Which Full timer has threatened Cena's top face spot the most between 2006 and now? - Page 8 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 04-01-2014, 05:06 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Default Re: Which Full timer has threatened Cena's top face spot the most between 2006 and no

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When I say name chanting not just now, as I mentioned since 2011, Punk is no doubt was/is getting louder name chanting than Bryan now or anyone else but since the YES chants is there he gets a louder overall reaction, to me if Punk did the YES chants it will be as loud. HHH was spot on about Fandango chants and even Ryback who was getting loud feed me more chants and they are just as loud as Bryan YES chants. Don't believe me go listen to them in YT. Fact is Punk wasn't a face that long, he turned heel in mid 2012. Punk is more likable than Bryan because his merch is outselling Cena a lot of times. Plus if you check FB a lot of people hate Bryan and think he doesn't belong there. I'm sick and tired of people saying Punk was just shooting that's completely BS and ignorant. The last time it happened was against HHH. He was over with crowd and was/is getting his name chanted the loudest every damn week as a face, it doesn't matter how much you deny it. Also Bryan biggest pops aren't from name chanting or from an entrance mostly the YES chants that gets the reaction. In bold how do you know that it's the reason, the real reason is because he thought being number #1 as a heel is better than #2 as a face, not because he was bad as a babyface, he prefers being a heel.

And I will remind you that it didn't happen. Bryan only outsold Punk because he left as the report said.
Punk's reactions weren't anywhere close to what Bryan is getting. That's just a fact. Show me one Punk reaction that was deafening other than MITB and I'll show you the countless historic Bryan reactions. Like I said, the last image of Punk in the WWE is people chanting for Bryan. That shows who is more popular. And Bryan is a fad but he's been the most over guy for two years now... Yeah, right. Punk wasn't a heel for long because he wasn't a good babyface. The WWE tried turning Bryan but the fans revolted. That would never happen for Punk. He has a cult following but doesn't connect to the masses like Bryan. Punk as a babyface just doesn't connect with people. His sarcastic, whiny, shoot promos don't work as a face. Good for a heel but not a face. That Bryan promo last night on backstage pass was more interesting, genuine and enjoyable than any babyface Punk promo since the Summer of Punk.

As for the people on FB, of course they're starting to turn on Bryan. That's the tradeoff when you start connecting to casuals. The most popular people always have a pocket of haters. Bryan's reactions and ratings the past few weeks showcase that he's the guy the fans are most into, not Orton, Batista, HHH, Taker, Lesnar, Hogan or Cena.
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Old 04-01-2014, 05:21 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Default Re: Which Full timer has threatened Cena's top face spot the most between 2006 and no

Bryan has been more consistently over at a high level than all the rest mentioned on that list, so its got to be Bryan in my book.
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Old 04-01-2014, 05:26 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Default Re: Which Full timer has threatened Cena's top face spot the most between 2006 and no

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Punk's reactions weren't anywhere close to what Bryan is getting. That's just a fact. Show me one Punk reaction that was deafening other than MITB and I'll show you the countless historic Bryan reactions. Like I said, the last image of Punk in the WWE is people chanting for Bryan. That shows who is more popular. And Bryan is a fad but he's been the most over guy for two years now... Yeah, right. Punk wasn't a heel for long because he wasn't a good babyface. The WWE tried turning Bryan but the fans revolted. That would never happen for Punk. He has a cult following but doesn't connect to the masses like Bryan. Punk as a babyface just doesn't connect with people. His sarcastic, whiny, shoot promos don't work as a face. Good for a heel but not a face. That Bryan promo last night on backstage pass was more interesting, genuine and enjoyable than any babyface Punk promo since the Summer of Punk.

As for the people on FB, of course they're starting to turn on Bryan. That's the tradeoff when you start connecting to casuals. The most popular people always have a pocket of haters. Bryan's reactions and ratings the past few weeks showcase that he's the guy the fans are most into, not Orton, Batista, HHH, Taker, Lesnar, Hogan or Cena.
Did I say Punk had bigger reactions, I said Punk gets the louder name chanting and with Bryan it's more of a YES chant like Ryback with "Feed me more". As a name chanting and even as an entrance pop Punk wins most of the time, even in a duel. Whatever you try to say, Bryan isn't more popular than Punk, if that's the case then Bryan is more popular than Cena because he gets a louder reaction. In terms of crowds he gets the loudest in terms of catchphrase reactions easily. But in terms of merch and being more Mainstream Punk wins, go check google trends, Bryan is not even close to Punk. People don't search for Bryan and don't care enough about him. By the way Punk gets loud reactions, and the ones you gonna show me are moments when Bryan is chanting YES not an entrance pop or name chanting. Punk loud pops is not just in Chicago but also in many cities, and even in countries like Mexico and Eng.

