Hope is lost, faith is broken...The Dark Knight Rises - July 20th, 2012 - Page 59 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 07-23-2012, 05:09 AM   #581 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hope is lost, faith is broken...The Dark Knight Rises - July 20th, 2012 (SPOILERS

^Agree, this is without a doubt my Favorite superhero trilogy.
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Old 07-23-2012, 05:15 AM   #582 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hope is lost, faith is broken...The Dark Knight Rises - July 20th, 2012 (SPOILERS

Just saw the movie for the second time in the theatre, and obviously it's still awesome.
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Old 07-23-2012, 06:00 AM   #583 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hope is lost, faith is broken...The Dark Knight Rises - July 20th, 2012 (SPOILERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hohenheim of Light View Post

Why did Batman leave Gotham? What what what.
Yeah as mentioned by eddiefan I took that as the completion of the message about Batman as the symbol that Gotham needs rather than Bruce Wayne as Batman being the symbol the city needs. I don't exactly possess a diverse knowledge of a lot of the comics and stories surrounding Batman, but I've seen Seph and Redeadening talk a lot about how Batman is essentially insane with his conviction to fight and punish the criminals because of the deaths of his parents, and thought this film did a good job in tackling his unrivalled devotion to serving as Batman in spite of the pain and suffering it was causing his life, and making you question whether Bruce could ever move on and grow out of his obsession with Batman, or whether it would take death to seperate him from the Batman persona.

To me the conversation with Alfred was all about Bruce thinking he and he alone could only represent what Batman stood for: in-corruptable, someone who is not afraid of death and who is obviously skilled enough to fight and terrorise the criminals. Bruce cannot let go of the Batman identity and is so convinced that only he can represent what Batman stands for that Alfred knows he will not hesitate to die in battle, and then the story of the movie slowly evolves into Bruce maybe accepting that Batman can live on forever as a symbol, whilst Bruce Wayne can 'rise' or evolve and lead a new life.

That to me is what I took as the message from the film. Blake proved to Bruce that he was a man who grew up in troubled times and who had retained a strong sense of moral justice throughout his life, and scenes like Blake losing respect for Gordon breaking the code of officers...only to realise near the end of the film that maybe doing things by the book cannot always guarantee what he perceives to be 'the right result' and therefore slowly comes around to the idea that maybe as a Police Officer he's restrained by too many beuracratic procedures to serve as the protector of Gotham. Bruce slowly realised that Batman and his presence, moral code and skill is what the City needs and that he was not the only person dedicated enough to serve as Gotham's protector and that he too deserved a happy ending by safely knowing there was always someone willing and able to act as Batman and keep the city safe.

Agree with you btw about the emotional scenes with Alfred, I could see a few people in my cinema just in awe of that speech in front of the graves. I do agree that in many respects the hints and Alfred's reaction were enough to tell the viewer Bruce was alive without seeing him, but maybe Nolan wanted clarity at the end of his trilogy rather than leaving the viewer in suspense. Seeing Bruce with Selina and actually enjoying life rather than the paranoid/devoted protector he had been since Batman Begins re-affirmed to the viewer that his time as Batman was done, and that indeed that legend had indeed ended.


As for my thoughts on the film, despite some things in the middle I think could have been better (agree with whoever said that the whole Gotham struggle could have been shown better, it was essentially just fast-forwarded to Batman's return, rather than seeing the actual plight of the city aside from the first few moments of rioting and chaos that Bruce had to see) I actually probably thought this was the collectively strongest film in the trilogy, or at least closer to Begins. DK is a great film but aside from Joker's chaos and the slow burning progression of Harvey Dent I don't find much else in the film to be too great, here I thought all the cast were sublime and the likes of Bale, Caine, Oldman and Freeman who were regulars turned in arguably their best performances, and between Hardy, Hathaway and Levitt I thought the supporting cast were collectively stronger in their performances even if Ledger's individual performance likely remains the best in the trilogy. I loved the messages and symbols the film tackled: the message about Gotham being a city not worth saving that was present in Begins and DK was again explored with the citizens acting exactly how Bane believed them to do, Levitt's ideals of moral justice slowly becoming incompatible with the procedures and orders he'd have to follow under a Police Badge were excellent in exentuating his dis-satisfaction with the job and making the ending seem a logical conclusion, Alfred's desperation in trying to convince Bruce he had become too involved with the Batman persona to the point where he would never be happy in his life was a smart and hearbreaking look at the character and his constant source of misery and despite the whole saga of Bruce recovering in the prison (I do think they should have focused more on his physical battle as well as more shots of him being subjected to images of Gotham's decay) being a little iffy to believe as well as some of his antics involving the lighting of the Bat signal I thought as a sum of its parts this was probably the most complete in the series, in terms of story, acting and characters.

The Talia reveal was a nice surprise given I'd forgotten about her playing Talia, but it was clear it was a twist for the sake of a twist at the end. I mean logically speaking when Bane breaks Batman and takes control of Gotham there's little stopping Talia from revealing herself, rather than staying captive. I suppose you could argue it was a contingency plan should Batman return and be so focused on stopping Bane he'd be blind to suspect Talia's deception, but I do think as good as that explanation could be it was little more than a surprise twist for the sake of a surprise twist. Bane's death was well done to me, he went out like a badass having been given a death that no-one could survive, and one that caught him completely off guard rather than a swift and decisive killing by Batman. And it further explored the Catwoman/Batman dynamic with her not possessing Batman's moral stance on not killing.

