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Old 05-04-2013, 06:44 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1985 MOTYC thread.

This will be interesting. Stuff I've never seen before.
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Old 05-04-2013, 06:51 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1985 MOTYC thread.

The 6 man tag is '84. Watched it yesterday .

Will force myself to check out the RNR/Russians tag later on.
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Old 05-04-2013, 07:08 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1985 MOTYC thread.

Lawler/Savage 6/3/85 is a great overlooked shout. Top 3 Loser Leaves Town match for Lawler just below the '83 and '85 Dundee matches. Savage is brilliant as the maniacal and deranged lunatic, Lawler rules the world as the passionate and heroic babyface, the teased finish is beautiful and the final climax of the match might actually be the definitive Lawler comeback and finishing stretch. Simply majestic.

Flair/Koko Ware 11/18/85 is a great Flair title defence which never really gets mentioned when people think of the Steamboat, Funk, Windham, Rhodes, Morton, Wahoo, Garvin etc defences. Koko is a truly lost great worker, Flair in '85 bumps, stooges and plays off of Koko magnificently and you get a really great plucky babyface vs touring champion sensation dynamic.

Flair/Roberts 11/24/85 is a truly masterful performance by both men. The build and booking with the pre match DDT and Jake relentlessly targeting the neck of Flair to soften him up for his decisive blow. The work is just timed and paced superbly with a ridiculously hot crowd coming unglued for everything they see.

Duggan/Dibiase 3/22/85 is one of the best feud ender matches in history. Perfectly booked and structured, intense and chaotic, packed with stiff punches and numerous teases of Dibiase again sneaking past Duggan when it matters most. Numerous call backs to past moments of their feud, a sympathetic and expressive babyface opposite the devious and snake like heel and the finish that was two years in the making. Dibiase/Flair 11/6/85 whilst only going 7-8 minutes as a match is also a perfectly booked segment with the pre match and post match Murdoch heel turn and bloody beating of Dibiase. Dibiase turning face in the process and then valiantly agreeing to wrestle despite the blood dripping from his head because its likely the one and only chance at the World Title he's been dreaming of his whole career is just beautiful storytelling and he sells every blow and desire to control the match majestically.

Duggan/Sawyer 11/11/85 is also a fabulous bloody brawl with an all time great post match angle that sees them fighting through security and eventually into the back screaming and tearing at the other. Sawyer takes some lunatic bumps on the outside into the guardrail, Duggan on top throws great punches and is a suitably vicious bastard whilst Sawyer bumps and times every little transition to perfection. Finish is a tad anticlimatic but it sets up the post match angle tremendously and man that angle is just incredible. Sawyer bleeding over his body, being held back by half a dozen guys and just screaming Duggan's name in the most maniacal and twisted voice you can ever hear before collapsing from blood loss was just astounding.

Flair/Kerry 12/10/85 is the dogs bollocks and another truly overlooked Flair defence. Absolutely love how they incorporate the claw into the match and its packed with the typical Flair intricacies that make his matches work so well: Kerry controls and looks effortlessly great and the champion to be, Flair stooges, bumps and demonstrates his impeccable resiliency and intestinal fortitude to come back from the brink of defeat.

Reed/Murdoch 9/22/85 is a great character study as its face/face but Murdoch is on the verge of the heel turn that would culminate with his involvement in the Dibiase/Flair title match. They work some really simple but progressive exchanges and perfectly time the transition from a feeling out process into both men slowly getting under the others' skin and breaking the match into a nasty brawl. Murdoch throws some jaw shattering punches, sells everything in the theatrical but still tremendous way that only Murdoch can and Reed continues to demonstrate how overlooked and talented he was during this time.

Fujiwara/Super Tiger 9/11/85 is another gem in their series which I've long championed as being far above the famed and generally critically acclaimed Dynamite Kid/Tiger Mask series. Fujiwara as the grappling marvel constantly looking for submissions and to ground Tiger makes for a great story and being the great worker Fujiwara is he structures all of Tiger's strikes and highspots perfectly and bumps and sells each one in this really intricate way that has you buying each strike could be closer to finishing the match. As far as technical vs striker matches go this series might very well be the benchmark for that style.