Ratings aren't any high anyway. And his numbers aren't that high that's why ratings aren't getting any higher.

Dude Punk/Paul/Lesnar as a face is better than anything Bryan did as a face and Punk/Jericho promos was better too. Plus Punk didn't get to be a face long enough.
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Old 04-01-2014, 05:38 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Default Re: Which Full timer has threatened Cena's top face spot the most between 2006 and no

Bryan's been doing well, but still has yet to prove that it's sustainable. He's definitely the most over wrestler in a long time...I'd even argue to say since Austin's ascent, specifically in terms of the crowd going bonkers...but we have yet to see if that translates to perking and more importantly sustaining interest. I personally think Bryan could be up to it, but there's some slight tweaking and refining that needs to go into his character. However, that evolution can come in time, doesn't have to be over night.

Punk could have been it, and I firmly believe that. The problem is they didn't go all in with him and for that, they missed a huge opportunity. There are three things that, if done differently, I think would have put Punk on Cena's level, and in a prime spot to potentially take over:

1. The Aftermath of MITB 2011: After Punk won the belt at MITB 2011, he needed to stay away for much longer. He was gone, what, a fucking week? Essentially holding the WWE hostage was the best thing they could have done to further solidify Punk's anti-authority persona and push his anti-hero traits to the max. No, you don't just go and create a new champion in that situation, you have Vince in a manic of what to do with THE title off TV. Not only would that have brought some much needed prestige to the WWE Title at the time, but it would have made the anticipation for Punk's return even bigger. Everything that was done with Punk showing up with the belt at Comic Con, or tweeting pictures of the title in his fridge should have been taken a step further and played out longer.

2. Punk remains champ: There should have never been cash in on Punk after he beat Cena. ESPECIALLY not by Alberto Del Rio. They didn't need to have the "undisputed title match" at Summerslam in the first place either. It easily could have just been Cena's rematch from MITB. Simply have Cena call him out, "you beat me at MITB, but I have a rematch clause and if you're man enough you'll come back and defend that title". Punk comes back to prove he's up to the challenge, as any good babyface would do and you have him go over Cena again at Summerslam. The Triple H issues that came post-SS should have never come to fruition, MAYBE you tease tension, but no match goes down...until far later.

3. Punk vs. Triple H at WM 28: You don't waste Punk/HHH at Night of Champions and you don't get Kevin fucking Nash involved in the whole situation either. Punk need to continue his hot streak after defeating Cena twice, defending the WWE Title, in the main events, of every PPV there after Summerslam, not constantly in the second to last match. You then rekindle the Punk/HHH beef on the Road to Wrestlemania in 2012 leading to them having their epic showdown on the big stage for the title. H would have needed to put Punk over obviously, which I don't know how realistic that would have been at that point...but it's the match that should have happened. The modern day Austin/Vince rebel against authority. It didn't have to close the show either...still could have had Rock/Cena last.
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Old 04-01-2014, 05:39 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Default Re: Which Full timer has threatened Cena's top face spot the most between 2006 and no

Anyone who tries to claim that X is/was a threat to Cena being Top Face, without also pointing out how said Face Main Evented WrestleMania instead of Cena(and I don't mean with), is just pissing into the wind.

Anybody can have a decent run with some heat. Its the Top Face that usually headlines the Showcase of the Immortals, because that's the guy they depend on to sell the most tickets.

The last 3 years its been:

John Cena
John Cena
John Cena

Note: Rock.. while being a Top Face.. was a tourist at this time and hardly a competition to Cena's crown. In fact, he was there to buff it.

And make no mistake, like the one dude said above, Bryan doing double duty and having two matches bigger than Cena's at WM(including the Main Event for the title) Is huge.

That alone should tell you he is not only as big a threat, but is probably surpassing him at this point... and has completely torched all other faces who were pretenders to the crown before him. John will still always have the Legacy Torch Status bestowed on him by The Rock, but the guy who stirs the drink will be Bryan for the foreseeable future, while Cena plays Gatekeeper to the top of the card and catches feuds with guys looking to get there.
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Old 04-01-2014, 05:45 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Default Re: Which Full timer has threatened Cena's top face spot the most between 2006 and no

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Did I say Punk had bigger reactions, I said Punk gets the louder name chanting and with Bryan it's more of a YES chant like Ryback with "Feed me more". As a name chanting and even as an entrance pop Punk wins most of the time, even in a duel. Whatever you try to say, Bryan isn't more popular than Punk, if that's the case then Bryan is more popular than Cena because he gets a louder reaction. In terms of crowds he gets the loudest in terms of catchphrase reactions easily. But in terms of merch and being more Mainstream Punk wins, go check google trends, Bryan is not even close to Punk. People don't search for Bryan and don't care enough about him. By the way Punk gets loud reactions, and the ones you gonna show me are moments when Bryan is chanting YES not an entrance pop or name chanting. Punk loud pops is not just in Chicago but also in many cities, and even in countries like Mexico and Eng.

