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Old 04-10-2013, 09:31 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Default Re: What could Bret Hart have done against the Kliq?

Not be so fucking loyal and trustworthy. The sad thing is, I think it was pretty much unavoidable for Bret. He had people that he trusted (and some he didn't) straight up lie to his face. That's the kind of thing where you realise where you went wrong when it's too late.

I read Bret's book recently and I honestly have no idea how he ever forgave Vince. But then again I'm not in Bret Hart's shoes, I haven't lived his life. I didn't have the relationship that he had with Vince prior Survivor Series 97.
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:11 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Default Re: What could Bret Hart have done against the Kliq?

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Originally Posted by Nattie7 View Post
you mentioned life is fair
and you're glad bret suffered a stroke

that's real classy, not!

I think that's as much debating I'll be doing on this thread, I can't contribute to such cruel irrational thought
Problem is... Bret sucks.
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:11 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Default Re: What could Bret Hart have done against the Kliq ?

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Originally Posted by Yosihait View Post
Pfft...

I don't have any "Numbers" to back my claim that Bret drew bad? So show me YOUR numbers. Why should I bring numbers? 1993 and 1994 were bad and that's a fact. What is the smallest buyrate for an In Your House event? Bret-Bulldog...

Shawn couldn't draw well in the Ratings because... the nWo was against him. Bret couldn't draw better.

"The point stands, Bret couldn't be hurt by the Kliq and that much is obvious because he was always the face of WWE's programming at the time and he was popular, and though not at all wildly so he was still McMahon's go to man when things weren't working out. I don't know where you got buried from. Even after his run in the WWE there was a lot of interest in Bret, which WCW promptly wasted and then Austin came in"

Not since 1996... Sorry, but Bret felt like he was buried and he deserved it, because he just couldn't do it. He wasn't that successful.

Bret wasn't the best at that time... You've had Taker and Savage.
Wrestlemania 1993 and 1994 headlined by Bret Hart both times got 2.0 and 1.68 buyrates compared to 1995 and 1996 both of which got 1.3 buyrates. The downward trend followed with Summerslam as well, '92, '93, and '94 had 1.5, 1.2 and 1.3 compared to .9 and .58 for Summerslam '95, headlines by Michaels and Ramon and '96 vs Vader.

Christmas timed PPVs never drew anything. It's characteristic every year. Badd Blood drew more than the DX PPV, Buried Alive slightly more than It's Time and so on.

Hell, Canadian Stampede got higher numbers than Ground Zero, and tag team main events were never big draws. Ground Zero was headlined by Michaels and the Undertaker, correct? Two of your 'top' guys.

Fair enough point on the nWo, that's tough competition and by that time WCW had a death grip on most wrestling fans.

I don't know how you could argue he was getting buried. He held the title twice in '97 and was at the focal point of every major feud. Sure, he was feeling he was being phased out because he didn't like the direction they were going in, but buried? Clearly not. The Kliq never had much of an effect on him other than his rivalry with Michaels.

Savage was in WCW by the time the mid-'90s hit and the Undertaker was mostly injured, and frankly was involved in some of the worst and stupidest feuds at the time.

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No. The "stories" about the Kliq are from wrestlers like Mabel, Douglas, The Harris brothers... They are nothing.

Bret wasn't a bully? Maybe, but he was arrogant. He was such an asshole.

And life are fair, and now Bret is crippled.
Bam Bam said it too, Cornette, Vader, Carl Oulette, Candido, Bulldog, Owen, hell, even the Rock in '97 was in danger of getting curb-stomped by them.

He's arrogant, clearly, somewhat delusional as well, but taking joy in his disabilities and injuries is sick and rather pathetic.
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:07 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: What could Bret Hart have done against the Kliq ?

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Originally Posted by Alden Heathcliffe View Post
Wrestlemania 1993 and 1994 headlined by Bret Hart both times got 2.0 and 1.68 buyrates compared to 1995 and 1996 both of which got 1.3 buyrates. The downward trend followed with Summerslam as well, '92, '93, and '94 had 1.5, 1.2 and 1.3 compared to .9 and .58 for Summerslam '95, headlines by Michaels and Ramon and '96 vs Vader.
Only Buyrates are only a small part of it. Bret lost money. By the way, Wrestlemania XII was with Bret as well. Summerslam 1995 wasn't headlined by Michaels, it was headlined by Mabel. Besides, WCW started getting bigger buyrates at that time. And you forget that Wrestlemania IX drew less then VIII. Bret lost business.

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Originally Posted by Alden Heathcliffe View Post
Christmas timed PPVs never drew anything. It's characteristic every year. Badd Blood drew more than the DX PPV, Buried Alive slightly more than It's Time and so on. Hell, Canadian Stampede got higher numbers than Ground Zero, and tag team main events were never big draws. Ground Zero was headlined by Michaels and the Undertaker, correct? Two of your 'top' guys.
But Bret got less then anyone in Christmas! Michaels got better buyrate at Christmas. Canadian Stampede had a great card and a hot feud so it's exceptional. Also, Bad Blood? Who headlined that event? Three letters... That's why Ground Zero drew pretty bad- It was only a prelude.

