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Old 09-29-2013, 11:15 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Legacy of Rock-Foley "I Quit" match

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Originally Posted by Boots2Asses View Post
2003 Hollywood Rock would run circles around Cena in the ring.He was so fast that cruiser-weights like Hurricane,high-flyers like Jeff Hardy etc, couldn't keep up with him.
I thought about it after posting and should not have mentioned my opinion about Cena being a better worker. THe point I was trying to make was that Rock was not willing to take the kind of punishment and abuse his body to the extremes necessary to be the top guy in a promotion like the one's mentioned. There is no arguing that Rock depended much more on mic work than in ring work to secure the top spot. If Rock had went to one of those promotion I think he would have gotten a similar reaction as Cena did at ECW.
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Old 09-29-2013, 11:28 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Legacy of Rock-Foley "I Quit" match

I think it's an absolutely barbaric, brutal, violent, masterpiece. Behind Tully/Magnum and Flair/Funk as the 3rd greatest I Quit match of all time. Yes it went too far, yes it's a bit hard to watch at the end, but the feud called for barbaric violence. It was the only way Foley could lose the strap without coming out looking weak. I wouldn't rate it as one of Foley's 5 best matches, but it is Top 10. The things Rocky did to Mick were just inhuman. The story it told, the intensity, and the aggression displayed by both Rock and Mick make it unbelievably captivating. I wouldn't say it's entertaining, just like I wouldn't say HiaC with Taker is entertaining. That implies that you are happy while watching it. I for one am not. Those two matches put me in edge and give me a sinking feeling in my stomach because I've read Foleys books and know what it cost him. In the end, like I said, it's a barbaric masterpiece of violent story telling.

Like I said in another thread, Foleys gift to the wrestling world was to take guys that were already over with the crowd but maybe not respected as bad asses, and make them out to be world beating, ass kicking, take no shit bad asses. Just by stepping in the ring and surviving against Mick Foley.

He did it with HBK at Mindgames 1996, Rocky at RR1999, Triple H at RR2000, Orton at Backlash 2004, and Edge at WM22. That's a who's who list of top guys from the 2000's. Foley is God. Glorified stuntman my ass.
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Old 09-29-2013, 03:29 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Legacy of Rock-Foley "I Quit" match

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Originally Posted by Cactus Jack View Post
He did it with HBK at Mindgames 1996, Rocky at RR1999, Triple H at RR2000, Orton at Backlash 2004, and Edge at WM22. That's a who's who list of top guys from the 2000's. Foley is God. Glorified stuntman my ass.
Just came in here to post this exact thing. And the best part is that at no time did Foley end up coming off weak. I honestly struggle to think of one guy in history who has basically made more top guys than Mick. Its like, sure they were top guys by virtue of having been champion or past champions, but almost in the sense of (and I know I'll get hate for this) ADR. Now I'm not comparing any of them to ADR, but Hunter in particular really felt kind of meh as champion in late 1999, despite being presented as a top guy. Its one thing for the WWE to tell us "this is your champion", but something entirely different for the fans to truly believe it. Each of these guys' careers were catapulted into super stardom thanks to their feuds with Mick. And needless to say, after the Street Fight with Cactus, Hunter's credibility increased tenfold and that truly established him as a top contender. Same with Rock. Foley just had this ability to tap into the star potential of his opponents and bring it out, which is a rare, rare gift.

I personally believe this is the best I Quit I've ever seen. Granted, I have seen Flair/Funk and Magnum/Tully, but my viewing took place years after (as in, within the past few years) and I find them really dated. Its not necessarily because of the spots or anything, but watching them now, I just didn't see anything that truly captivated me. At the time, perhaps they were amazing, though time hasn't done them justice, I find. I find a lot of Flair's work to be like that. I recently rewatched the Steamboat trilogy from 1989 and while they were definitely good, I have trouble agreeing with some people like Meltzer who call them all 5 stars. Maybe its because they don't appeal to what I look for as a wrestling fan. There are some matches I can watch over and over and over, and some I can't. Flair's work usually falls into the latter category. Foley, on the other hand, falls into the former. And I'm not just talking about his work when he was donating his body to the business. There was no blood or jaw droppingly insane spots in his match with Shawn at Mind Games, or with Austin at Unforgiven and Over the Edge. I can still rewatch those and be quite entertained (the Mind Games match is a true underrated classic, in my mind). Foley has this very wrong reputation tacked onto him where he can only take bumps and do hardcore. Most people overlook that the guy could work a stellar match without any of that.

For the I Quit match, anyone who says it was blood and gore only clearly missed the point. Those were tools used to convey a captivating story. The story is what is the masterpiece, not the violence, but the violence was necessary to tell that story. Foley is this hardcore icon who has never quit, no matter what, and you clearly see how desperate Rock gets when he hits Foley, who won't stay down, and just continually wails on him with the chair. And it gets built up so well that when Foley tells Rock "you'll have to kill me!", I just thought, "my god, he's taken this much punishment and now fully admits he'll sacrifice his life to keep his pride safe. This is profound and yet so tragic." It really played with your emotions, and that's what wrestling is supposed to do. When a guy says he'd sooner die than admit his opponent is the better man, how can you not just get that feeling in your gut and a bit choked up?