Wahoo/Flair 2/3 Falls from BOTB 9/2/85 might be a top three Flair title defence alongside the Worldwide Windham match and Steamboat from Clash of the Champions. Flair again bumps and sells effortlessly for Wahoo and makes him look like the biggest obstacle he'll ever have to overcome to retain the belt. Loved how they made Wahoo the stronger in the strike exchanges and constantly see Flair struggling to piece together a strategy and gameplan that can control him the match. Each fall is timed and worked wonderfully to develop a running narrative and the conclusion is one of Flair's finest with his resiliency and tenacious attitude acting as the perfect counteract to Wahoo's overwhelming power and dominance. A very violent Flair match which again disproves the notion he never deviated or altered the style of match he worked.

Tully/Magnum I Quit is also neck and neck with the match I'd call MOTY (Lawler/Dundee). Amazing babyface/heel dynamic, constantly engrossing, constantly frenetic and violent, nuclear crowd heat, perfect workover and control by Tully that has you fearing for Magnum's safety, every Magnum strike timed wonderfully to keep you hoping he has enough in him to overcome Tully and then one of the best finishes ever with Magnum finally starting to overpower and prove too much for Tully to counter, leading to the perfect finish to encapsulate the hatred the babyface has for the heel and the lengths it would take for one man to finally concede to the other. Beautiful work.

Still, can't look past Lawler/Dundee 12/30/85 as far as the MOTY goes. I'd put it as probably the best match in US history despite the clipping which still infuriates me. Incredible performances from both men with Lawler working with one eye and a patch over the other. Just the intricate little touches of him throwing wayward punches early as he tries to adjust to his hampered vision, coupled with Dundee skulking and moving into his blindspot and using his quickness to hit jabs and punches that Lawler can't defend against. Dundee as the smarmy, scheming and bumping wildman might be his best performance and he just nails every aspect of his character. When he bumps and sells its tremendous and pulls you into the Lawler comeback, when he's on top and toying with a handicapped Lawler he looks like the biggest piece of shit walking the planet. All the little rules of three spots with Lawler countering one of Dundee's moves on the third attempt and having the crowd scream in excitement just fascinate me and everything from when they fight into the crowd to the finish is wonderful and the epitome of wrestling to me. Yes its ridiculous that Lawler can fall over a rail to the floor and be walking 10 seconds later but its timed to perfection and makes him look like the biggest badass and untouchable babyface you've ever seen. Dundee weaseling and trying fruitlessly to usurp Lawler's dominance just adds to the tension and the finish is still a personal favourite of mine.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xi8...2#.UYTz8sqGXeE

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Old 05-04-2013, 07:27 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1985 MOTYC thread.

Fujiwara v. Super Tiger 9/11/85, if it's the one I'm remembering (since there were a half-dozen of them), is possibly the best one man show I've ever seen. Sayama, while he did a couple of things that kind of bugged me, didn't TRULY subtract anything from that match, but holy sweet Heaven it was a complete Fujiwara show. I don't really like calling anything in wrestling 'subtle' since 'subtle' implies it should take some sort of effort to find or analyse, and I think everything good about wrestling should be obvious and that wrestling at its best is simple, yet I there were things I DO kind of want to call 'subtleties' since they weren't huge parts of the match. Still 'subtle' isn;t the right word, methinks, so, I guess I'll call Fujiwara here, just, IDK, 'real'. Dude had a leg submission on and reacted exactly how you'd think someone in a leg submission should react - he covered his face with a free hand so Tiger couldn't strike him. It's so simple but so genius. How many people do that? Tiger wasn't even attacking him and he just covered up witht he thought process of 'that fucker COULD attack me'. That's not the best spot in the match and if I said it was a classic based on that you'd probably think I was insane, but he works the whole match like a legit fight and nothing he does looks like a form of acting. This was UWF where they worked (and almost originated, I guess), the 'shoot style' wrestling, and they tried to make their matches look as much LIKE 'shoots' as possible. Nobody did that better than Fujiwara.

I've always thought 'it takes two to have a great match' is kind of bullshit since I've seen so many one man shows and carry-jobs that showed me otherwise, but I've always thought it takes two to have a classic. Then Fujiwara looks me in the eye and says 'no, it doesn't'. You want to call any match "Man v. Broomstick" then you look at Fujiwara v. Sayama 9/11/85 (or, again, whatever the best one was if that wasn't it. It's probably it, though).
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Old 05-04-2013, 07:37 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1985 MOTYC thread.

