The Other Side: Bret Hart - Page 2 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
Reply

Old 05-08-2013, 11:18 AM   #11 (permalink)
Humbled
 
Yosihait's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Israel
Posts: 503
Yosihait 50 - 100
Default Re: The Other Side: Bret Hart

Quote:
Originally Posted by therock11 View Post
I see some people on this forum always saying Bret was overrated but I never understood how. Bret Hart may actually be the most underrated wrestler in the history of the business.I consider Bret Hart the greatest technical wrestler of all time. His technical crispness is better than pretty much anyone ever. He spent years in mid card hell always putting on the best matches anyone has ever seen before he even held the WWF Championship. Bret became so popular that at one point he received more fan mail than Hulk Hogan. He also paved the way for smaller guys like Shawn Michaels to become world champions after the whole steroid scandal almost broke the WWF. I wish Bret Hart had been able to stick around during the Attitude era of the WWF to show how much of a benefit he was to the WWF in their post Hulkamania transition. Growing up, Bret Hart made me believe that being the WWF Champion was the greatest accomplishment any man could achieve.
He didn't.

Bret at the Attitude would be like his brother... Midcarder. Except for a feud with the Rock, maybe. Can anybody imagine Bret in the Attitude? The Attitude wasn't about Bret's strong sides.

And I think he's overrated because he's not one of the notable wrestlers. In the ring, unlike Michaels, he couldn't make his matches be so historical (Unless he fought against guys that could've done it, like Michaels and Austin). Michaels was GREAT at making his matches memorable. Bret never had this.
Yosihait is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 05-08-2013, 11:58 AM   #12 (permalink)
Parks and Recreation Dept.
 
HankHill_85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 3,005
HankHill_85 3501 - 4000HankHill_85 3501 - 4000HankHill_85 3501 - 4000HankHill_85 3501 - 4000HankHill_85 3501 - 4000HankHill_85 3501 - 4000HankHill_85 3501 - 4000HankHill_85 3501 - 4000HankHill_85 3501 - 4000HankHill_85 3501 - 4000HankHill_85 3501 - 4000
Default Re: The Other Side: Bret Hart

Wholeheartedly disagree with Yosihait. Bret made many of his most well-known matches memorable.

- Him blading at Mania 8 against Piper: Bret's idea.
- Austin blading at Mania 13: Bret's idea. And the match is forever remembered for that iconic image of Austin's face caked in blood screaming.
- Table spot at Survivor Series '95 against Diesel: Bret's idea.

Just a few examples.

If there was just one simple compliment I would say about Bret in the ring, it's that he was diverse and could adapt like almost no one else. Guys like Hogan, Warrior, even Flair, if you saw just one of their matches, you saw them all. Guys like Bret, HBK, Savage, you almost never saw the same match twice. The ability to give a crowd something different each night didn't belong to many, but guys like Bret had it.
__________________
Arrive.
F5.
End The Streak.

HankHill_85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 12:15 PM   #13 (permalink)
Humbled
 
Yosihait's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Israel
Posts: 503
Yosihait 50 - 100
Default Re: The Other Side: Bret Hart

Quote:
Originally Posted by HankHill_85 View Post
Wholeheartedly disagree with Yosihait. Bret made many of his most well-known matches memorable.

- Him blading at Mania 8 against Piper: Bret's idea.
- Austin blading at Mania 13: Bret's idea. And the match is forever remembered for that iconic image of Austin's face caked in blood screaming.
- Table spot at Survivor Series '95 against Diesel: Bret's idea.

Just a few examples.

If there was just one simple compliment I would say about Bret in the ring, it's that he was diverse and could adapt like almost no one else. Guys like Hogan, Warrior, even Flair, if you saw just one of their matches, you saw them all. Guys like Bret, HBK, Savage, you almost never saw the same match twice. The ability to give a crowd something different each night didn't belong to many, but guys like Bret had it.
Except for the Austin one, none of them is REALLY memorable or historical.

Those are good matches for the Hardcore Wrestling fans... Not for the common guy.

Even the match with Piper- It was good, but not the most memorable match from that night. Savage and Flair and even Warrior's return were more memorable.
Yosihait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 12:17 PM   #14 (permalink)
I'll never be lonesome again.
 