Not only did the match do wonders for Rock and Foley, but the title looked like a million bucks because of that feud. These two guys had an absolute war, starting with this feud, where they did almost everything BUT kill each other, and it was all so they could win the belt, which in turn signifies that they are the best. It was so much more than just a belt, it was a symbol. I hold this, and I am the best. And those matches, particularly I Quit, proved how far their characters would go to prove that. They would risk and accept death (kayfabe) simply to prove that they were better than the other, or deny that proof. And the reward for this sacrifice was the belt. How does the belt NOT look incredible? Its worth dying over, for god's sake. That's why seeing Cena and company in 2013 makes me so fucking pissed. Remember in Cena's feud with Punk in the fall of 2012? Cena said "Punk, pick me or don't pick me, I don't care, I'll get another title shot at some point. I already know I'm the best and I tell myself that every day." This is the belt characters have spent their entire lives trying to attain, and some have even willingly accepted death so they could keep/win it because of what it signified, and here Cena is treating it like this ho hum prop that it really doesn't matter if he gets. How DARE he. That kind of shit is why the WWE title means nothing in 2013. That's because they've thrown around the belt so often that its lost so much meaning. Cena has 13 title reigns, why should he care if he gets another? That's why his attitude is so blase. He's spoiled. Mankind was ready to give his life just so Rock couldn't prove he was better than him in his FIRST title reign. This is also why Mick Foley's combined 29 odd days as WWF champion are way better than any of the days Cena has been champion. Those 29 days meant so fucking much, and I struggle to think of 1 Cena reign that can even scrape up a tenth of the importance.
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Old 09-29-2013, 03:54 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Legacy of Rock-Foley "I Quit" match

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Originally Posted by creepycrawl View Post
Those promotions required for you to not only be able to give a brutal beating, but to take one as well. I couldn't help but to think of the ECW reaction to Cena when I read this and Cena, imo, is a better in ring worker than Rock. Promotion like the ones you listed would never make a man that relies more on mic skill than in ring ability their number 1 guy.
Don't confuse never had to with can't. Mic's a hardcore wrestler because he's boxed into that role because of his looks.

Conversely guys like Rock, Cena get called up to the big leagues and pushed right away because of their size/ athleticism. If Heyman had his hands on a talent like Rock or Cena they're going to get pushed.
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Old 09-29-2013, 05:11 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Legacy of Rock-Foley "I Quit" match

Match of the year IMO. Great match all the way through. I would have just had Rock beat him unconscious, but the ending was still good. Still the best RTWM feud ever, those guys had wicked chemistry, both in the ring and on the mic.
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Old 09-30-2013, 12:18 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: Legacy of Rock-Foley "I Quit" match

Even though I find the enjoyment of the match questionable post-handcuffs, I should say that it was phenomenally entertaining before that.

One of my favorite spots was Rock when hit the ring bell with a hammer by Foley's ear, grabbed the mic, and sang "bells will be riiiingiiiing."

Last edited by Brickhouse : 09-30-2013 at 12:25 AM.
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Old 09-30-2013, 03:17 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: Legacy of Rock-Foley "I Quit" match

The best part about that corporate champion gimmick was when he would start to do commentary during his matches,and talk smack to JR and King.Amazing stuff
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1.Holds the record of drawing most major shows with 10,000+ attendance on top in one calendar year.[Broke Hogan's(1986) and Austin's(1998) record in 1999 and set a record of headlining over 100 shows with 10,000 plus people in attendance in year 2000.A box-office drawing record that is unsurpassed till date.]

2.Holds the record of main-eventing almost 17 PPVs that have got over 500k buys(again,a feat of inimitable drawing power that is unmatched by anyone in pro-wrestling history)

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Old 09-30-2013, 08:17 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: Legacy of Rock-Foley "I Quit" match

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This.
Some people who hate on The Rock call him cheesy, the most PG guy in the Attitude Era and someone who made a name for himself by cutting childish promos but this guy proved in 99 that he would fuck you up for real.
The Rock proved not only that he is the biggest draw and his greatness in this childish PG era in his confrontations with John Cena, he also proved that he would also be #1 in ECW, CZW or any japanese promotions that featured death matches


The Rock in 1999 was anything but cheesy. Even when he turned face, he was still that cocky, trash talking dick. His character became significantly more watered down the next year, though.
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Old 09-30-2013, 08:30 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: Legacy of Rock-Foley "I Quit" match

As for Foley: there was always a real method to his madness. When he did crazy shit and put his body on the line, it actually mattered and merely added to the match itself. He was a master of ring psychology and the real, true successor to Jake Roberts.



Anyone who worked anggle with Foley were made to look like a million bucks. He contributed a great deal to solidifying Rock and HHH as legitimate main event stars and the only time Orton ever looked credible was when he was working with Foley.

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Old 09-30-2013, 08:40 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: Legacy of Rock-Foley "I Quit" match

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Originally Posted by Doug Dillinger View Post
The Rock in 1999 was anything but cheesy. Even when he turned face, he was still that cocky, trash talking dick. His character became significantly more watered down the next year, though.
Was Vince Russo's departure the major reason behind him watering down his character?
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THE ROCK: The biggest star and draw of pro-wrestling industry EVER.

1.Holds the record of drawing most major shows with 10,000+ attendance on top in one calendar year.[Broke Hogan's(1986) and Austin's(1998) record in 1999 and set a record of headlining over 100 shows with 10,000 plus people in attendance in year 2000.A box-office drawing record that is unsurpassed till date.]

2.Holds the record of main-eventing almost 17 PPVs that have got over 500k buys(again,a feat of inimitable drawing power that is unmatched by anyone in pro-wrestling history)

3.Drew the highest cable ratings during the AE.

4.Sold more merchandise than anyone active between mid 1999-2001.
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