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post #51 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 09:47 AM
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Re: Yokozuna was great

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Originally Posted by Yosihait View Post
Yeah, but I didn't watch back then so I can judge Yoko by REAL standards.
wut?

Tell me more about how you watched shit years later on tapes or the internet & how that makes it more "real."

Last edited by Coffey; 03-14-2013 at 09:50 AM.
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post #52 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 09:49 AM
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Re: Yokozuna was great

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Originally Posted by Yosihait View Post
Yeah, but I didn't watch back then so I can judge Yoko by REAL standards.
And what are these 'real standards' only available to people who didn't see him working in the context of his time period?
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post #53 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 10:32 AM
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Re: Yokozuna was great

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Originally Posted by RyanPelley View Post
The funny part about this is that Bob Holly stated in a shoot that Yokozuna put Bret over and passed Bret the torch... One of the most laughably idiotic things I've ever heard another person say.
In my post which garnered this reply, I didn't say that Yokozuna GOT Bret Hart over, I said defeating the Giant Yokozuna helped Bret get over as a WORLD CHAMPION. Defeating the huge Yokozuna helped cement Bret as a legitimate world champion. I never once insinuated that Yokozuna was the one to get Bret Hart over, I merely suggest my own opinion that Hart defeating such a huge foe who was the way Yokozuna was helped him get massively over as a champion, something which was completely ignored and thus you had the post contradicting something I never actually said.

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Originally Posted by Yosihait View Post

He had heat from a small crowd.

Which is to say- He sucked.

Yeah, but I didn't watch back then so I can judge Yoko by REAL standards.
How on Earth can you judge by REAL standards, if you didn't even see it at the time? Have you at least watched the events from that era?

Also, hugely hypocritical for saying people are wrong as they were kids at that time, when saying you're right even though were also a kid at that time.
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post #54 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 10:40 AM
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Re: Yokozuna was great

I think what killed a lot of Yoko's heat was the ending to WM 9 since Hogan just HAD to be champion.

From the beginning Yosihait has basically said that Yoko sucks and it's his fault he never drew and blah blah blah. Yoko was a big guy but he could legit wrestle for his size. He could do a huge leg drop and make it look like it hurt.

WWF as a whole was turning into a funk. The tail end of 1993 to 1996 were really bad times for WWF in general.

The Body Slam challenge was gold in that it put Luger over big time. It's not Yoko's fault Luger floundered in his push and couldn't draw a dime.

Was Yoko great? I think he was with what he did. He was a good champ because up until Wrestlemania 9, if I could remember this right, he was undefeated until Hogan beat him. Wrestlemania 10 made Bret look like a million bucks so Yoko did his work.
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post #55 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 10:56 AM
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Re: Yokozuna was great

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Originally Posted by Coffey View Post
wut?

Tell me more about how you watched shit years later on tapes or the internet & how that makes it more "real."
Oh, here we go again. "Fuck You! You didn't watch then so we right!!!!!!".

I'm not emotionally linked to Yoko so I can judge him.

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Originally Posted by GothicBohemian View Post
And what are these 'real standards' only available to people who didn't see him working in the context of his time period?
Ring skills? Charisma? Star Power? Draw Power?

His time period sucked. The WWF weren't fit with the 1990s. Vince thought it was still the 80s, hence Yoko. But he failed to realise that Yoko never had any connection whatsoever to the 90s.

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Originally Posted by Issues_Sunshyne View Post
In my post which garnered this reply, I didn't say that Yokozuna GOT Bret Hart over, I said defeating the Giant Yokozuna helped Bret get over as a WORLD CHAMPION. Defeating the huge Yokozuna helped cement Bret as a legitimate world champion. I never once insinuated that Yokozuna was the one to get Bret Hart over, I merely suggest my own opinion that Hart defeating such a huge foe who was the way Yokozuna was helped him get massively over as a champion, something which was completely ignored and thus you had the post contradicting something I never actually said.

How on Earth can you judge by REAL standards, if you didn't even see it at the time? Have you at least watched the events from that era?

Also, hugely hypocritical for saying people are wrong as they were kids at that time, when saying you're right even though were also a kid at that time.
Ummm... Yeah, I watched it! And guess what?

Yoko extremely sucked ass.

I was only born back then, but guess what? I DIDN'T WATCH IT BACK THEN, AS A CHILD. Then I don't put emotions into it. I see that a lot.

People are saying all kinds of stuff but when it comes to their childhood heroes it's "Yeah, but he was different".

Yoko wasn't different then Honky Tonk Man or Miz. Tell me the good things about him, and I'll show you you're wrong. Childhood memories turn him into more then what he was.

By the way- No, Bret was over the SAME before defeating Yoko.

Tell me- How does he great?

Compare him to other champions.

He is below them in skills, charisma, star power, draw power, etc.

The only thing he had was his size, and you know what? If he was lighter, then he would've never been a main eventer. Not even an uppercarder. If you're a star then you could be a success no matter what, but guess what? Yoko, without his size, had nothing.