L-DOPA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: London, UK
Posts: 4,874
L-DOPA 7001 - 7501L-DOPA 7001 - 7501L-DOPA 7001 - 7501L-DOPA 7001 - 7501L-DOPA 7001 - 7501L-DOPA 7001 - 7501L-DOPA 7001 - 7501L-DOPA 7001 - 7501L-DOPA 7001 - 7501L-DOPA 7001 - 7501L-DOPA 7001 - 7501
Default Re: The Other Side: Bret Hart

BRET IS CRY
BRET IS CRY
BRET IS CRY
BRET IS CRY
BRET IS CRY
BRET IS CRY
BRET IS CRY
BRET IS CRY


__________________


I'm a Laura Stevenson guy
L-DOPA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 01:09 PM   #15 (permalink)
Humbled
 
Yosihait's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Israel
Posts: 503
Yosihait 50 - 100
Default Re: The Other Side: Bret Hart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusade View Post
BRET IS CRY
BRET IS CRY
BRET IS CRY
BRET IS CRY
BRET IS CRY
BRET IS CRY
BRET IS CRY
BRET IS CRY


Yeah.

Although this time... It has nothing to do with the subject.

But Bret does rates himself up there with Shawn, Flair, Austin, Rock and Hogan- While he's only at the rate of Steamboat, Angle and Jericho. It's good... But it's not the best.
Yosihait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 01:21 PM   #16 (permalink)
I'll never be lonesome again.
 
L-DOPA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: London, UK
Posts: 4,874
L-DOPA 7001 - 7501L-DOPA 7001 - 7501L-DOPA 7001 - 7501L-DOPA 7001 - 7501L-DOPA 7001 - 7501L-DOPA 7001 - 7501L-DOPA 7001 - 7501L-DOPA 7001 - 7501L-DOPA 7001 - 7501L-DOPA 7001 - 7501L-DOPA 7001 - 7501
Default Re: The Other Side: Bret Hart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosihait View Post
He didn't.

Bret at the Attitude would be like his brother... Midcarder. Except for a feud with the Rock, maybe. Can anybody imagine Bret in the Attitude? The Attitude wasn't about Bret's strong sides.
Whilst I agree that the attitude era didn't suit Bret's strongest attributes, Bret was in nearly all the big storylines and feuds in 1997 before the Survivor Series. He was the joint top guy with HBK. Obviously something you are going to deny heavily despite it being fact. Now, I'm not saying he would be the top guy by the time Austin and especially Rock would come through but are you seriously suggesting Bret would have just dropped straight back down to the midcard during that time after arguably having his best year ever in 1997? I highly doubt it...
__________________


I'm a Laura Stevenson guy
L-DOPA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 01:24 PM   #17 (permalink)
NO!
Wheel Man for SCOTT STEINER
 
NO!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,043
NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000
Default Re: The Other Side: Bret Hart

I don't see why it matters if some "common fan" can't see him as the great wrestler he is. He's one of the most important wrestlers of all time who paved the way for guys who weren't exactly "huge" from a physical standpoint and could do more than the same 5 moves every night.

vs. Mr. Perfect at Summerslam 1991
vs. Stone Cold at Wrestlemania 13
vs. Roddy Piper at Wrestlemania 8
vs. Mr. Perfect at King of the Ring 1993
vs. Owen Hart at Wrestlemania X
vs. Owen Hart Cage Match at Summerslam 1994
vs. Davey Boy Smith at Summerslam 1992
vs. Stone Cold at Survivor Series 1996


He even got good to great matches out of:

Diesel
Razor Ramon
Yokozuna
Jean-Pierre Lafitte
Jerry Lawler
Jeff Jarrett
Sycho Sid
The Patriot etc.

And of course his matches with Shawn Michaels (just about all of them), Vader, Hakushi, 123 Kid and a few others with Owen and Steve Austin.

That's not even counting all of the great matches of the Hart Foundation.
__________________
NO! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 01:30 PM   #18 (permalink)
NO!
Wheel Man for SCOTT STEINER
 
NO!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,043
NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000
Default Re: The Other Side: Bret Hart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosihait View Post
Yeah.

Although this time... It has nothing to do with the subject.

But Bret does rates himself up there with Shawn, Flair, Austin, Rock and Hogan- While he's only at the rate of Steamboat, Angle and Jericho. It's good... But it's not the best.
Where did you get the idea that Shawn is as popular as Steve Austin, Hogan, and The Rock? Much like Bret, Shawn is a huge fan-favorite when it comes to die hard fans more so than the "common fan". Shawn never really was the face of the company during a time where they were doing great business or anything. He was on top in 1996, a year where they weren't exactly doing so great from a lucrative standpoint, to my knowledge.

Being the most pushed guy or biggest draw or whatever hardly makes you the most talented. I mean, John Cena isn't better than Chris Jericho just because hes been on top of the company for nearly a decade while Jericho was mostly an emergency main eventer.
__________________
NO! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 01:37 PM   #19 (permalink)
Acknowledged by SCOTT STEINER
 
theidealstranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,377
theidealstranger 501 - 1000theidealstranger 501 - 1000theidealstranger 501 - 1000theidealstranger 501 - 1000theidealstranger 501 - 1000theidealstranger 501 - 1000
Default Re: The Other Side: Bret Hart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosihait View Post
He didn't.

