had a nice breaking with HHH. I add if we wanna compare Reigns to Orton from a year one Shield/Evo standpoint that Orton like everyone on Raw was behind HHH in "the HHH show", and while it is debatable I'd say given the commentary that Batista was billed over Orton, even though Orton broke out first. while the Shield started pretty equally, eventually, Reigns became the far and away focal point to where at the end with Evolution and the Punk "so you think you are the leader" run, Reigns was clearly billed at the top by a wide margin.


Orton his first year certainly didn't break the royal rumble record, nearly solo a survivor series team, take out three former world champions, beat the hottest heel in the company squeaky clean nor be a fixture of the world title scene. When Orton started receiving real top guy accolades in 04, Orton had showed a whole lot of promise and had done great work. Reigns solo has only had a few decent matches, in my opinion no "good" solo matches, hasn't shown much entertainment value beyond an impactful, limited moveset and some intensity, nor has Reigns even had one good program or promo, yet Reigns is going to be slotted to win a royal rumble and be WH champ over one of the most accomplished wrestlers all time in Cena or a monster in Brock. Remember, by the time the Orton/Taker feud rolled around, Orton had lightyears on current Reigns in terms of in ring ability and had a better resume in terms of entertainment value. Hell, you wanna compare Reigns now to Orton 03 in terms of ability, I will still give Orton the edge. I'm not "hating" on Reigns, I want him to succeed, but what I state shouldn't be disputed.

Funny though, I've preached for months that Reigns is disadvantaged due to a lack of fundamentally solid ring veterans of the WWE style to teach Reigns and help him along, Orton had a tremendous advantage in that on his way to the top before the belt, he got to learn first hand from one of the greatest heels all time in Flar, a marquee talent in HHH, worked Taker in a match very early on, worked a stint with one of the greatest in ring showmen/performers in HBK, had interaction with so many legends, worked extensively with one of the businesses' all time best all around talents in Foley as well. Orton was brought up the way a guy with tremendous potential should be and was lucky to come up in his time.
 
#4 ·
Some would say yes and others would say no. It depends on perspective.

On the one hand, he was put over huge while he was in Evolution. He got lots of TV time and main event exposure, he got put over by numerous legends, he won an epic feud against Foley, he was the longest reigning Intercontinental Champion in 7 years, he beat Benoit to become the youngest World Heavyweight Champion in WWE history, he was the sole survivor at three straight Survivor Series PPV's, he had a historic feud with Undertaker, and he came close to ending the streak at WrestleMania 21.

On the other hand, he was often used as the fall guy in Evolution (to keep Triple H and Batista looking strong), he lost numerous times to HBK on RAW, he lost cleanly to Edge twice for the Intercontinental Championship, he got kicked out of Evolution and forced to be a face when he wasn't ready for it, he lost the World Heavyweight Championship to Triple H only a month after winning it, he lost to all the members of Evolution at various stages, he lost all the title matches he was in with Triple H, he got drafted to Smackdown, he lost the WrestleMania and Hell in a Cell matches to Undertaker (the most important matches of the feud), he lost to Rey at the Royal Rumble and WrestleMania 22, he got his ankle broken by Angle, and he lost to Hogan at Summerslam.

If you compare his push to the average guy in WWE, he had a huge push in his early career. But if you compare it to the rocket pushes that Cena and Batista received, Orton was too often booked to lose when he was on the cusp of becoming a huge star.
 
#11 · (Edited)
At least Orton was putting on awesome 20 minute matches against Shawn Michaels, Rob Van Dam, Shelton Benjamin, Edge, Mick Foley, and Chris Benoit at the time he first won the WHC. He wasn't carried in those matches like the way he carried Reigns in their Summerslam match this year. Also, his promos were really good back then.

The point is that despite being a little too young for the push they were giving him, he was more ready for it then as compared to how ready Roman Reigns is now. Randy Orton never had superman-level booking in his entire career either. He lost...a lot.
 
#103 ·
At least Orton was putting on awesome 20 minute matches against Shawn Michaels, Rob Van Dam, Shelton Benjamin, Edge, Mick Foley, and Chris Benoit at the time he first won the WHC. He wasn't carried in those matches like the way he carried Reigns in their Summerslam match this year. Also, his promos were really good back then.

The point is that despite being a little too young for the push they were giving him, he was more ready for it then as compared to how ready Roman Reigns is now. Randy Orton never had superman-level booking in his entire career either. He lost...a lot.
look who he was working with:punk2

reigns has to work with fucking over the hill kane and big show
 
#12 ·
Reigns ain't even held a singles title lol. All he has is this rumor that he's winning RR, beating Brock and holding the title for 500 days which could end up being bullsht. You know? Like last year u guys were so convinced that Batista was contractually obligated to win the belt at mania and cried for months about it.
 
#23 ·
Orton got more accolades than Reigns has (and has continued to rack up accolades during his career.)

However, he's never been booked very strongly as a consistent top-level star. He's had about Jericho-strength booking for most of his career, combined with an Edge-like number of transitional title reigns. He never got a long reign of strong booking. Ever.

Reigns is already the 2nd or 3rd strongest-booked guy on the roster despite having inferior skills overall to Orton at the same point in his career (even arguably Batista at the same stage of his career.)
 
#13 ·
What the fuck has Reigns been given exactly? :lmao

All this shit is just predictions, assumptions and speculation. Just wait and see. For all we know, WWE might be lining up Bryan vs Brock at WM with Bryan making a suprise Rumble return. WE DON'T KNOW.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Just in 2014 alone, Reigns has been given:
-Superstar of the year award
-A clean win over one of WWE's biggest stars at the 2nd biggest PPV event
-Participation in 2 WWE championship matches
-The record for eliminations in a Royal Rumble match
-A pinfall victory over CM Punk

Plus, he's had a tag team championship reign, 4 eliminations in the Survivor Series match last year, and plenty more pinfalls during his tenure with the Shield that I can't recall off the top of my head. It's quite clear that WWE is high on him, unfortunately.
 
