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post #41 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-07-2014, 09:28 AM
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Cheers Andre

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post #42 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-07-2014, 12:42 PM
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post #43 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-07-2014, 03:19 PM
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I thought the negative fitted in with the point I was conveying. But looking back, I guess I see the point of arguing that it will or will not work rather than looking at a future tense with the current situation being reflected upon, being a waste of words. Since I am not giving the reader the opportunity to know that is what I am putting forth. Regardless though, definitely appreciate the feedback. I do wish I could take something from "axing your weaker arguements". In future, I can't exactly tell how they are weak unless they are addressed, which would only happen in results.

I enjoyed writing this debate more than most of the sports ones. A few I enjoyed but most felt like a chore as I don't spend as much of my time following football than I do watching wrestling and observing alternative opinions. Time is my biggest nemesis in writing these and something I have lacked since the tag debate, which I'd probably put forth as my strongest in a while. Will have time this weekend to take advantage of and I like the topic of my next debate so fingers crossed.
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post #44 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-07-2014, 04:11 PM
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Weaker arguments would be any that don't really fit in with the question, aka the Cesaro/Heyman one. I guess you just need to implement a tad more quality control when coming up with arguments, because that one slipped through the net when it really stuck out as being something that has no relevancy to the debate. When coming up with your ideas in future just have a good think about exactly what the debate is about, because in all honesty that paragraph seemed like a good answer to 'Were WWE right to stick Cesaro with Paul Heyman?' Think of any potential counter arguments when creating your ideas and then list how many go against each argument, especially strong ones where any match/angle/booking situation can be used as a variable. When those types of counters occur it's just best to scrap the argument.

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post #45 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-07-2014, 05:53 PM
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Thanks Andre
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post #46 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-07-2014, 07:33 PM
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I think I said it in the chatbox but yeah, cheers for your feedback both times Andre.


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post #47 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-07-2014, 08:51 PM
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Yep, Thanks Andre for the feedback.
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post #48 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-07-2014, 11:26 PM
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Good stuff Andre. Props.
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post #49 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-08-2014, 08:34 AM
What we've got here is failure to communicate
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Sorry for being so late with this. A lot of life shit got in the way recently. I actually had something typed up a week ago but it was shit and I was embarrassed to post it because I knew I could do so much better. Tonight, I actually had the time to put into it and I think I have a pretty good debate to submit. I'm a social debater but I decided to take the NBA topic to help broaden my horizons.

Should Refs start giving more leeway... ?

I cannot be any more clear on this point: under no circumstances whatsoever should a ref in the NBA or in any sport be allowing any leeway.

Leeway - freedom to do something the way you want to do it; an allowable margin of freedom or variation [1]

The referee's job is to officiate the game. The rules are there for a reason. It should never be the referee's choice to decide how he wants to officiate a game. The referees should be doing nothing more than enforcing the rules as they are written. Any leeway of any kind is not a good thing for any sport.

This is an especially important point in the NBA. This is a league that has been striving for legitimacy for a long time now. The NBA being rigged is a long standing suspicion. Allowing more leeway is not going to solve that problem.

NBA Conspiracy Theories:

Let's start with the 1985 draft and the frozen envelope. Many people, to this day, believe that the Knicks were rigged to win the draft, so they could get Patrick Ewing. The New York Knickerbockers being a good team is what's best for business. More recent suspicions of the draft being rigged are the Cavs getting the first pick after LeBron left and the Hornets getting the first pick when they were being sold by the league.

In game 6 of the 2002 WCF, The Lakers were awarded 27 Free Throws in the 4th Quarter against the Kings.

Tim Donaghy.

Whether or not any of this is true is debatable but as often is the case in life, the perception is the reality.

There is a fascinating article here [2] where you can read more. Here is a good quote from it:

It's not just the ambiguity of calling a block or charge; it's the understanding that so many actions could conceivably be fouls at different times ... in different games ... for different players ... to different refs. "We as players learn how to play the game according to the way different officials call it. That's the way it's always been."

In reality, the refs already give leeway on their calls. The “superstars” are already getting reffed differently than the every day player. Superstar treatment in the NBA is a plague. No player in any kind of legitimate league should ever go into a game wonder what the rules are going to be. If you really want legitimacy in your league, then the officiating needs to be standardized. Every ref crew should be reffing every game and every player with the exact same standards.

Just a futher note on “superstar calls”: if you're the so-called best players in the league, why exactly is it that you need helpful calls from the refs to win games? That just reeks of conspiracy.

If you want to take a step in the right direction of ending the conspiracy theories in the NBA, the first step is eliminating leeway of any kind from the refs.

...to allow more physicality in today's NBA

This is an entirely different problem.

Yes. Absolutely. Yes, there should absolutely be more physicality in the NBA. We're in the era of touch fouls and flopping as an offensive strategy. When I see guys like James Harden drive to the basket, not with the intention of making a basket, but with the intention of getting fouled so he can go to the free throw line... it flat out disgusts me. That is not how the game is supposed to be played. Foul calls are there to keep the game fair; not to be used as a strategy.

Watching the Bad Boy Pistons on the recent 30 for 30 [3] served as a reminder as to how much of a pussy league the NBA has become.

Yes, there should be more physicality in the league. Yet, you can't just go and tell the refs to allow more leeway. That leads into the conspiracy problem. Not all ref crews are going to be allowing the same amount of leeway as other crews. That's a problem that already exists. Allowing more leeway will only exacerbate an already existing problem.

If you want to solve the problem of the NBA turning into too much of a touch foul league, then you have to change the actual rules. If you allow refs to decide on their own what the leeway is, then the issue of legitimacy and game rigging will never go away. Stop the superstar calls. Make the ref be forced to call a foul because a player gave him no choice in the matter.

Legitimacy? Solved. Physicality? Solved. Game? Legit.

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post #50 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-11-2014, 06:07 AM
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I know I went over this with you Andre, but seeing as the only other Dojo debate (which match should main event Extreme Rules?) is silly to do as it has already happened, shall I take a wrestling debate from the new TDL main card that I am not in and submit a 600-800 word debate here?


Spoiler for Thoughts on People who try to overthrow my wrestlingforum.com wrestling fantasy games de-facto rulership:
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