If Shawn Michaels went to WCW would he have been used as badly as Bret Hart? - Page 4 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 04-09-2013, 05:19 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: If Shawn Michaels went to WCW would he have been used as badly as Bret Hart?

Pretty much every superstar has had offers from the other company at some point. Glad HBK never went. He wouldn't have had as much control over his own character in WCW, like he had in the WWF (see Bret Hart in WCW). He absolutely would have been in the nWo at some point with Hall & Nash, but with Hogan and others in the stable, it would have been too much. Plus, I don't think he would have been able to use his "Heartbreak Kid" name. He made the right choice.
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Old 04-09-2013, 06:12 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: If Shawn Michaels went to WCW would he have been used as badly as Bret Hart?

For the record, WCW did offer HBK a contract in 1996, and he considered it, but Vince told him that WCW wouldn't know what to do with him. Same thing he told Bret.

Also, Bret clearly got offered an insanely higher contract than Shawn, which is why Shawn only resigned with the WWF for $750,000, whereas Bret got that 30 year, $1.5 mil a year deal.

I see comments about how Bret must not have had a lot of value since Vince let him go, but people like to have amnesia and forget the intense bidding war over him in the first place. People who did not live through that era look back and pretend that Bret and Shawn were on the same level, when clearly, they were not. At least not monetarily or businesswise, from the WCW & WWF's point of view.

To answer the question, yes, WCW would have used him badly. Shawn has a lot of charisma, so he would have been over anyway, but he would not have been nearly as riveting as he was in the WWF. Nor would his ring skills be used properly. I am very biased against the WCW product though, because at the time I could not for the life of me understand why people were so into it. I really felt it was horrible, and watching it back, it's even worse than I originally thought.

Almost every intriguing character who went over there, became immensely less intriguing. For all of Vince's faults, there at least seemed to be a level of logic that went into the way he presented things in the 90s.
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Old 04-09-2013, 06:19 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: If Shawn Michaels went to WCW would he have been used as badly as Bret Hart?

When Bret signed that 20 year contract with the WWF in late 1996 to return, he became the highest paid wrestler in WWF history. Bret was mkaing $1.5 million per year, while HBK & Taker were both making $750,000 per year. 10 months or so into Bret's new contract, Vince breached it. He claimed he couldn't afford the contract, but many think that is BS because literally just 6 months later at WM 14, Vince paid Mike Tyson $8.5 million to appear at WM 14. So, it's not that HBK & Taker weren't at Bret's level performance wise, but Bret was a free agent at that time and Vince was urged by everyone around him to keep Bret, which Vince has gone on record to say was a huge mistake. He breached Bret's contract because Vince felt the money he was paying Bret could be better spent elsewhere, and he was right.
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Old 04-09-2013, 06:29 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: If Shawn Michaels went to WCW would he have been used as badly as Bret Hart?

Vince also doesn't like to cede control. Bret had an amazing deal, aside from the financial stuff. People forget that Bret also retained complete ownership of the Hitman name and character. That's why he was able to wrestle in the WCW in the pink tight uniform, and go by Bret "the Hitman" Hart.

Bret has speculated that Vince always gets regretful after he feels like he's ceded too much ground to people. Think about it. Shawn clearly knew about Bret's contract, and was pestering Vince. What happens if future stars start trying to negotiate contracts like that?

I believe that this was in large part why he got rid of the Ultimate Warrior. I think that he was one of the first guys to start demanding large payouts for PPV events. Vince signed the contract, and then reneged. This was later proven when Warrior won his lawsuit against him.

It's not that Vince didn't still feel that Warrior was a great financial asset and draw. He brought him back twice, so clearly he still felt he held a lot of value. He just hated ceding that type of control.

I think the thing that probably bothered Vince the most was the length of the Bret deal. Although he was to make less than $1.5 mil a year after he stopped wrestling, he still was set to gain a huge amount, over a looooooong period of time. That's a long time to be locked in.

I've often wondered if Bret's heel turn was an effort to try to destroy Bret, because Vince always knew that he would renege on the contract. I suspect yes. When you turn someone who was the biggest face of the country, into a huge America basher (and Vince knows how much this hits to the core...some of his previous superheros [Hulk, Lex, etc.] were totally sold on patriotism...and many rivalries were set based on the face of the company facing American enemies). I think that he was trying to drive down Bret's value, because he didn't want him to be that over in the WCW.


And that's what we also have to consider when talking about Shawn going to WCW. Would Vince make a concerted effort to make him less attractive? If so, that plays a part in how effective he'd be in the WCW. Though Shawn was always more compelling as a heel anyway, so maybe in some ways it wouldn't have had much of an effect. Vince would know that, though, and therefore would know that any devaluing would have to be done in another way.

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Old 04-09-2013, 06:59 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: If Shawn Michaels went to WCW would he have been used as badly as Bret Hart?

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Originally Posted by LilOlMe View Post
Vince also doesn't like to cede control. Bret had an amazing deal, aside from the financial stuff. People forget that Bret also retained complete ownership of the Hitman name and character. That's why he was able to wrestle in the WCW in the pink tight uniform, and go by Bret "the Hitman" Hart.

Bret has speculated that Vince always gets regretful after he feels like he's ceded too much ground to people. Think about it. Shawn clearly knew about Bret's contract, and was pestering Vince. What happens if future stars start trying to negotiate contracts like that?

