If Shawn Michaels went to WCW would he have been used as badly as Bret Hart? - Page 5 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
Reply

Old 04-10-2013, 02:56 AM   #41 (permalink)
Asking SCOTT STEINER for Wrestling Advice
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 388
superdog is in rep purgatory
Default Re: If Shawn Michaels went to WCW would he have been used as badly as Bret Hart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fid View Post
He would of probably been in the same boat as Hall was. Never having a run with the world championship and not ruling the main event. Which going off how big Shawn's ego was in the 90s. By the time late 1998, early 1999 rolled around. He would of probably walked out of the company. I could see him getting pissed at something, not being pushed as the top guy like in the WWF and walking out without a notice. Even if he would of jumped ship, it wouldn't of lasted more than a couple years. I'm sure he by the time 2000 at the latest. You would of saw the Heart Break Kid back in an WWF ring.
They wanted Scott Hall to be the champ in early 98' but he refused. He spoke about it briefly in a shoot he did years ago. In his own words - "they kept trying to put the strap on me". And then he says he talked them out of it.
superdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 04-10-2013, 03:42 AM   #42 (permalink)
Been there, done that, and got the T-shirt, son, and you're just doing reruns.
 
Elipses Corter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Washington D.C.
Posts: 10,344
Elipses Corter has posts worth readingElipses Corter has posts worth readingElipses Corter has posts worth readingElipses Corter has posts worth readingElipses Corter has posts worth readingElipses Corter has posts worth readingElipses Corter has posts worth readingElipses Corter has posts worth readingElipses Corter has posts worth readingElipses Corter has posts worth readingElipses Corter has posts worth reading
Default Re: If Shawn Michaels went to WCW would he have been used as badly as Bret Hart?

Excerpt from a WWE Magazine a few years back:

Quote:
You’re one of the few Superstars from your generation never to set foot in WCW. Was your decision to stick with WWE during The Monday Night War among your greatest contributions to the business?

Yes - maybe not to the business itself, but definitely to this company. I’m very proud of the fact that I stuck around. People can talk about low ratings when I was Champion and stuff like that, but from a company standpoint, my boss can say, “I put you through a lot, but you stuck here. You stuck with me.” I’ve spent more time with Vince McMahon than I have with my own father. Right or wrong, people can make their judgments about him, but there’s a side of him I see that not many people do. And that allows me to be loyal to him.

How difficult was it to resist the temptation of the big WCW money and the imploring of your pals to join them there?

It was very hard. Technically, I was under contract, though, so it would’ve been a huge undertaking. It wouldn’t have been worth it. The one thing that people kept telling me was that I wouldn’t be able to “create” in WCW. I would’ve been handcuffed, and boxed in. In WWE, I was given an unbelievable amount of freedom - probably more than anyone else - to go against the grain, and do things that might’ve been risky. If I had been in WCW, making 10 times more money, but not doing what I wanted in that ring, I would’ve been miserable. To not be able to express my creativity in the ring - that is something I could never put a dollar sign on. A bunch of guys I know went down there. Maybe they had great experiences, maybe they didn’t. But they weren’t nearly as into being creative and expressive in that ring as I was.
I guess in a nutshell, Shawn felt he wouldn't have gotten as much freedom in WCW as he did with Vince. And considering what would happen over the years in WCW, he was right. I doubt he would have been used badly but he wouldn't have been used nearly as good as Vince used him.
Elipses Corter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 01:54 PM   #43 (permalink)
Asking SCOTT STEINER for Wrestling Advice
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 388
superdog is in rep purgatory
Default Re: If Shawn Michaels went to WCW would he have been used as badly as Bret Hart?

It's easy for him to say he didn't want to jump ship looking at how things turned out, but that article also says that he couldn't jump ship bcuz he was still under contract and that's the only definite fact we really get from it.

I'm not saying he wanted to jump ship. Just saying it's easy to say that now, especially with wcw being somewhat of a joke to so many nowadays.

His creative excuse is bullshit IN MY OPINION. Most likely he stayed in WWF cuz he was the champ and was being built up to be the next big thing. Nobody leaves that behind (besides dumbass Christian) and gambles on being great in a company that has guys like Hogan runnin the show. And most importantly, he was under contract so he couldn't just pack up like Hall and Nash did.

These are just MY OPINIONS and everyone is entitled to their own.

Last edited by superdog : 04-10-2013 at 02:40 PM.
superdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 03:17 PM   #44 (permalink)
Little Poppa Pump
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,396
LilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missed
Default Re: If Shawn Michaels went to WCW would he have been used as badly as Bret Hart?

Shawn signed his contract in early 1996. He asked for nobody to be paid higher than him except for the Undertaker. Shawn signed for $750,000 a year.

Later that year, there was a bidding war for Bret, and Bret signed the $1.5 mil per wrestling yr, 20 yr deal. This made Shawn livid. Vince told Shawn that he was under the gun, and WCW was offering Bret mega money (which we would later find out was for $2.8 mil a year, which would have made him the second highest paid man in WCW - presuming that Hulk made more. Bret would have been making about $1.6 mil a year more than Sting, who was the second highest paid man at the time! Insane).