Bret at the Attitude would be like his brother... Midcarder. Except for a feud with the Rock, maybe. Can anybody imagine Bret in the Attitude? The Attitude wasn't about Bret's strong sides.

And I think he's overrated because he's not one of the notable wrestlers. In the ring, unlike Michaels, he couldn't make his matches be so historical (Unless he fought against guys that could've done it, like Michaels and Austin). Michaels was GREAT at making his matches memorable. Bret never had this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by therock11 View Post
I see some people on this forum always saying Bret was overrated but I never understood how. Bret Hart may actually be the most underrated wrestler in the history of the business.I consider Bret Hart the greatest technical wrestler of all time. His technical crispness is better than pretty much anyone ever. He spent years in mid card hell always putting on the best matches anyone has ever seen before he even held the WWF Championship. Bret became so popular that at one point he received more fan mail than Hulk Hogan. He also paved the way for smaller guys like Shawn Michaels to become world champions after the whole steroid scandal almost broke the WWF. I wish Bret Hart had been able to stick around during the Attitude era of the WWF to show how much of a benefit he was to the WWF in their post Hulkamania transition. Growing up, Bret Hart made me believe that being the WWF Champion was the greatest accomplishment any man could achieve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosihait View Post
Yeah.

Although this time... It has nothing to do with the subject.

But Bret does rates himself up there with Shawn, Flair, Austin, Rock and Hogan- While he's only at the rate of Steamboat, Angle and Jericho. It's good... But it's not the best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusade View Post
Whilst I agree that the attitude era didn't suit Bret's strongest attributes, Bret was in nearly all the big storylines and feuds in 1997 before the Survivor Series. He was the joint top guy with HBK. Obviously something you are going to deny heavily despite it being fact. Now, I'm not saying he would be the top guy by the time Austin and especially Rock would come through but are you seriously suggesting Bret would have just dropped straight back down to the midcard during that time after arguably having his best year ever in 1997? I highly doubt it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by NO! View Post
Where did you get the idea that Shawn is as popular as Steve Austin, Hogan, and The Rock? Much like Bret, Shawn is a huge fan-favorite when it comes to die hard fans more so than the "common fan". Shawn never really was the face of the company during a time where they were doing great business or anything. He was on top in 1996, a year where they weren't exactly doing so great from a lucrative standpoint, to my knowledge.

Being the most pushed guy or biggest draw or whatever hardly makes you the most talented. I mean, John Cena isn't better than Chris Jericho just because hes been on top of the company for nearly a decade while Jericho was mostly an emergency main eventer.
Guys, a humble request to keep the topic inside the ring between the bells and not spill into draw, fan favorite or place in Attitude Era. Let us stick to things like his move set, psychology, storytelling, flow, connection to audience in the match and things that happen in the match. Yes, thinking about blading and spots to add effect does count. Thanks for bringing that up.
__________________
Don't fear the axe, fear the man holding it!

Spoiler for TIMBER!:
theidealstranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 01:57 PM   #20 (permalink)
NO!
Wheel Man for SCOTT STEINER
 
NO!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,043
NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000NO! 1501 - 2000
Default Re: The Other Side: Bret Hart

Move set = Very good for its time. Bret has been surpassed in the ring, but that's only expected as his last match in the WWE was in 1997 and things have obviously changed a lot. But there's no doubt in my mind that he played a huge role in the evolution of the in-ring quality for the WWE.

Psychology = Excellent. He approached his matches with different methodical techniques. When he wanted a match to be personal, he'd add something intense to it in order to do so. Sometimes this meant blood, executing a dirty move that was somewhat out of character and reserved for a special occasion, or just his mannerisms and demeanor.

Storytelling = This is sort of pertinent to the above. He seemed to work well against his own family. I particularly remember Canadian Stampede though, where Austin took Owen Hart out of the match by doing the figure four lock around the ring post. Bret would go on to do the same submission on Steve Austin, which resulted in Stone Cold leaving the match as well temporarily. But his feuds with Owen and Davey where even other members of the Hart family got involved were very well done.

Flow - I think the flow of his matches were usually best when he was in control. It depends on the opponent. Same thing with Shawn Michaels during the same time period. They faced a lot of opponents who were obviously not as adept in the ring as they were. So sometimes when Bret was taking the hits, the flow of the match would often become sluggish if it was against a mediocre opponent or something.

He was a dynamic wrestler, especially considering the time period. He made guys like Diesel look better... Vader, Patriot, etc. Even in a rare match with Andre the Giant, I think he made Andre look better by the way he sold in the match. I don't know if I'd say he is the greatest of all time like you asked. He might be my personal favorite, but there are a few others I'd put before him.
__________________
NO! is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums
Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2
Powered by vBulletin Copyright 2000-2009 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios