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post #21 of 117 (permalink) Old 01-19-2014, 12:20 PM
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Re: TDL XI: MANY A PRINCE, BUT ONLY ONE A KING - THE RESULTS

Just read Andre's comments on the undercard debates, fuckern warz~!

And DDMac/Andre , defo MOTN.

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Funny how Zombo did nothing but bury himself all throughout and yet came out with the win.
Told ya, the guy's a fucking wolf in a sheep's clothing

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post #22 of 117 (permalink) Old 01-19-2014, 12:40 PM
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Re: TDL XI: MANY A PRINCE, BUT ONLY ONE A KING - THE RESULTS

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Originally Posted by DDMac View Post
It's a greater indicator than influencing guys like Luger and Sid, but it's not about influencing a couple of guys. It's about changing an ideal. It's about establishing a mindset. Hogan's influence over Austin (which I'm still not entirely convinced of) changed things for a couple of years. His WWF formula changed EVERYTHING... and IT'S STILL AROUND. Austin's not. His influence is not. WCW IS NOT. Hogan's influence over the biggest professional wrestling company of the last few DECADES is of the highest quality of influence, His influence over the 'E is of superior quality to every other superstar in history.
That's fine, but I also covered the fact that Hogan built the WWE in great detail, so that was there. Without him there would have been no Mania and possibly no WWE extending into the 90s. It's all there. The point is that I flipped the question on its head to say, "you know what, Austin had a monster impact as well, but Hogan was responsible for that as well as being the original building blocks of the WWF". I appreciate what you did with your debate, but I just felt that I deserved some more credit for how I argued that Hogan created two environments (being the reason that the WWF still existed for Austin to work in and creating the environment that helped Austin thrive in the 90's) that lead to the long term success of the WWE, as well as assisting Austin's rising star.

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Grand scheme of things, much like Austin, WCW didn't change anything. It was cool while it lasted, and then everything returned to the status quo.
They both changed a hell of a lot. WCW was putting WWF out of business, while Austin saved the WWF. To suggest that neither changed anything is ridiculous. Take WCW away and it's likely that the WWF would have continued to stagnate while the wrasslin' industry in North America wouldn't have received the very firm kick up the arse that it required at that time in order to save itself. Take Austin out of the equation and the WWF most likely goes out of business with WCW continuing to kick its arse. Then the time warner merger occurs and what are we left with? Of course WCW and Austin mattered in the grand scheme of things...

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McMahon and his company are pro wrestling in North America. If we want to talk Japan, I guess that's fine, but as far as WCW and anything else that pales in comparison to professional wrestling for the last twenty some odd years when compared to the 'E, It's a blip... an anomaly.

Nice memories. I love them all, but what's it mean in the long term?? Not long term as in a couple of years - long term for decades?? I'm just saying.
As already stated in the previous part...

It has to be acknowledged in a debate about pro graps considering that WCW played a huge part. It played a huge part in the development of pro graps in North America, including its long term survival.

Again, this isn't about taking anything away from you, just felt that I wasn't given enough credit and that the main concept of my debate was overlooked a bit.




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post #23 of 117 (permalink) Old 01-19-2014, 12:41 PM
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Re: TDL XI: MANY A PRINCE, BUT ONLY ONE A KING - THE RESULTS

Holy shit @ Mac vs. Andre! The post-debate debate is fun too. Almost inspires me to duke it out in pro graps topics one day. Almost. Good top of the card I have to give credit to as well.


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post #24 of 117 (permalink) Old 01-19-2014, 12:41 PM
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Re: TDL XI: MANY A PRINCE, BUT ONLY ONE A KING - THE RESULTS

lol @ my worst debate being my first when in this league.

Regardless.

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post #25 of 117 (permalink) Old 01-19-2014, 12:41 PM
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Re: TDL XI: MANY A PRINCE, BUT ONLY ONE A KING - THE RESULTS

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Originally Posted by STEVIE SWAG View Post
[B]Just read Andre's comments on the undercard debates, fuckern warz~!

And DDMac/Andre , defo MOTN.
I'd like to see a rematch between these two titans

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post #26 of 117 (permalink) Old 01-19-2014, 12:43 PM
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Re: TDL XI: MANY A PRINCE, BUT ONLY ONE A KING - THE RESULTS

Ahhh, fuck. Felt that one coming tbh. Congrats to STEVIE SWAG and TURNCOAT :


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post #27 of 117 (permalink) Old 01-19-2014, 12:56 PM
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Re: TDL XI: MANY A PRINCE, BUT ONLY ONE A KING - THE RESULTS

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Originally Posted by THE DARK ANDRE View Post
That's fine, but I also covered the fact that Hogan built the WWE in great detail, so that was there. Without him there would have been no Mania and possibly no WWE extending into the 90s. It's all there. The point is that I flipped the question on its head to say, "you know what, Austin had a monster impact as well, but Hogan was responsible for that as well as being the original building blocks of the WWF". I appreciate what you did with your debate, but I just felt that I deserved some more credit for how I argued that Hogan created two environments (being the reason that the WWF still existed for Austin to work in and creating the environment that helped Austin thrive in the 90's) that lead to the long term success of the WWE, as well as assisting Austin's rising star.
fair enough

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They both changed a hell of a lot. WCW was putting WWF out of business, while Austin saved the WWF. To suggest that neither changed anything is ridiculous. Take WCW away and it's likely that the WWF would have continued to stagnate while the wrasslin' industry in North America wouldn't have received the very firm kick up the arse that it required at that time in order to save itself. Take Austin out of the equation and the WWF most likely goes out of business with WCW continuing to kick its arse. Then the time warner merger occurs and what are we left with? Of course WCW and Austin mattered in the grand scheme of things...
That's EXACTLY why it DOESN'T matter. WCW started a fire, and Austin put it out before anything was burned permanently. The E is still on top AND they're stagnating, just like before 94, just like before Austin, just like before WCW.

I think we pretty much agree on everything else.

good bit of fun

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post #28 of 117 (permalink) Old 01-19-2014, 01:07 PM
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Re: TDL XI: MANY A PRINCE, BUT ONLY ONE A KING - THE RESULTS

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDMac View Post
fair enough



That's EXACTLY why it DOESN'T matter. WCW started a fire, and Austin put it out before anything was burned permanently. The E is still on top AND they're stagnating, just like before 94, just like before Austin, just like before WCW.

I think we pretty much agree on everything else.

good bit of fun
So how can you say that WCW and Austin don't matter? Take one of them out of the equation then the scenario is completely different. Take BOTH out of the scenario and the WWF might have gone out of business considering how badly they were doing from 94-96 before the nWo revolution. Without WCW the WWF certainly wouldn't have received the push it needed to become a huge drawing company throughout the AE (as if Vince would have created the AE without WCW pressurising him) during the last wrestling boom, which in turn allowed them to float on the stock exchange and become a private company, which in turn has lead them to where they are today creating their own network. WCW mattered.

Yeah, I think we see eye to eye on everything else



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post #29 of 117 (permalink) Old 01-19-2014, 01:28 PM
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Re: TDL XI: MANY A PRINCE, BUT ONLY ONE A KING - THE RESULTS




Nice debates Rush/Noto.


Also @ TLK, I never got into Hibbert's offensive numbers because he's awful on the offensive end and I would have just ruined my own point. It's why I only really focused on defensive and only mentioned offense in relation to how Hibbert did against the Heat(when he actually did play well) and Dwight's free throws(as that's the only real thing he's totally awful at on the offensive end).

And tbf, I was arguing why an inferior center was better. I don't actually think Hibbert is better than Dwight, I just wanted to argue it.

They called him the Lion of Lannister to his face...

...and whispered "Kingslayer" behind his back



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post #30 of 117 (permalink) Old 01-19-2014, 01:34 PM
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Re: TDL XI: MANY A PRINCE, BUT ONLY ONE A KING - THE RESULTS

Nah it was just me nitpicking. Your debate was really good.





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