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post #81 of 107 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Which Full timer has threatened Cena's top face spot the most between 2006 and no

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Originally Posted by tailhook View Post
Anyone who tries to claim that X is/was a threat to Cena being Top Face, without also pointing out how said Face Main Evented WrestleMania instead of Cena(and I don't mean with), is just pissing into the wind.

Anybody can have a decent run with some heat. Its the Top Face that usually headlines the Showcase of the Immortals, because that's the guy they depend on to sell the most tickets.

The last 3 years its been:

John Cena
John Cena
John Cena

Note: Rock.. while being a Top Face.. was a tourist at this time and hardly a competition to Cena's crown. In fact, he was there to buff it.

And make no mistake, like the one dude said above, Bryan doing double duty and having two matches bigger than Cena's at WM(including the Main Event for the title) Is huge.

That alone should tell you he is not only as big a threat, but is probably surpassing him at this point... and has completely torched all other faces who were pretenders to the crown before him. John will still always have the Legacy Torch Status bestowed on him by The Rock, but the guy who stirs the drink will be Bryan for the foreseeable future, while Cena plays Gatekeeper to the top of the card and catches feuds with guys looking to get there.
Not to make something out of it. But yes and no imo. He was there to help (finally) cement Cena who lets be honest, wasn't even bought by the majority (Casuals, the audience the WWE really wants) to be in someone like the rock's league. The whole subplot to there feud was whether Cena could be in the rock's league and with Cena winning the title that (in kayfabe terms) confirmed it. And it worked in some ways because i've seen posts putting Cena behind The Rock Austin and Hogan for WWE megastardom.

For most of the feud, i'd say about 85 percent of the crowd was with The Rock and completely crapped on Cena. There are still people who chant "fruity pebbles" at Cena. The Rock was a part timer who's legacy/status was already set in stone between 2000-2003, so in terms of that he didn't need to prove anything or "threaten" Cena's spot. But make no mistake the Rock when on WWE programming, along with Taker could easily be argued as being higher on the pecking order in temporary terms than Cena come mania time. HOwever, they're part timers, so that's not apart of the convo.
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post #82 of 107 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 08:55 PM
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Re: Which Full timer has threatened Cena's top face spot the most between 2006 and no

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Did I say Punk had bigger reactions, I said Punk gets the louder name chanting and with Bryan it's more of a YES chant like Ryback with "Feed me more". As a name chanting and even as an entrance pop Punk wins most of the time, even in a duel. Whatever you try to say, Bryan isn't more popular than Punk, if that's the case then Bryan is more popular than Cena because he gets a louder reaction. In terms of crowds he gets the loudest in terms of catchphrase reactions easily. But in terms of merch and being more Mainstream Punk wins, go check google trends, Bryan is not even close to Punk. People don't search for Bryan and don't care enough about him. By the way Punk gets loud reactions, and the ones you gonna show me are moments when Bryan is chanting YES not an entrance pop or name chanting. Punk loud pops is not just in Chicago but also in many cities, and even in countries like Mexico and Eng.

Ratings aren't any high anyway. And his numbers aren't that high that's why ratings aren't getting any higher.

Dude Punk/Paul/Lesnar as a face is better than anything Bryan did as a face and Punk/Jericho promos was better too. Plus Punk didn't get to be a face long enough.
Punk's trends are up because he left the company. Bryan had articles published on him from websites like Washington Post, USA Today, and his chants is all over sports. Hell, there was a random Daniel Bryan chant during a random NCAA college game :https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10203591837099398 . Bryan was way more popular the last year. His new merch is already close to surpassing Cena's and it came out a month ago. And the moments I mentioned were not yes chants. People were chanting Bryan's name during the championship ascension ceremony (not Punk's), people were chanting for Bryan to face Cena for the title at Summerslam (not Punk), people were chanting for Bryan to win the Rumble (not Punk). Punk hasn't had any level of fandom close to that.