WCW also made all types of other concessions, like getting Hall & Nash to waive their clauses in their contracts that said that new signees wouldn't be paid more than them. And also having Flair & Hogan call and court Bret.

What's funny is that though Shawn was mad that Bret was being paid more, it looks like Vince was paying Bret more all along. Bret mentioned that he was making just under $1 million a yr before that 1996 contract.

Anyway, early '96 was the time that Shawn could have gone to WCW on a clean break, but I think it's clear that they didn't offer him the mega money like they did Bret. Or Shawn would have been making much higher.

What's also interesting is that Bret almost left for the WCW in 1993 (Bret said that he had no intention of really doing so, but knew that Vince would take it seriously enough to rewrite his contract. He had been making $400,000 a yr before that). This is when he was able to gain control over the Hitman name and character from Vince, and have that written into his contract.

As for the 1996 deal, Bret would have earned $8.4 mil from the WCW in three years (working a lot less than he would have in the WWF. 125 days a year in the WCW, compared to 300 days a yr in the WWF). The WWF deal was this:

$1.5 mil a yr for 3 years to wrestle
$500,000 a yr for the next 7 years as one of Vince's senior advisers [so now we're up to $8 mil over 10 yrs]
$250,000 a yr for the next 10 yrs to continue working for the company as an ambassador [so now we're up to $10.5 mil over 20 yrs]

Basically, Bret could have made almost the same amount of money working in the WCW for 3 yrs, as opposed to working for the WWF for 20 yrs (with a heavier schedule). He still chose the WWF. By doing so, it also presumably would have lessened Bret's earning potential down the line, as one would think that he could re-sign with the WCW after those three yrs and make even more money (which he ended up doing once he did go to the WCW. In early '99, he signed a two yr extension with WCW, for the same amount of money they were already paying him. So he was to make $2.5 mil a yr for 5 yrs = $12.5 mil over 5 yrs. Think about that, as compared to Vince's $10.5 mil over 20 yrs).

When Shawn really threatened to go over to the WCW was when Shawn found out about Bret's contract. The way Shawn was to be able to get out of his contract, was because he had had that physical fight with Bret, and had his lawyers threaten to sue for breach of contract, because it was an unsafe work environment. This would have provided the out for Shawn to go to the WCW. Shawn told Vince that he was miserable, and that Bret shouldn't be making more than he was. He asked to be released from his contract (with the fact that he could sue to be let out, in his back pocket).

Vince told him that he'd be completely miserable in the WCW, and that they wouldn't know what to do with Shawn. Shawn kept making it a point that he was really pissed about Bret's contract, and felt insulted by it. He kept asking Vince for more money. This is when Vince told Shawn not to worry about Bret's contract; that he would be ending it soon.

Again, I wonder, if the fact that Bret's money was becoming a talking point for Vince's other major talent(s), was a concern for Vince. I really do think this played a part in Vince wanting to end Bret's contract. You know, not wanting to have to start paying the others the same (or having them threaten to create misery because they were not getting paid the same).

On a side note, it sounds like Shawn was pretty serious about this, or at least, wanted to create the impression of seriousness, because he had his dad in on this meeting. Funnily enough, this also happened to be the time when Vince exposed Shawn's drug problem. Vince was like "I think you have a drug addiction problem", and Shawn's dad was taken aback, because he had no clue that Shawn had a drug addiction problem at the time.

Knowing Vince, this was probably a way to try to get Shawn to shut up and stop pestering, though Shawn read it as genuine, fatherly, concern from Vince.


Edited to add: When Bret was to sign that 20 year deal, Vince tried slimy maneuvers like sending over the wrong contract, thinking Bret would somehow be duped into signing it. Bret said that that was the third time this had happened with Vince and contracts. What stuck out to me is that Bret said that he could only reach Linda. This reminds me of the same thing Ultimate Warrior said, but in reverse. He signed a contract with Linda, who was suddenly in charge at the time. Then Vince later would claim he had no knowledge of the contract, as if Linda was just off doing her own thing. This seems to be a common maneuver of the McMahons. They must think that their wrestlers are complete dunces. Well, I guess some of them are.

Last edited by LilOlMe : 04-10-2013 at 06:07 PM.
LilOlMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 10:02 PM   #45 (permalink)
Asking SCOTT STEINER for Wrestling Advice
 
markdeez33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 289
markdeez33 markdeez33
Default Re: If Shawn Michaels went to WCW would he have been used as badly as Bret Hart?

Shawn Michaels wrestled in the AWA under the name of Shawn Michaels.... Why would he not be Shawn Michaels if he bolted to WCW? Surely if it was a name he used prior to being signed with the WWF, he could fight Vince for the right to the name, and would retain it.
markdeez33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 10:18 PM   #46 (permalink)
Little Poppa Pump
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,396
LilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missed
Default Re: If Shawn Michaels went to WCW would he have been used as badly as Bret Hart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by markdeez33 View Post
Shawn Michaels wrestled in the AWA under the name of Shawn Michaels.... Why would he not be Shawn Michaels if he bolted to WCW? Surely if it was a name he used prior to being signed with the WWF, he could fight Vince for the right to the name, and would retain it.
I think that it's because when these guys sign, they sign away their rights and give Vince full control.

