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MasterChan · 05-16-2008, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrownieDude

MVP has decent psychology but he is nothing amazing. ...

yeah, he's only half amazing

scottysullivan · 05-16-2008, 07:58 AM

"You're takin' up my interview time KOFI!" - Shelton Benjamin.

or as Mike Adamle would say Sheldon Benjamin.

ivesaidway2much · 05-16-2008, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsuyori Murakami

Taunting is an almost unchanging constant with most heels. His wrestling itself; what he does and why he does it, that's what makes him good. He works within the bounds of WWE's shitty psychology, but he makes the most of it by not only doing that in such a way that he successfully draws heat where and when he needs to, but that his wrestling is also makes sense and generally doesn't have any gaping holes in logic. Generally when I watch MVP matches I don't find myself asking "what was the point of that" or "why didn't he just do such and such?"

So then what is the point behind MVP bouncing off the ropes, doing a little dance as he moves closer to his fallen opponent, faking a jumpshot, shouting "Ballin'", and then dropping an elbow?

RetepAdam. · 05-16-2008, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsuyori Murakami

This is something Raven knows sweet fuck all about; I've never seen a single Raven match which was realistic or logical. If you subscribe to everything Raven has to say because you were born with rocks in your head, then things like Kobashi vs Hansen matches and Robinson vs Inoki matches are very terrible because they don't follow this type of "psychology" so strictly, they require you to become invested in the match by observing the actions of the wrestlers and thinking about WHY they're doing what they're doing because it's pro wrestling presented as an actual sport. Of course, that's bullshit, because those matches are excellent and Raven is a fucking toolshed.

As seems to be usual with your posts, I was with you til right about here.

Working almost strictly in the US and in promotions that employ this kind of booking and match outline, Raven is not off on emphasizing that kind of psychology. Obviously, some promotions (and wrestlers) do very well utilizing a different type, but in the North American big leagues, that's simply how it's been.

On a more personal note (and at the expense of sounding like a total mark), I wouldn't call Raven a fucking toolshed, considering how long he's been in the business, how respected his opinion seems to be, and that he's in MENSA (just to point out that he's not The Ultimate Warrior talking about the psychological aspects of a match).

Katsuyori Murakami · 05-16-2008, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivesaidway2much

So then what is the point behind MVP bouncing off the ropes, doing a little dance as he moves closer to his fallen opponent, faking a jumpshot, shouting "Ballin'", and then dropping an elbow?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsuyori Murakami

Taunting is an almost unchanging constant with most heels.

You can't escape the fact that it's still WWE dude. MVP is still a cocky heel whose character is to taunt people and rub in his "success."

Quote:

Originally Posted by RetepAdam.

Working almost strictly in the US and in promotions that employ this kind of booking and match outline, Raven is not off on emphasizing that kind of psychology. Obviously, some promotions (and wrestlers) do very well utilizing a different type, but in the North American big leagues, that's simply how it's been.

Yeah, I mean I agree with you to some extent, he's just doing the bare basics of what is expected of him, so you can't really fault him for doing what he does too much, as a worker, but just because that's what he's accustomed to and knows a lot about it doesn't make him right under every circumstance or on every topic. He knows a lot about what he knows, and he's more than qualified to talk about that, things like getting heat and etc. But he evidently doesn't know anything about great pro wrestling. When was Raven's last "five star match"? I can't even remember the last match he had which I'd even consider "good." Like, ten years ago maybe? And it was a complete fluke? He's one of those "fifty illegal closed fist punches per match which never knock the opponent out or leave a mark or get him DQ'd" types, or "three minute rear naked chokes which don't choke out the opponent" types. Like Randy Orton and etc. They're good at what they do, but what they do is inherently shit. So he's qualified to be considered an authority on the psychology of his inherently shit wrestling style, but he's not qualified to be taken seriously when it comes to anything else. Especially because he's close minded and he thinks that if everyone doesn't work like him then they suck.

(Sidenote: your avatar is awesome.)

**R Fan** · 05-16-2008, 11:08 AM

I got a headache reading this argument. Benjamin for the win next week.

**BrownieDude** · 05-16-2008, 08:55 PM

Just to make a note: Itw WWE. World Wrestling ENTERTAINMENT. If everyone single wrestler had this amazing pro wrestling psychology you speak of I guarantee people would care a lot less about it. Being a great pro wrestler isn't just about your psychology. Its about how well you entertain and draw.

People aren't inherently shit. Guys like Orton incorporate a lot of rest-holds into their movesets and will never be acclaimed for their workrate but he has but on numerous entertaining matches.

Benji is winning this week in my opinion, although I get the feeling he will end up jobbing to Matt for the US title.

kennedy=god · 05-17-2008, 07:57 AM

Quote:

[I bet if Shelton wasn't a high-flyer and was pushed purely as a technical wrestler then the guys who criticise him would be singing his praises.

I can't speak for everybody else, but i know that wouldn't be the case with me. Having athletic ability is definitly a good thing to have, but Benjamin just abuses it. I just think he needs to learn when & where to use his incredible athleticism, and in all fairness, he's had a while to learn how to use it. I promise that i would never criticise a wrestler just because he has athletic ability. I've actually said countless times that The Dynamite Kid is the greatest pure wrestler of all-time, and he had about as much/more athletic ability then Benjamin.

Like Puro Mark (That's his name FOREVER because he likes puro wrestling

) sort of implied, he should just spend a few months in NOAH or somewhere and just learn some stuff about the realism affect of proffesional wrestling

Nate Essex · 05-17-2008, 08:14 AM

LOL@abusing his athletic ability. That's one of the most insane things ever posted on any forum anywhere. Because a guy has the ability to do whatever he wants in the ring on any given night..he sucks? HAHAHAHA! I guess it's better to wrestle Superman matches of the HHH/Michaels/John Cena variety. Gotcha.

CGS54 · 06-01-2008, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukeste

just posting to say what the wwe are doing with these too could be very interesting would be great to see and extreme rules match or ladder or something to show off the talent that both these guys have

what are your thoughts guys ?

I think Kofi and Shelton should have a best of 3 Series of matches. 1.Single 2.Ladder 3.Extreme Rules with the Winner gettin a shot at ECW Gold.