He was a giant mistake.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sids_chickenleg View Post
WWF as a whole was turning into a funk. The tail end of 1993 to 1996 were really bad times for WWF in general.

The Body Slam challenge was gold in that it put Luger over big time. It's not Yoko's fault Luger floundered in his push and couldn't draw a dime.

Was Yoko great? I think he was with what he did. He was a good champ because up until Wrestlemania 9, if I could remember this right, he was undefeated until Hogan beat him. Wrestlemania 10 made Bret look like a million bucks so Yoko did his work.
COME ON! Yoko WAS A PART of the reasons why the WWF went down back then. HE WAS THAT STUPID PRODUCT! HE WAS AN 80S CHARACTER IN THE 90S!

The Bodyslam challenge got Luger over in a small crowd. No one cared about him as a patriot, people thought he sucked ass.

He was "Undefeated" because he defeated Jobbers. Then he lost to the whole world only by DQes and count outs and therefore never lost his title. Bret could've beaten ANYBODY at that Wrestlelmania looking good. After Wrestlemania, no one cared about Yoko.

Bret's victory over Yoko is so minor in his career.

Last edited by Yosihait; 03-14-2013 at 11:02 AM.
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post #56 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 11:05 AM
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Re: Yokozuna was great

I'm genuinely beginning to think that you have a personal vendetta against Yokozuna.

Firstly when you said others were too young to have an opinion yet yours was right even though you were younger made me wonder if it was worth discussing it with you, then secondly when you said he "sucked ass" makes me realise it really isn't worth arguing with you about it. I've genuinely never known anyone with a legitimate argument using those words in said disagreement and come off as someone who really understood.

If you can't get it into your head that my opinion is that I liked Yokozuna and enjoyed his work, then I have no idea how to interact with you on the subject.
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post #57 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 11:22 AM
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Re: Yokozuna was great

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Originally Posted by Issues_Sunshyne View Post
I'm genuinely beginning to think that you have a personal vendetta against Yokozuna.

Firstly when you said others were too young to have an opinion yet yours was right even though you were younger made me wonder if it was worth discussing it with you, then secondly when you said he "sucked ass" makes me realise it really isn't worth arguing with you about it. I've genuinely never known anyone with a legitimate argument using those words in said disagreement and come off as someone who really understood.

If you can't get it into your head that my opinion is that I liked Yokozuna and enjoyed his work, then I have no idea how to interact with you on the subject.
But was he GREAT?

Can you compare him to other champions?

And about the age thing- I meant that the people here were young when they WATCHED it. I, on the other hand, had no emotional connection to Yoko.

I don't HATE Rodney Anoai, I hate Yokozuna. Just like I hate Tatanka. Or Bation Booger. Or the Ringmaster.

My problems with you is that you've said that "I can see why they thought a 500lb wrestler with an anti-American gimmick could get over and then pushed him". And THAT'S wrong IMO.

The culture just wasn't in the mood for Yoko in 1993 because no one cared.

Your basic point- That he should've been a champion- is wrong.
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post #58 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 11:26 AM
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Re: Yokozuna was great

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Originally Posted by Issues_Sunshyne View Post
I'm genuinely beginning to think that you have a personal vendetta against Yokozuna.
He's completely talking out of his ass & doesn't know shit. All his talk about "I'm not emotionally linked to him" is just a bullshit way of admitting he doesn't know shit about Yokozuna OR pro-wrestling. Like, he was born after Yoko's title reign. How does his opinion matter on the subject? For that matter, why's he in the Classic Wrestling section at all? He was what, four years old when the Monday Night Wars were going on? Fuck outta here with that shit. Just put him on ignore.
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post #59 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 11:35 AM
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Re: Yokozuna was great

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Originally Posted by Coffey View Post
He's completely talking out of his ass & doesn't know shit. All his talk about "I'm not emotionally linked to him" is just a bullshit way of admitting he doesn't know shit about Yokozuna OR pro-wrestling. Like, he was born after Yoko's title reign. How does his opinion matter on the subject? For that matter, why's he in the Classic Wrestling section at all? He was what, four years old when the Monday Night Wars were going on? Fuck outta here with that shit. Just put him on ignore.
Oh, did the big meany genius hurt you in the nuts for saying FACTS? Oh... Cry to mommy!

That's what I love about you, "Old resposible" fans. When you have nothing to say, when you feel that your nuts hurt because you're WRONG, you go like...

"BOOOOOO! WE ROCK! YOU'VE NEVER BEEN THERE, SO YOU'RE WRONGGGGGGGGGG! WE GREAT!!!!!!".

When you'll get another excuses except for "We're old, you're not, suck it and listen only to us"?

When you'll learn FACTS?

You're clearly talking because your nanny stopped the feeding time because you didn't agree to eat your beans.