I believe that this was in large part why he got rid of the Ultimate Warrior. I think that he was one of the first guys to start demanding large payouts for PPV events. Vince signed the contract, and then reneged. This was later proven when Warrior won his lawsuit against him.

It's not that Vince didn't still feel that Warrior was a great financial asset and draw. He brought him back twice, so clearly he still felt he held a lot of value. He just hated ceding that type of control.

I think the thing that probably bothered Vince the most was the length of the Bret deal. Although he was to make less than $1.5 mil a year after he stopped wrestling, he still was set to gain a huge amount, over a looooooong period of time. That's a long time to be locked in.

I've often wondered if Bret's heel turn was an effort to try to destroy Bret, because Vince always knew that he would renege on the contract. I suspect yes. When you turn someone who was the biggest face of the country, into a huge America basher (and Vince knows how much this hits to the core...some of his previous superheros [Hulk, Lex, etc.] were totally sold on patriotism...and many rivalries were set based on the face of the company facing American enemies). I think that he was trying to drive down Bret's value, because he didn't want him to be that over in the WCW.


And that's what we also have to consider when talking about Shawn going to WCW. Would Vince make a concerted effort to make him less attractive? If so, that plays a part in how effective he'd be in the WCW. Though Shawn was always more compelling as a heel anyway, so maybe in some ways it wouldn't have had much of an effect. Vince would know that, though, and therefore would know that any devaluing would have to be done in another way.
You can't overlook any of that but to me the big picture is that in early 96 Bret Hart looked like he was the future of pro wrestling. The future big draw. In mid 97 Vince realized that Bret Hart was overdue and done.

That's the explanation as to why Vince signed him to a huge contract and then did everything he could to boot him out of the WWF.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:00 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: If Shawn Michaels went to WCW would he have been used as badly as Bret Hart?

He would of probably been in the same boat as Hall was. Never having a run with the world championship and not ruling the main event. Which going off how big Shawn's ego was in the 90s. By the time late 1998, early 1999 rolled around. He would of probably walked out of the company. I could see him getting pissed at something, not being pushed as the top guy like in the WWF and walking out without a notice. Even if he would of jumped ship, it wouldn't of lasted more than a couple years. I'm sure he by the time 2000 at the latest. You would of saw the Heart Break Kid back in an WWF ring.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:12 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: If Shawn Michaels went to WCW would he have been used as badly as Bret Hart?

Wow, we're talking Hulk Hogan vs Shawn Michaels politics here. If you look at how things played out between Nash and Hogan, that should give some indication. I think Shawn would have been pushed to the moon, but not used as effectively.

But, one thing to consider is that Shawn Michaels' title run in 1996 was nowhere near as appealing as the nWo was on the other channel and people tuned in to watch WCW more when Shawn was the centerpiece of the WWF. It wasn't until Austin was the alternative to the nWo that people cared to watch the WWF more.

So, Shawn might have added more fuel to all of the egos and overstacked roster in WCW and sabotaged them just as well as anything they ever did.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:20 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: If Shawn Michaels went to WCW would he have been used as badly as Bret Hart?

I won't and can't blame Vince in the Warrior situation. Warrior once held out minutes before a SummerSlam main event for $250,000. If there's anything that you can't do in the wrestling business, it's that. That's a big time no-no. And Vince STILL brought him back. Then in '96, Warrior started to no show a number of appearances. They gave him quite a few chances. Can't blame Vince for Warrior not working out in the end.

As for HBK in WCW, I think he would have at some point gotten a couple WCW World title runs. Not right away or anything like that, but eventually. But even still, he was better fit for the WWF. His unstable, live-interview style (Sunny Days, DX stuff, etc) and antics would have NEVER been allowed on WCW TV on TNT or TBS, and thus might have hurt his character and entertainment value. In the WWF, he could get away with that stuff and had alittle bit more wiggle room for that stuff.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:23 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: If Shawn Michaels went to WCW would he have been used as badly as Bret Hart?

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You can't overlook any of that but to me the big picture is that in early 96 Bret Hart looked like he was the future of pro wrestling. The future big draw. In mid 97 Vince realized that Bret Hart was overdue and done.

That's the explanation as to why Vince signed him to a huge contract and then did everything he could to boot him out of the WWF.
I'm not sure about that, I think it was more of Vince was losing all his Main Eventers to WCW. He had what Taker, Hart and HBK? Austin isn't there yet. Hunter was being buried at the time. Sid had softball season every year. Vader was a jobber. He didn't have much as his roster was REALLY weak.

I'm not saying HBK was smarter than Bret, but I think he wanted more control of his character. At WCW he wouldn't have had that and Bret in WCW pretty much proved that.
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Old 04-10-2013, 01:15 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: If Shawn Michaels went to WCW would he have been used as badly as Bret Hart?

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Originally Posted by Crazy_Mo_Fo View Post
So loyal, Shawn threatened to leave for WCW after getting into a catfight with Bret.
^^^^^^^
EXACTLY LOL

Shawn would have done pretty good down there. Not to mention the amount of guys he would work with to make him have even greater matches.

HBK against guys like Eddie, Flair, Benoit, Jericho, and so on. Vince did not want that happening.

Plus, who would HHH learn to politic from and gain experience as a main event star from lol

We saw the politics with Hogan and Shawn in the wwf. It would have been a doozy in wcw back then.

No way is HBK jumping ship without any guarantees of being pushed properly especially with his buddies in the boss' ears. They were the Kliq for a reason.

Last edited by promoter2003 : 04-10-2013 at 01:18 AM.
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