Bryan is already a better ratings mover than Punk ever was. His segments are gaining the most viewers no matter what slot he's in. His numbers aren't that high? two weeks ago he had the highest gain since Rock was on TV. Hell, Bryan was gaining the most ratings during the fall when Cena was off TV and when they were in direct competition with football. What happened the one week WWE took Cena off TV during the fall when Punk was champion? Oh yeah, the lowest non holiday RAW rating of all time happened : http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/W...l#.Uztf8lFdXbw
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post #83 of 107 (permalink) Old 04-01-2014, 10:28 PM
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Re: Which Full timer has threatened Cena's top face spot the most between 2006 and no

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Punk's trends are up because he left the company. Bryan had articles published on him from websites like Washington Post, USA Today, and his chants is all over sports. Hell, there was a random Daniel Bryan chant during a random NCAA college game :https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10203591837099398 . Bryan was way more popular the last year. His new merch is already close to surpassing Cena's and it came out a month ago. And the moments I mentioned were not yes chants. People were chanting Bryan's name during the championship ascension ceremony (not Punk's), people were chanting for Bryan to face Cena for the title at Summerslam (not Punk), people were chanting for Bryan to win the Rumble (not Punk). Punk hasn't had any level of fandom close to that.

Bryan is already a better ratings mover than Punk ever was. His segments are gaining the most viewers no matter what slot he's in. His numbers aren't that high? two weeks ago he had the highest gain since Rock was on TV. Hell, Bryan was gaining the most ratings during the fall when Cena was off TV and when they were in direct competition with football. What happened the one week WWE took Cena off TV during the fall when Punk was champion? Oh yeah, the lowest non holiday RAW rating of all time happened : http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/W...l#.Uztf8lFdXbw
Even before Punk left, he still trends more than him now. Those are from his hometown. Also that NCAA game it seems like it was a handful of guys or even just one guy chanting his name, that doesn't prove shit dude there is people that are wrestling fans that watch other sports . Other ones like when some team for DC telling the crowd to chant YES, fact is those guys chanted it because the player asked them not that they know him outside the business because they certainly don't give a damn about him. Plus why does that have to matter, Punk is more popular in his hometown than Bryan is in his place. Punk in 2011 for his pipebomb got higher mainstream than Bryan now, go check the google trends again. Nope Bryan merch is nowhere near Cena, Meltzer said he's far away number one. And in online orders Punk is still number 2 even tho he's not in the company. You can have your hopes but he's not gonna outsold Cena.

Really? you want to be that guy. Bryan was the only choice for Cena, chanting his name means nothing since he wasn't surrounded by any top star that matters. You think people will not chant for Punk if he was in Bryans position , he was feuding with Lesnar. In that case in one of Raw episodes people voted for Punk to face The Rock in the RR not Cena or Show or whatever the other guy was. People weren't chanting for Bryan to win the RR, people were chanting for him because he didn't appear, if Punk or even Reigns won the RR they will be fine with it but since Batista won they got mad. Keep on being delusional, if google trends or merch is not enough to prove Punk is still more popular or more mainstream than Bryan then I don't know what else I can say.

Seriously where do you get those from, it's not facts. Bryan numbers aren't that high, it isn't as high as Punk last year in 2013 with Rock, Cena and Taker. So stop with this shit. The one from two weeks ago was when there was 80-100 people in the ring which obviously had a lot of factor for it to be that high, it was something different and unique for the viewer to see. Other weeks even tho he might have had the highest of the show, it still isn't that high that's why the overall rating isn't as high as last year. By the way Batista was getting the highest ratings for 4 or 5 straight weeks starting from the day before the rumble and after the rumble. Last week had no Bryan but still had higher rating than the previous week. Plus the week prior that got a 2.96 rating which is the lowest RTWM rating in 18 years or so.

This is from the same article you showed. Bryan had more top stars than Punk in 2012 and it's not even debatable. Compare the roster in 2012 to 2013 and it's not the same. Fact is if you wanna use the saying with no Cena, well with no Cena HIAC had a good buy which was higher than the previous year. Punk is a bigger draw in buys compared to Bryan who did the lowest buys for the company history . Got saved by Cena/HBK return and without Punk/Lesnar in SS it would have been a disaster, easily the lowest ppv buy for SS .

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Caldwell's Analysis: It was clearly going to be a rough outing this week after last week's poor rating and Raw going against the Cowboys vs. Bears this week, but the reality of Raw's ratings situation is very startling. It should send WWE a few messages: the bill is coming due on WWE's procrastination developing the next John Cena or a combination of tip-top stars to fill the gap when he's off TV for even one week, they need to start taking better care of their stars who could be the next Cena, they have to create a hook for the following week because they're giving away everything and leaving viewers wanting nothing in this three-hour Raw era, and stars are being over-exposed. C.M. Punk has been in six major segments the past two weeks - it's just too much. Plus, add in a new TV show on Wednesdays and two hours of Smackdown after the Smackdown brand dominates Raw, and there's a lot of content to fill without a roster to handle the load and draw in an audience.
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post #84 of 107 (permalink) Old 04-02-2014, 01:28 AM
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Re: Which Full timer has threatened Cena's top face spot the most between 2006 and no

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Okay.. 99.9 percent is more accurate.