Yeah a lot of their matches blend together but I remember 12/5/84 and one match from July (7/17?) I think as standing out alongside the 9/11/85 match. Yeah Fujiwara in seemingly every match just throws out these little touches in matches that stand out when you consider how simple they are and yet how Fujiwara and a select few only seem to consider them necessary to include in matches. I could watch Fujiwara sell Sayama's strikes all day long tbh. Just the way he'll sell the weaker ones as stunning him but not overselling just wows me and there's one spot where he takes a kick from Sayama, catches it into a leg hold but the kick still connects and he has this delayed collapse sell still clutching onto the leg. Honestly its so simple but it just felt like such a smart way to sell a spot like that. The fact he times each counter at the right time to hook you into wondering whether Sayama can finish him before Fujiwara seemingly finds that decisive counter is also a staple of what makes their matches so dramatic and packed with constant tension.

As for 'it takes two to have a great match', eh I agree with you that shouldn't be a fact. With the right performer who's expressive and throws out all these simple but logical touches to matches (Tenryu, Funk, Finlay, Fujiwara, Murdoch) you can build a great match purely around one worker and their character. I mean the amount of matches of Tenryu I've loved just based around his grouchy demeanour and simple hierarchical exchanges is endless. Fujiwara's counters, timing, execution, bumping, selling, facial expressions and constant tinkering and working every hold to its maximum can easily lead someone to a great match so long as they hit their comebacks and offence well and don't appear outright shit to the point it lessens the exchanges.
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Old 05-04-2013, 07:50 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1985 MOTYC thread.

I think 7/17/85 goes about ten minutes. Either that or it's JIP'ed to ten minutes. Could be wrong. 12/5/84 gets a crap ton of time and is probably their second best match and an 84 MOTYC for sure.

Quote:
there's one spot where he takes a kick from Sayama, catches it into a leg hold but the kick still connects and he has this delayed collapse sell still clutching onto the leg
Holy shit I remember this. If you told me it was a different opponent I would ave believed you since I don't remember it THAT well, but I remember Fujiwara doing this. You see what I mean? I'm picturing Fujiwara catching the leg of a blacked-out humanoid shape because his opponent had so little effect on the match.

Dick Murdoch made a great match with Wild Samoan Afa who did literally nothing to contribute. I guess him being the beastly guy that he was helped Murdoch fall to the ground when trying to headbutt him and then calling him a 'cave raider', but that isn't REEEEEEALLY contributing, right?
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Old 05-04-2013, 07:57 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1985 MOTYC thread.

I'm positive it was against Sayama, though there's a tiny part of my brain that says there's a small chance it was vs Yamazuki. Still, it was a mind-blowing spot and a typical Fujiwara trait imo. Just added to the drama with you not knowing if Fujiwara could counter long enough to overcome Sayama's punishing strikes and vice versa. The fact you knew Sayama had to use his kicks to compensate for being outmatched on the mat but was playing into Fujiwara's immense speed and ability to hook a submission within a seconds' notice is just a great theme that is prevalent in every match.

Cena/Khali Judgement Day '07 could probably be added to one guy carrying the match and making it great. I mean, Khali does ok and just basically hits his offence and even throws a quite surprising roundhouse kick, but its all on Cena to sell everything and bump helplessly for everything and time his hope spot where Khali winds up in the ropes and Cena has this great facial expression of realising he has to seize this opportunity and just tees off manically trying to topple Khali.

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Old 05-04-2013, 08:10 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1985 MOTYC thread.

Fujiwara could have done it more than once. Could have been v. anybody and he still stands out. Even the Funakis and Maedas.

Haven't seen Cena/Khali since it aired. Goes for eight or something minutes, might as well watch it when I get to it on the 07 MOTYC comp. I remember the Khali roundhouse, though.
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Old 05-04-2013, 08:14 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1985 MOTYC thread.

I'm not as sound in remembrance when it comes to 1985, But Dynamite Kid/Adrian Adonis (11/7) & Terry Funk/Junkyard Dog (9/16) are both AWESOME matches from what i remember. Rewatches are in near play though, So take my memory in with a grain of salt and a great big box of suicide pills. .
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:15 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1985 MOTYC thread.

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Originally Posted by WOOLCOCK View Post
Flair/Koko Ware 11/18/85 is a great Flair title defence which never really gets mentioned when people think of the Steamboat, Funk, Windham, Rhodes, Morton, Wahoo, Garvin etc defences. Koko is a truly lost great worker, Flair in '85 bumps, stooges and plays off of Koko magnificently and you get a really great plucky babyface vs touring champion sensation dynamic.
Fantastic list. I was going to come in and throw Flair/Ware into the pile but you beat me to it.

Something different and international: there were two women's matches that are all-time classics that happened on the exact same night, 8/22/85.
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