As for Bane's backstory being killed, going off of my limited knowledge of his entire character, I'll go out on a limb (feel free Sep, WCW or Redead to correct me) but Bane has always been portrayed as a mercenary, albeit an intellectual and skilled one, but a mercenary none the less. I never got the Batman and Robin vibe that Bane was inept and clueless just because Talia was revealed to be the one trying to emulate her father's plan for Gotham, rather I just took it as Bane despite being a monster at one point caring for another individual and therefore vowing to work with and protect Talia, but also that the beating he took at the hands of the inmates further accelerated his psychopathic tendancies. He still remained a feared and badass terror, but grew in depth as it was hinted that like Batman he may well have been born into this persona without any choice and that there was a more complex individual behind the mask rather than a brutal lackey. In many ways I thought of it to be akin to Darth Vader, you slowly grew to learn more about the monster and by the end you realise there was a dark past to his story, just not the one that was hinted at earlier in the film with his escaping out of hell story.

I think as a whole, each film has things you can nit-pick as being hard to believe or lacking, so in many ways I don't think any one film can be conclusively better. But as a complete story involving a range of characters who are capable of being emotionally invested in, a generally sound and well explored story playing off of Begins and focusing on Batman's moral code to continually protect the city in spite of everyone trying to convince him they aren't worth saving and the brilliant acting by the cast I'd say this is my favourite of the three. Nolan's style to me means there are flaws in each film that critics of his work could point to, and the middle stretch and Talia twist would definitely be candidates here, but overall I enjoyed it the most of the three and thought the themes in the movie were well explored, and give Nolan credit for managing to make such a diverse cast all feel integral to the movie in some way, rather than giving unnecessary attention to one or two characters and detracting from the rest.

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Old 07-23-2012, 06:48 AM   #584 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hope is lost, faith is broken...The Dark Knight Rises - July 20th, 2012 (SPOILERS

saw this last night

felt it was more enjoyable than tdk
- the cast overall seemed to stronger in terms of acting

I loved ledger's acting but I think I liked bane/talia duo somehwat better? they had a motivation other than 'watching the world burn' and for me that makes a better story for a villain. idk, it just feels better when it's something personal like that I guess.

there were some flaws definitely but it was really fucking fun and I loved it overall.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:32 AM   #585 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hope is lost, faith is broken...The Dark Knight Rises - July 20th, 2012 (SPOILERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin Klein View Post
Don't forget this one!

YES! Like I stated pretty much everything he did and said in this film was great and his performance truly captured malevolence.

A couple other favorite lines from him are "The Fire Rises" and "When Gotham is ashes ... then you have my permission to die."

Also, when that secret team came in and Bane had his knee on the officer's throat, the officer said "I'll die before I talk" and Bane said, "I'm on your schedule, captain" before choking him to death. Just vicious!
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:47 AM   #586 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hope is lost, faith is broken...The Dark Knight Rises - July 20th, 2012 (SPOILERS

Personally the Bane/Talia twist felt more like a book plot twist than a movie plot twist if that makes sense. Like when i'm reading a book i have an image in my head of what the characters are like and such, and if that twist was there i'd still think of Bane's backstory and being a complete psychopath. However seeing it, that made Bane to be far more human and less of a detatched killer.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:03 AM   #587 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hope is lost, faith is broken...The Dark Knight Rises - July 20th, 2012 (SPOILERS

I can agree with that, but to me seeing a new side of Bane didn't hurt him. If anything it made him felt more complex and mysterious, although finding out so much more about him moments before his death probably takes away from any story they could have milked out of his beating and its effects on his mental frame, so in that respect I can see the flaw in opening this whole new side of him only to have him exit shortly afterwards.

I don't agree that it completely killed the character or rendered him a mere lackey though, I never got that impression from the Bane character here and could completely buy him as a follower of Talia through personal devotion of his own valition rather than being a roided goof with little to no intelligence (Batman & Robin).

I don't agree it was a necessary twist (though the daughter of Ras aiming to aiming to avenge his death and in the process complete his vision was a nice callback to Begins), but I'm not nerely as critical as others in how much I think it took away from the film. Her death was pretty hilarious though, just the way she insantly went from conversation to death made me chuckle.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:29 AM   #588 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hope is lost, faith is broken...The Dark Knight Rises - July 20th, 2012 (SPOILERS

I like Bane's death because the way it was set-up & executed was good storytelling imo - Talia gave Bane the advantage over Batman, Catwoman gave Batman the advantage over Bane (permanently). It was also Catwoman's opportunity to return and show the good Bruce saw in her and trusted she'd show while also showing that Catwoman still doesn't quite keep the moral code of Batman by using the gun and killing. Plus, Bane wanted Gotham to be blown to hell and he ultimately suffered that fate.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:47 AM   #589 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hope is lost, faith is broken...The Dark Knight Rises - July 20th, 2012 (SPOILERS

Ah, desperately need to see it again.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:26 AM   #590 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hope is lost, faith is broken...The Dark Knight Rises - July 20th, 2012 (SPOILERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Segunda Caida View Post
I can agree with that, but to me seeing a new side of Bane didn't hurt him.
Agreed, I thought it was quite touching in a weird sort of way? The way Bane protected her and was clearly very devoted to her.

I really liked Bane as a villain, actually. I thought his motivations (when revealed) made sense.
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