I'm sure you'd rather watch the circle jerk of Cena, HHH, and all the stars from yesteryear than guys like Punk and Bryan who are ultra talented, paid their dues, and actually resonate with the fan base. Oh well, I'm sure you canceling your subscription will cause Vince to suffer through many sleepless nights.
I like a lot of the new guys, Reigns, Wyatt, and man when Neville gets his call up that guy is going to be fantastic, as if he hasn't been for years already. There's nothing wrong with liking legacies either, Vince himself knows the value of that, look who had to carry WM 28 and 29. Not spending my money on a product I consider shit has nothing to do with giving VKM sleepless nights, it's called voting with your wallet.



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post #85 of 107 (permalink) Old 04-02-2014, 01:35 AM
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Re: Which Full timer has threatened Cena's top face spot the most between 2006 and no

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Originally Posted by Sonnen Says View Post
Even before Punk left, he still trends more than him now. Those are from his hometown. Also that NCAA game it seems like it was a handful of guys or even just one guy chanting his name, that doesn't prove shit dude there is people that are wrestling fans that watch other sports . Other ones like when some team for DC telling the crowd to chant YES, fact is those guys chanted it because the player asked them not that they know him outside the business because they certainly don't give a damn about him. Plus why does that have to matter, Punk is more popular in his hometown than Bryan is in his place. Punk in 2011 for his pipebomb got higher mainstream than Bryan now, go check the google trends again. Nope Bryan merch is nowhere near Cena, Meltzer said he's far away number one. And in online orders Punk is still number 2 even tho he's not in the company. You can have your hopes but he's not gonna outsold Cena.

Really? you want to be that guy. Bryan was the only choice for Cena, chanting his name means nothing since he wasn't surrounded by any top star that matters. You think people will not chant for Punk if he was in Bryans position , he was feuding with Lesnar. In that case in one of Raw episodes people voted for Punk to face The Rock in the RR not Cena or Show or whatever the other guy was. People weren't chanting for Bryan to win the RR, people were chanting for him because he didn't appear, if Punk or even Reigns won the RR they will be fine with it but since Batista won they got mad. Keep on being delusional, if google trends or merch is not enough to prove Punk is still more popular or more mainstream than Bryan then I don't know what else I can say.

Seriously where do you get those from, it's not facts. Bryan numbers aren't that high, it isn't as high as Punk last year in 2013 with Rock, Cena and Taker. So stop with this shit. The one from two weeks ago was when there was 80-100 people in the ring which obviously had a lot of factor for it to be that high, it was something different and unique for the viewer to see. Other weeks even tho he might have had the highest of the show, it still isn't that high that's why the overall rating isn't as high as last year. By the way Batista was getting the highest ratings for 4 or 5 straight weeks starting from the day before the rumble and after the rumble. Last week had no Bryan but still had higher rating than the previous week. Plus the week prior that got a 2.96 rating which is the lowest RTWM rating in 18 years or so.

This is from the same article you showed. Bryan had more top stars than Punk in 2012 and it's not even debatable. Compare the roster in 2012 to 2013 and it's not the same. Fact is if you wanna use the saying with no Cena, well with no Cena HIAC had a good buy which was higher than the previous year. Punk is a bigger draw in buys compared to Bryan who did the lowest buys for the company history . Got saved by Cena/HBK return and without Punk/Lesnar in SS it would have been a disaster, easily the lowest ppv buy for SS .


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post #86 of 107 (permalink) Old 04-02-2014, 03:51 AM
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Re: Which Full timer has threatened Cena's top face spot the most between 2006 and no

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I'd say it's Bryan, as he's the only one who has kept Cena out of the main event for a concerted time period and even then Cena's still in and around the main event match.