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I don't know how you could argue he was getting buried. He held the title twice in '97 and was at the focal point of every major feud. Sure, he was feeling he was being phased out because he didn't like the direction they were going in, but buried? Clearly not. The Kliq never had much of an effect on him other than his rivalry with Michaels.
Um, if Bret at his shoot promos at 1997 was THAT angry, then he thinks he was buried. He felt like he was buried. I just say what Bret thinks here.

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Savage was in WCW by the time the mid-'90s hit and the Undertaker was mostly injured, and frankly was involved in some of the worst and stupidest feuds at the time.
About Savage- He was still there at 93-94. About Taker- the fact that he was in such stupid feuds is not his fault. He still got the most pops out there and he was injured only one time- 1994, after the Rumble. The "Injury" in his eye (With the mask) is minor.



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Bam Bam said it too, Cornette, Vader, Carl Oulette, Candido, Bulldog, Owen, hell, even the Rock in '97 was in danger of getting curb-stomped by them.
Most of those people are not stars, so I don't care about them. Owen and Bulldog are Bret's family, and I'm sorry to tell you- they couldn't do well in the Attitude. Owen was a nice midcarder there, but nothing big in the Attitude.

Rock? Well, in 1997, they were right about the fact that Rock shouldn't got the IC title. Hunter got nice heat from the crowd and Rocky was hated.

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Originally Posted by Alden Heathcliffe View Post
He's arrogant, clearly, somewhat delusional as well, but taking joy in his disabilities and injuries is sick and rather pathetic.
I don't care, he sucks. You know, I guess that you're sometimes happy with wrestlers you hate getting injured. I know a guy that was happy when Orton got injured.
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:18 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Default Re: What could Bret Hart have done against the Kliq?

I wonder what the rest of Israel has to say about all of this. Seeing how Israel has wrestling fans and all.
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:29 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: What could Bret Hart have done against the Kliq?

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I wonder what the rest of Israel has to say about all of this. Seeing how Israel has wrestling fans and all.
Well, A LOT of wrestling fans in Israel love Bret. Because his time at the top (1993-1994) was a time where Wrestling was popular in Israel.

Actually, we got a fanatic Bret fan... Man, those arguments with her were funny.

But also, Bret got a lot of haters in Israel. We are few, but we are right!

Bret is Cry! And that's an Israeli joke...
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:46 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Default Re: What could Bret Hart have done against the Kliq?

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Originally Posted by Yosihait View Post
Well, A LOT of wrestling fans in Israel love Bret. Because his time at the top (1993-1994) was a time where Wrestling was popular in Israel.

Actually, we got a fanatic Bret fan... Man, those arguments with her were funny.

But also, Bret got a lot of haters in Israel. We are few, but we are right!

Bret is Cry! And that's an Israeli joke...
Funny you should go on about it all the time, because your WF persona isreali a twat

RE Kliq: Did they call *themeselves* "The Kliq" or was that like a perjorative nickname they got given? I really hope the latter, because a bunch of grown, professional athletes giving themselves the bullshit high-schooly moniker of The Kliq is bleeeegh.

And reading Bret's book, it's clear that he was guilty of just as much politicking as The Kliqsters - if Bret had his way, he'd be fighting Bulldog and Jim the Anvil in double main events every night. But the Kliq crew were unarguably the bigger bastards of politicking, so my sympathy stays with Bret.
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:48 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Default Re: What could Bret Hart have done against the Kliq?

Nothing and like it.
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Old 04-10-2013, 03:47 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Default Re: What could Bret Hart have done against the Kliq?

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Originally Posted by What_A_Maneuver! View Post
I read Bret's book recently and I honestly have no idea how he ever forgave Vince. But then again I'm not in Bret Hart's shoes, I haven't lived his life. I didn't have the relationship that he had with Vince prior Survivor Series 97.
Yeah, Bret had said many times that Vince was like a father to him, and in some ways he was closer to Vince than his own father.

Chew on this. Bret trusted Vince so much, that he actually had Vince negotiate Bret's contract with the WCW for Bret. Imagine that. Imagine trusting your boss so much, that you have him negotiating your contract with the competing company.

This is what I think people are missing about the Montreal deal. I don't think that any of us can understand how personal it felt. It's the same personal sting that Shawn felt when he found out that Bret was being paid much more than him. Shawn's words were basically the same words that Bret used. "I've busted my back for this company, performed a gazillion shows, performed on an injured and broken body, etc. etc."

I think the fact that Bret viewed Vince like a father, was a big part of why he took it so personally. I also think this played into the Bret vs. Shawn dynamic. I think that in some ways, it hurt Bret to the core that he felt that Vince was choosing Shawn over him. It went way beyond the professional I think, though Bret would probably never admit it.

Last edited by LilOlMe : 04-10-2013 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:52 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Default Re: What could Bret Hart have done against the Kliq?

The Kliq didn't run Bret out of WWF. Bret had an awful contract that Vince could no longer afford and Bret was a poor fit going forward into the Attitude era.

Vince wisely convinced him to go to WCW and that used that to make himself into the most hated man the industry has ever seen.

As far as the rivalry between Bret and Michaels goes. Well the AE ended up being better without both of them. They were both instrumental in putting Austin over and deserve their credit for that, but that's really all that was needed from them.

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