#16 · (Edited)
Orton was kind of the Rollins of the group. During their build and mid card wise he was treated the best but once they started talking ME Vince went with his typical man crushes.

I think it's one of the most common misconceptions here that Orton's title run failed. It wasn't the case. They chose Batista as next guy so they ended up writing Orton off with that 1 month title reign. It gave him a respectable out and he got the consolation prize of a streak match afterwards. Plus it knocked a record off Brock Lesnar which is something they wanted to get off of him.
 
#24 ·
Given? No.

But Randy has supreme in ring talent to back it, which is why he wasn't 'given' as much as Reigns has been given
 
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#43 · (Edited)
I actually didn't watch a heck of a lot around the time Orton debuted, but I don't remember them giving him as much as they've given Reigns early on .. not even close. The legend killer gimmick essentially kept him away from burying existing roster stars and was a very unique way to push him to the moon without burying whatever was left of the roster.

No star was given most SVS eliminations and most Royal Rumble eliminations in the same year including 2 years of not being pinned cleaned.

This is a sort of Goldberg/Ultimate Warrior push going on (and Orton did not have that kind of push), but because it's so forced, the formula isn't working as well as it should. Also, it's gone on for 2 years whereas both Goldberg and Warrior had already peaked by the end of their first years.

Reigns is just not as much of a specimen nor is half as likeable as Warrior and Goldberg were. He looks literally half their size with essentially the same wrestling ability and that's really bad for him.

Lastly, back in those days wrestlers could get away with not being able to wrestle because the wrestling world had not seen good wrestlers nor were they as over-exposed.
 
#85 ·
Him jobbing to drop a title (so he can go win THE title) or this supposed clean job he did to Shelton on RAW that I have zero recollection of, is exactly what I'm talking about. This argument that he was "losing all the time" when he came up is complete bullshit.

He was one of the strongest booked people on the roster, and he had nothing to back it up since there was no size, charisma, or mic skills to justify a heel winning as much as he did.

So cite all of the "tag match losses" you want, he still barely jobbed clean in one on one matches during his initial push, and that was as a heel. Roman Reigns is getting similar treatment as a face.

I answered the question this thread asked, and I sat back and watched the Orton marks (which I don't understand how there are any) come in to make up all of this horse shit about him and all of the times he jobbed while coming up.
 
#2 ·
If I remember correctly, he was only WHC because of Brock leaving, which rustled Vince's jimmies. Apart from that, he actually received a pretty mediocre push. He was a jobber for a while, a cookie cutter babyface, and then joined evolution where he feuded with hbk and shit. He didn't get the Ic title for a good six months at least after joining evolution, and after he won the WHC, he lost it almost immediately and went back to doing nothing. He wasn't given a tenth of what reigns has been so far. And this is coming from a guy who is almost entirely against orton all the time.
 
#97 ·
So Brock leaving on Smack down affected Randy's win on RAW... Brock was never WHC before for one and he left a good 6 months before Orton even got the separate title that Brock never held

Also Orton was a multiple time IC champ by his 3rd year. He was put over by Hbk, Foley, Rock, and a few others. He definitely accomplished more than Reigns did by this point.
 
#5 ·
I think so. Randy Orton got Triple H as a mentor, the Intercontinental Title, and the World Heavy-Weight Championship. Roman Reigns got his Shield crew, set a Royal Rumble record, and was superstar of the year. Everything balances out. The only difference is that Randy Orton is more good looking.
 
#7 ·
The only difference is that Randy Orton is more good looking.
That's not the only difference. Yes, Orton's character might be a bit stale, but his toenail clippings have more talent than Reigns.
 
#14 ·
Rollins push now is pretty much equivalent to what Orton had in 2003-04, HHH's protege and carrying around the MITB instead of the IC title.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Lets see, 2 years into his career Orton was IC Champion(when it actually mattered), wrecking legends, and dominating the entire active roster in Evolution. 2 years into Reigns' career, he dominated the entire active roster sans The Wyatts with The Shield, his biggest scalp is Orton in the worst year of his career, and he's in the middle of a pointless feud with The Big Show :HHH2.
 
#27 ·
Randy was a heel so naturally he wasn't gonna be as dominate but he recieved a hell of a lot more meaningful booking than Reigns has. Reigns has looked unstoppable but who has he actually faced. What legit guys? Orton? During a time when Orton was booked pretty weak. His pinfall over cm punk where he was assisted by Dean for the win. Even his survivor series record isn't nearly as meaningful as Ziggler's survivor series triumph this year. Reigns hasn't been given much but you all can keep listing these stats
 
#28 ·
Nope, on paper maybe but Orton's push was honestly miniscule compared to Reigns current push.
 
#37 ·
Or ton wasn't even getting half the push reigns is getting he was booked the worst post evolution.
 
#40 ·
Well, it depends. Orton in his first years did get a decent push, but nothing over the top. Besides his WHC title win, he did nothing that relevant and historic, and lost a few matches.

Reigns is yet to be pinned cleanly and has the record for most Rumble eliminations in history. For now it's actually a bit comparable, Reigns' push still being a little better in terms of strong booking.

Now, if Reigns does get the push he's rumoured to get by Wrestlemania, then it won't even be comparable. It will probably be the biggest push in the history of the sport.
 
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