Ratings aren't any high anyway. And his numbers aren't that high that's why ratings aren't getting any higher.

Dude Punk/Paul/Lesnar as a face is better than anything Bryan did as a face and Punk/Jericho promos was better too. Plus Punk didn't get to be a face long enough.


Yet Bryan and the people who cheer him forced WWE to give Bryan the chance to go over HHH and ORTON,Batista AT WRESTLEMANIA XXX.

Bryan's rise has been the biggest story this year,even your homeboy Punk acknowledged so..

Of course you'll comeback with a bunch of bullshit theories on why the fans have been cheering for Bryan,and try to pass them off as fact. As much as Punk complained that he was never in a Main Event at Mania, he never got it..yet Bryan has a big chance at Main Eventing Mania.. WHY?

Because the people were causing a huge fuss and WWE caved in...if anything the crowd doesn't care about CM Punk enough,outside of his annoying loyal,and bitter hardcore marks.
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:04 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Default Re: Which Full timer has threatened Cena's top face spot the most between 2006 and no

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Yet Bryan and the people who cheer him forced WWE to give Bryan the chance to go over HHH and ORTON,Batista AT WRESTLEMANIA XXX.

Bryan's rise has been the biggest story this year,even your homeboy Punk acknowledged so..

Of course you'll comeback with a bunch of bullshit theories on why the fans have been cheering for Bryan,and try to pass them off as fact. As much as Punk complained that he was never in a Main Event at Mania, he never got it..yet Bryan has a big chance at Main Eventing Mania.. WHY?

Because the people were causing a huge fuss and WWE caved in...if anything the crowd doesn't care about CM Punk enough,outside of his annoying loyal,and bitter hardcore marks.
Inside WWE they will care about him but outside they don't. Just like Google trends, not enough people care about him. Ratings isn't doing any higher because it isn't gonna get any higher. Bryan big test is after WM because he has a lot to prove or else they will de-push him.

I'm not gonna make an excuse and not necessarily a fact but it's reported. Punk was gonna face HHH and it only helped Bryan get that spot, who was gonna get Sheamus instead. I like how WWE is responding to Punk with "that was gonna be you" . Anyway Batista/Orton doesn't help. If it was something like Rock/Brock or even Punk/Orton for the WWE title people will not be as active as they are now. It's just that people know Batista/Orton gonna suck as they will rather see anyone take that spot from them or him Batista, I'm pretty sure if Punk won the Rumble people will not be as mad but they blew it, hell they even cheered Reigns just because they don't want Batista to win, I think people were just mad that Bryan wasn't even in the rumble. They do care about Punk more than him but it was/is Bryan year because he was being pushed ever since SS and been getting screwed, if anything the booking helped him get that spot. As I said again Punk leaving only helped Bryan get that spot.
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:08 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Default Re: Which Full timer has threatened Cena's top face spot the most between 2006 and no

I don't think anyone has been a SERIOUS threat. There's always been more of a scramble to be number 2 than it has to be number one. I will say this though. I do think Bryan has been placed higher on the depth chart than Cena recently, but I also think Cena's role has changed since his last injury. I think Cena's role is just that of an aging veteran/legend and if handled right we could see a unique run from him because no one has really stayed to play that role before.

Hogan left and he never really stayed during Bret's run. Bret was out during Michaels run and eventually just left. Shawn was injured when Steve took over. The Rock left for Hollywood. Brock left before he even really got the keys to the castle. So we've never really got to see a top guy after they've been moved after the number one slot.

That said, I don't think Bryan is really going to stay the top face that long. I think they'll ride this surge of momentum Bryan has as long as they can before they can crown Reigns. And I also don't think the fans will be as strong for Bryan after they get his real title run out of their system.

Now to comeback to the real topic. I don't think Cena's in his prime any more so I'm not really thinking Bryan has taken his spot, it's just time for Cena to step out of that role and this is the first Mania that Cena has really had a midcard match and no title is involved.

Punk was never a real threat. They never had any confidence in him being the guy without Cena on the show. Whenever Cena got injured while Punk has had a belt they've done there best to keep Cena on the show. Orton, I think was there first choice to be in the role Cena had, but Cena ended up being a better fit than Orton, and even when they moved Orton to Smackdown to be the top guy there they ended up just using a rotation of the ensemble of him, Christian, Big Show, Del Rio, Henry and Bryan. Sheamus was more of Smackdown's top guy than Orton was.

Hardy was over as hell, but they didn't even try to put him over as a top face. They rotated him into main events on Smackdown, but he was really just one of many stars. They gave him plenty of storylines near the top of Smackdown, but you could tell that anything they did with him they were going to do it quickly. Hardy had no long term planning to be a top guy. The plan was keep Hardy over as possible and us him to get any body over around him. Had they wanted to Hardy could've been in a top level match at Wrestlemania 25... I mean it's not like the triple threat they did was anything special. They could've gotten Hardy a world title match at the show. They just fucking knew better. So they tried to get Matt over. Then they put the belt back on Hardy just to get Punk over.

Now, I do think the slot is wide open. Cena's moving over a little bit and Bryan is a short term solution, but I think anyone could be the guy who takes Cena's slot. 18 months before the Rock main evented WM15 no one gave a shit. A year before Brock headlined WM19 he wasn't even on the roster. So, I do think in the next two years we're going to see someone surge to that spot. I think Bryan has eyes on it, but I don't think he's going to truly take a seat there. Eddie and Benoit were in major spots at WM20, but WM21 Eddie was in the opening match and Benoit was in the MITB match and WM22 and 23 he was in midcard title matches. So, it's not out of the realm of possibility that Bryan could only be an upper midcarder or a supporting main eventer after this. I just don't see him staying the top face any longer than Summerslam.
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:23 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Default Re: Which Full timer has threatened Cena's top face spot the most between 2006 and no

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Bryan's been doing well, but still has yet to prove that it's sustainable. He's definitely the most over wrestler in a long time...I'd even argue to say since Austin's ascent, specifically in terms of the crowd going bonkers...but we have yet to see if that translates to perking and more importantly sustaining interest. I personally think Bryan could be up to it, but there's some slight tweaking and refining that needs to go into his character. However, that evolution can come in time, doesn't have to be over night.

Punk could have been it, and I firmly believe that. The problem is they didn't go all in with him and for that, they missed a huge opportunity. There are three things that, if done differently, I think would have put Punk on Cena's level, and in a prime spot to potentially take over:

1. The Aftermath of MITB 2011: After Punk won the belt at MITB 2011, he needed to stay away for much longer. He was gone, what, a fucking week? Essentially holding the WWE hostage was the best thing they could have done to further solidify Punk's anti-authority persona and push his anti-hero traits to the max. No, you don't just go and create a new champion in that situation, you have Vince in a manic of what to do with THE title off TV. Not only would that have brought some much needed prestige to the WWE Title at the time, but it would have made the anticipation for Punk's return even bigger. Everything that was done with Punk showing up with the belt at Comic Con, or tweeting pictures of the title in his fridge should have been taken a step further and played out longer.

2. Punk remains champ: There should have never been cash in on Punk after he beat Cena. ESPECIALLY not by Alberto Del Rio. They didn't need to have the "undisputed title match" at Summerslam in the first place either. It easily could have just been Cena's rematch from MITB. Simply have Cena call him out, "you beat me at MITB, but I have a rematch clause and if you're man enough you'll come back and defend that title". Punk comes back to prove he's up to the challenge, as any good babyface would do and you have him go over Cena again at Summerslam. The Triple H issues that came post-SS should have never come to fruition, MAYBE you tease tension, but no match goes down...until far later.

3. Punk vs. Triple H at WM 28: You don't waste Punk/HHH at Night of Champions and you don't get Kevin fucking Nash involved in the whole situation either. Punk need to continue his hot streak after defeating Cena twice, defending the WWE Title, in the main events, of every PPV there after Summerslam, not constantly in the second to last match. You then rekindle the Punk/HHH beef on the Road to Wrestlemania in 2012 leading to them having their epic showdown on the big stage for the title. H would have needed to put Punk over obviously, which I don't know how realistic that would have been at that point...but it's the match that should have happened. The modern day Austin/Vince rebel against authority. It didn't have to close the show either...still could have had Rock/Cena last
.
Agreed 110% percent. Absolutely spot on.

Daniel Bryan might also very well be the most over person in terms of pure crowd reaction since Rock's 99 or Austin's 98, but like you said the sustainability has yet to be seen.
But what you said about PUnk in 2011 completely sums up why the WWE completely and utterly miscalculated on a star that had immense buzz and they could have completely blown the doors off, but I truly think those miscues you mentioned halted Punk's momentum JUST enough to where he overall did not recover - still 2nd to Cena and extremely over, but Punk during that period was truly in a position to equal and even overtake Cena like Orton in 2010 or the Rock to Austin in 99. For punk it worked out with the reign as a face than heel, but WWE really could have had a 1, 1A situation like the Attitude Era during that period. While Punk will be remember in legendary terms, I doubt people will be saying the Punk and Cena era, like people say The Rock and Austin era, and THAT's what the WWE missed out on during that time period I put in bold.
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:31 PM   #80 (permalink)
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