Difficult for me to comment on Orton's or Hardy's run as hardly watched those years but Punk was always a distant second to Cena. They never really ran with him in the main event. Punk was mid card champ while Cena was main eventing Mania with the Rock. That's no diss on Punk and I always thought his title matches would have been better PPV main events than Cena/Show or Cena/John Laurinatis but that's how he was positioned.
Undertaker, then I'd put Bryan. Though I agree Bryan's bigger than Punk, Cena is still bigger than Bryan now (not too sure though...). The only reason Bryan is getting the main even slot over Cena is to build for the future, Cena's getting old. Cena was more reliable 2 yrs ago. Its not because Bryan pushed him out of the spot, WWE desperately needs to build for the future. And holy shit is Daniel Bryan going to make WWE millions when he feuds with Reigns, Wyatt, Ambrose and so on. The dude makes everyone look gigantic.

WWE favorites: Punk, Sheamus, Lesnar, Ambrose, Rollins, Reigns,
Del Rio, Orton, Bryan, Ziggler, Wyatt, Usos, Cesaro, Mysterio, Kane
DGPW: Doi, Yoshino, Tozawa, Yamato, Dragon Kid, BxB Hulk, Ricochet, Super Shisa
NJPW: Okada, Nakamura, Styles ROH: Briscoes, Fish and O'Reilly, Young Bucks
All-Time: Rock, Punk, Lesnar, Angle

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post #87 of 107 (permalink) Old 04-02-2014, 04:36 AM
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Re: Which Full timer has threatened Cena's top face spot the most between 2006 and no

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Undertaker, then I'd put Bryan. Though I agree Bryan's bigger than Punk, Cena is still bigger than Bryan now (not too sure though...). The only reason Bryan is getting the main even slot over Cena is to build for the future, Cena's getting old. Cena was more reliable 2 yrs ago. Its not because Bryan pushed him out of the spot, WWE desperately needs to build for the future. And holy shit is Daniel Bryan going to make WWE millions when he feuds with Reigns, Wyatt, Ambrose and so on. The dude makes everyone look gigantic.
Guys never leave the top spot willingly. They're always pushed out, but always by someone who can handle it. Punk was never That Guy. He was simply too antisocial for the spot and as such, even having gotten a gigantic push from Cena, Cena ate Punks lunch and Main Event spots during Punk's so-called title reign. That had little to do with Cena himself and more to do with CM Punk. Punk simply couldn't consistently drive the bus in a compelling way such that creative wouldn't even think twice about having to give his spots to Cena. A belt is never defined by the length you hold it, but the quality of people and feuds you're able to defend it against.

Its one thing to get a company push. Its another to sustain it. For a guy of that level, the first will come, the second is largely due to the feuds you can pickup and the storylines you can drive.

And if they thought Phil Brooks could sell a WM Main Event, he would have been in one in a heartbeat.
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Re: Which Full timer has threatened Cena's top face spot the most between 2006 and no

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post #89 of 107 (permalink) Old 04-02-2014, 04:41 AM
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Re: Which Full timer has threatened Cena's top face spot the most between 2006 and no

It's obviously Brian. The best part to me is that with Bryan being in the main event has made Cena go down the card a little bit and has made him much more entertaining. I think taking some pressure off of Cena will make him much more enjoyable to watch in the long run. His character is still stale but his matches with guys like Cesaro and Harper recently have been fun to watch.
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post #90 of 107 (permalink) Old 04-02-2014, 06:32 AM
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Re: Which Full timer has threatened Cena's top face spot the most between 2006 and no

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Guys never leave the top spot willingly. They're always pushed out, but always by someone who can handle it. Punk was never That Guy. He was simply too antisocial for the spot and as such, even having gotten a gigantic push from Cena, Cena ate Punks lunch and Main Event spots during Punk's so-called title reign. That had little to do with Cena himself and more to do with CM Punk. Punk simply couldn't consistently drive the bus in a compelling way such that creative wouldn't even think twice about having to give his spots to Cena. A belt is never defined by the length you hold it, but the quality of people and feuds you're able to defend it against.

Its one thing to get a company push. Its another to sustain it. For a guy of that level, the first will come, the second is largely due to the feuds you can pickup and the storylines you can drive.

And if they thought Phil Brooks could sell a WM Main Event, he would have been in one in a heartbeat.
A lot of revisionist history going on here, Punk was red-hot in 2011 & could've been the man, however, he never got a clean win over Cena, & HHH nonsensically beats him at his height. You've kinda contradicted your own point when you state that "if they thought he could main event, he would've" That's precisely my point. Punk had all the tools, but the office were in a much more complacent Cena centric head space than they are now, Punk could've taken the ball, but they didn't want to move on from Cena.
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