FUCK AGEISM. If you REALLY want to hear yourself without arguing, you can put here a sign: Only fans from 1990 and on are allowed! Or you can go to Iran. They love it.
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post #60 of 140 (permalink) Old 03-14-2013, 11:49 AM
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Re: Yokozuna was great

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Originally Posted by Yosihait View Post
But was he GREAT?

Can you compare him to other champions?

And about the age thing- I meant that the people here were young when they WATCHED it. I, on the other hand, had no emotional connection to Yoko.

I don't HATE Rodney Anoai, I hate Yokozuna. Just like I hate Tatanka. Or Bation Booger. Or the Ringmaster.

My problems with you is that you've said that "I can see why they thought a 500lb wrestler with an anti-American gimmick could get over and then pushed him". And THAT'S wrong IMO.

The culture just wasn't in the mood for Yoko in 1993 because no one cared.

Your basic point- That he should've been a champion- is wrong.
I can't help but bite at that one thing over and over, I respect you are saying that as you weren't there at the time you can have a completely untethered opinion of the character of Yokozuna, which is fine and as an opinion I can't say I have a problem with it as it is just that: Your opinion.

However, given the fact I initially gave my opinion and you jumped all over and have consistently done so throughout the thread, I feel like I need to now stamp all over yours and tell you how you are wrong.

It is of your opinion that the 500lb Anti-American is a bad idea 20 years after the fact, which as incredible as it sounds I'm sure many would agree, but let's imagine we're Vince McMahon and his staff back in 1993/4... The big man mentality isn't watered down yet even after the steroid scandal, and Vince will continue to take a liking to the guys with "freak" bodies at the time, and he has been quoted as saying how he looked at Diesel who was clean for steroids at the time and drooled all over him and wanted him with the belt for the reason he was so huge, which I have to think is the same reason they went with Yokozuna. They had this massively large man who was willing and able to play a huge heel character that scared the children at a time when WWF was catered, perhaps even more so than today, towards children with their cartoonish outlook and outlandish character. Yokozuna fit perfectly in that mould and at that time. 2 decades later, perhaps not, perhaps it's the same as Mabel being King of The Ring or Great Khali being champion but AT THAT TIME they put all of their eggs in the one basket and ran with it and I completely agree with why they did and understand why it was a good idea.

You talk about us as kids being invested in it at that time and being emotionally attached, how is that wrong? How is that a bad thing? If anything, in saying that, you are completely enforcing the idea that Yokozuna was over and credible as a champion as he connected with all of us as fans. How is that wrong?

Comparing him to other champions is again another point that needs to be put into context. He isn't The Rock, nor Hulk Hogan, but at that time they had so few choices that he seemed like a completely viable candidate. If you take out the guys such as HBK/Scott Hall/Curt Hennig and put them in the main event, then where does that leave WWF on a whole at the time? They have a decent world champion yet have the rest of the card filled with crap?

If anything, you have honestly completely shown your lack of knowledge in this thread with a handful of remakrs we've all let slide, such as "Yoko was only over with Small crowds." Again, how is that a bad thing? WWF almost went into hiding at this time and went smaller, and reverted back to almost the territorial way of thinking. They were too afraid to push in a new untested direction which they were forced to do many years later, and couldn't go back to what they once where as they just didn't have the star power, so they did the best with what they had and one of those things was creating the Yokozuna character and pushing him to the title. It may be a bleak period sandwiched between the two most successful eras in wrestling, but that doesn't make it bad nor it's champions unworthy.

If you look at drawing power as a reason why a wrestler isn't great then I think you need to take a step back and find something else to enjoy. It's the same as ratings today, why react and judge something because of the views of other people? Are you a sheep?

Now, in terms of his wrestling ability, he isn't Bret Hart or Kurt Angle but as a big guy who was there to be a big guy, do strong man moves, look menacing and terrifying for the target audience then he did that very well, and he was also able to sell and wasn't afraid to look weak in certain feuds. This isn't real. He was a credible champion as he was written that way, and a brooding silent destructful monster he was perfect. Should he have been champion? At the time, and given the circumstance, ABSOLUTELY. He was foil and catalyst to a lot of feuds, and in doing so added a 500lb notch onto the belt of Bret Harts championship belt.

Someone asked earlier why he was an awesome heel, and I think it was because he connected with the fans he was supposed to connect to in a heelish manner. Maybe because I was only a kid at the time to I look super fondly at the era, but I am capable of knowing what is shit and what isn't now and I still look at Yoko as champion as a good idea well executed to contradict the idea of how shitty it was the put the KOTR on Mabel or to push King Kong Bundy at that time, 10 years at least after his peak.

I've gave my two pence worth, and I know you're going to reply and give me yours, but the truth is it's a matter of opinions and you have followed this thread for weeks giving yours and neglecting everyone else, something that as an honest wrestling fan who takes his time to enjoy the product knows you have to keep an open mind about.

That's me done now. Cheers.
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