Vince is able to be listed as the executive director of John Cena movies, simply because he "owns" John's name.

The Shawn Michaels situation would probably be similiar to Ultimate Warrior's situation. Warrior totally created that character, and was actually performing that same character as the Dingo Warrior. This is why Warrior was able to win that legal argument, but it took him five years in court to do so. Also, he went to extreme lengths, like legally changing his name to Warrior, and giving his kids that last name.

Basically, unless you really want to go all out like that, you're probably f'ed legally. You probably sign your life away to Vince, even if you created the character, persona, and name beforehand.

I believe Bret was the first one to regain full control, and that was only because Bret was threatening to go to the WCW. Roddy Piper advised Bret that "whatever you do, get the rights to your own name and character." It can be more important than money in some ways.

In Shawn's state, he probably wasn't even thinking about stuff like this.

I wonder if he could have gone by "Shawn Michael", lol.
LilOlMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2013, 01:54 PM   #47 (permalink)
Challenging SCOTT STEINER's authority
 
Gunner14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,708
Gunner14 needs to make some friendsGunner14 needs to make some friendsGunner14 needs to make some friendsGunner14 needs to make some friendsGunner14 needs to make some friendsGunner14 needs to make some friendsGunner14 needs to make some friendsGunner14 needs to make some friendsGunner14 needs to make some friends
Default Re: If Shawn Michaels went to WCW would he have been used as badly as Bret Hart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilOlMe View Post
I think that it's because when these guys sign, they sign away their rights and give Vince full control.

Vince is able to be listed as the executive director of John Cena movies, simply because he "owns" John's name.

The Shawn Michaels situation would probably be similiar to Ultimate Warrior's situation. Warrior totally created that character, and was actually performing that same character as the Dingo Warrior. This is why Warrior was able to win that legal argument, but it took him five years in court to do so. Also, he went to extreme lengths, like legally changing his name to Warrior, and giving his kids that last name.

Basically, unless you really want to go all out like that, you're probably f'ed legally. You probably sign your life away to Vince, even if you created the character, persona, and name beforehand.

I believe Bret was the first one to regain full control, and that was only because Bret was threatening to go to the WCW. Roddy Piper advised Bret that "whatever you do, get the rights to your own name and character." It can be more important than money in some ways.

In Shawn's state, he probably wasn't even thinking about stuff like this.

I wonder if he could have gone by "Shawn Michael", lol.
I think Vince is the executive director of john Cenas films because John Cena only stars in WWE films which is owned by vince Mcmahon.
__________________
Wrestlemania 30 was awesome

3 Axxess events
Hogan VIP
Flair VIP
Wrestlecon session 1
Hall Of Fame Section 113 Row 11 Seat 1
Wrestlemania Section 140 Row 20 Seat 14.
Monday Night Raw Section 123 Row 16 seat 6
Gunner14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2013, 02:33 PM   #48 (permalink)
Little Poppa Pump
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,396
LilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missedLilOlMe probably won't be missed
Default Re: If Shawn Michaels went to WCW would he have been used as badly as Bret Hart?

Oh, I don't know much about Cena's movie career. I was going by what Cena said in his Howard Stern interview in 2006. He said that Vince essentially owns his name, and will always get a piece of whatever he does because of that.
LilOlMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2013, 05:17 PM   #49 (permalink)
Hippies wanna save the Earth, but all they do is smell bad and smoke pot.
 
Stone Cold Steve Austin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: South Park
Posts: 11,518
Stone Cold Steve Austin is getting a pushStone Cold Steve Austin is getting a pushStone Cold Steve Austin is getting a pushStone Cold Steve Austin is getting a pushStone Cold Steve Austin is getting a pushStone Cold Steve Austin is getting a pushStone Cold Steve Austin is getting a pushStone Cold Steve Austin is getting a pushStone Cold Steve Austin is getting a pushStone Cold Steve Austin is getting a pushStone Cold Steve Austin is getting a push
Default Re: If Shawn Michaels went to WCW would he have been used as badly as Bret Hart?

Hall and Nash were his buddies, which means good booking for HBK. But not for the World Title, cuz that belongs to Hogan.
Stone Cold Steve Austin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2013, 06:21 PM   #50 (permalink)
Fired by SCOTT STEINER
 
Combat Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,000
Combat Analyst Combat Analyst Combat Analyst Combat Analyst Combat Analyst Combat Analyst Combat Analyst Combat Analyst
Default Re: If Shawn Michaels went to WCW would he have been used as badly as Bret Hart?

WCW would probably milk out the HBK-Bret feud.
__________________
http://24.media.tumblr.com/c07d02b42a25747222354c0ff8a16a46/tumblr_mn2hipLFC11rgam01o1_r1_500.png


Black Is Beautiful


Spoiler for DrIllmatic:
Combat Analyst is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums
Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2
Powered by vBulletin Copyright 2000-2009 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios