TDL X: STACKED - THE RESULTS - Page 5 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:52 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Default Re: TDL X: STACKED - THE RESULTS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
Your intro is fine and entertaining enough, while your point regarding the misguided concept of over saturation within WWE’s tv product is spot on.

Okay, so I have one huge problem with this debate, one that concerns the cherry picking of statistics for comparison from the attitude era to the modern era, using random quarters with laughable “hypothetical” (how is that in any way supposed to be convincing in a debate? Hypothetically I could assume that WWE made a shit tonne of cash in those other quarters. Use actual stats please) mathematics that don’t take into account the changes between quarters, especially in regards to Wrestlemania season. None the less, these stats were used to paint a picture that WWE is now more profitable than ever in terms of revenue, especially in 2012 compared to 2002, but this simply isn’t true:

http://corporate.wwe.com/news/2002/2002_06_26.jsp

2002: $425 million total revenue = $542 million based on US inflation rates from 2002 to 2012

corporate.wwe.com/documents/4Q12PressReleaseFinal_000.pdf‎ (adobe reader download)

2012: $484 million total revenue

It’s like me saying that in 2013 Wagg is selling %100 more choc ices from his ice cream van to little kids than he was in 2002, but does that take into account the fact that Wagg was selling more lollipops back then, thus making a larger comparable revenue?

Now you could possibly save that stance by adding in total net profit comparisons, but you didn’t even go there, while you could have also saved your argument by explaining how a HUGE tv deal makes WWE more stable as a business in this modern era and in the long term through a guaranteed income in comparison to the booming attitude era’s largest revenue gaining tools, but you didn’t do that either. That whole section comparing the tv deals was a complete waste of time for me, but you might have convinced far more naïve judges and I suppose that has to be commended because the ability to spin statistical data is a good skill, whether that was intended in this case or not…

Again, you continued with the spin by showing how WWE made “a 1311.11% increase in revenue” through international expansion from 2000 and 2009, but this time you get away with it because in 2009 (not that it’s actually NOW, but I’ll let that slide as it’s a reasonable comparison) WWE did slightly better in terms of overall revenue in comparison to 2000, although again I would have liked to have seen you work that into your argument. Okay, now here is where you started to catch fire. The three paragraphs revolving around Michelle Wilson and how WWE have capitalised on modern media outlets were excellent, the highlight being “In the peak of the attitude era, 3.6 million people visited wwe.com based on a Feburary 2001 quarterly earnings report(2). In 2013, more than 14 million people have visited wwe.com. That’s 10.4 million more viewers, but more importantly 10.4 million possibilities of a purchase in wweshop.com, WWE home videos, Classics on Demand and other wwe media”. That was an excellent way of describing how WWE’s business is stronger in terms of brand awareness.

Then you went back to the financial figures and fell off again. Okay, so this debate concerns how WWE’s business is “doing better than EVER”. Well, why have you shown me a breakdown of statistics involving classics on demand where the figures have declined at a steady rate from 2008 to 2012? WWE quite clearly aren’t doing better than EVER, in that case, seeing as they were doing better with that outlet in 2008, while that business model by itself doesn’t seem steady at all. It’s one thing using spin to make impressive individual comparisons, but it’s another to bury yourself with a poor choice of statistical highlighting. The joke that you made was actually made funnier seeing as your maths class kind of backfired on you. Also, I headlined your mother’s bedroom last night, while where on those types of jokes

Again, the $33 million gain in revenue looks good at a quick glance, but has that actually made WWE’s overall revenue that much stronger compared to their “best days”? Where is the vital evidence to suggest that this makes a difference? If you have the evidence to say so, then include it please. “So why is WWE more profitable now than the Attitude Era?” Well…it actually isn’t necessarily more profitable, as I’ve already explained…

Not the best debate by any means, but the intro was solid while there were three paragraphs concerning brand awareness that made it at least a very worthwhile read. Unfortunately this concentrated far too much on cherry picked stats that didn’t hold up against the bigger picture.

Evolution

The intro is okay, but eurgh at the use of smileys, hopefully that doesn’t become a trend in debates, although I have seen a few on this card.

Okay, so this debate takes a slightly different stance by suggesting that WWE are in a stronger state now because they have a better long term business model, despite the idea that the WWE might have made more money back in 1998-2001. It’s great to see one of the debaters in this match acknowledge that WWE have a stronger business now because of the ultimate lack of competition.

While like Headliner, your WWE financial stats don’t necessarily take inflation into account, they do however give a strong example of how WWE’s overall business model is much steadier than it was in the boom of the attitude era, which is something that Headliner failed to do. I liked the use of the NJPW graph as a way of comparison, although it would have been much better with a similar WWE graph right next to it. None the less, your point about the AE level of business being unsustainable remains valid.

Now, here’s where Headliner missed a trick and you sped far ahead of him. You went absolutely cut throat and explained how WWE’s modern TV deal has made them a bigger brand globally and how important this is within the context of making themselves a far bigger brand worldwide, especially in comparison to the attitude era. The stupid “smark” quote made me smirk, but again the smiley can fuck off. You furthered this by stating how WWE now has the pick of the best wrestling talent in the west (with rare exceptions such as Devitt, obviously, although WWE would probably just waste him, obviously) and how this has strengthened them as a business in comparison to the AE WWF when WcW were obviously lurking around the corner. You could have made a point about WcW to strengthen your stance to be honest, but you at least managed to have a dig at TNA in the next paragraph to strengthen your argument of how WWE is the only show in town and this is why they’re in a stronger position business wise.

The final paragraph is a good summary of your debate and also highlights how it would be naïve to just focus on the money aspect of WWE’s business dealings within this debate. Again, not liking the smiley but it’s a strong finish regardless of that.


Decision:

One debate took a far narrower view of this topic but ended up fluffing their lines at points, while the other was broad and gave strong arguments for how the company is far more stable now without any viable competition. This is an easy decision for anyone who’s not fooled by cherry picked statistics
.
Headliner: ***

Evolution: ***3/4

Evolution wins the vote
Quote:
Winner via Split Decision - Headliner
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:09 AM   #42 (permalink)
What?
What?
 
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Default Re: TDL X: STACKED - THE RESULTS

Seabs voted for Headliner because he knew what debate was mine and was bitter about losing last card.




Last edited by Evolution : 12-22-2013 at 01:20 AM.
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Old 12-22-2013, 02:31 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Default Re: TDL X: STACKED - THE RESULTS

^ paranoid wanker gimmick is mine thank you very much
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Old 12-22-2013, 05:03 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: TDL X: STACKED - THE RESULTS

Quote:
Headliner: Mystery..... solved.
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Old 12-22-2013, 05:22 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Default Re: TDL X: STACKED - THE RESULTS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush View Post
Am i the only one to defeat Andre? Perfect 1-0 record over that faggot. Clearly the Norwich to my Liverpool
I believe you are . Looking at the sports division rankings is an ugly with thought. Andre 12 points clear of #2
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Old 12-22-2013, 05:31 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: TDL X: STACKED - THE RESULTS

would be closer but i was ROBBED against Seabs, and i keep getting beaten by Americans on American topics
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Old 12-22-2013, 06:03 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Default Re: TDL X: STACKED - THE RESULTS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush View Post
Am i the only one to defeat Andre? Perfect 1-0 record over that faggot. Clearly the Norwich to my Liverpool
Clique beat him too but that was a rushed impromptu match in Social. You're the only one in Sports or Wrestling to beat him.
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Old 12-22-2013, 10:54 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Default Re: TDL X: STACKED - THE RESULTS

A lot of great debates.

@ "Random faggot in Math"
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:03 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Default Re: TDL X: STACKED - THE RESULTS

Movement plz
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:12 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Default Re: TDL X: STACKED - THE RESULTS

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Originally Posted by Deadman_15/Brandon
A retraction and restatement time, really. To tell everyone the truth for me; I've been a bad way for a good few months now, mentally, extremely.
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