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Old 03-15-2013, 06:11 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Default Re: Yokozuna was great

Yoko had presence and was actually over.
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Old 03-15-2013, 06:15 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Default Re: Yokozuna was great

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosihait View Post


THANK YOU!
How old were ALL of you when he was in his "Peak years"?
How old were you again when Yokozuna was WWF Champ?

Go look back into my posts and point to me where I said Yokozuna was my favorite wrestler. I guarantee you won't find it. What I am going off of was how intimidating and scary he was AT THAT TIME. Like I've stated before, you can't judge him based off "real standards" because you're comparing him to 20 years of stuff since then. You wanted to put the title on Savage. Ok, I get it, but Savage wasn't there mentally then so you can't put the title on him (it's the reason why he was doing a lot of commentating back then). Something you've never even considered.

Vince wanted to put the title, eventually, on Bret. He needed a guy to be a monster heel for him to win it off of. Guess who that is? You can't put it on Taker, he's already over huge as a face. You make Bret look legit big (I'm more than willing to bet that Bret was supposed to win the title at Wrestlemania 9 had Hogan not shown up only for him to lose it 4 months later).

And yes, Vince has lost money at times but he has a whole crap ton more than he ever had in the 90's. So again, if you're this monster genius, why aren't you competing with Vince?
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:00 PM   #103 (permalink)
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Default Re: Yokozuna was great

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosihait View Post
He had a presence?! So WHY DID HE HAD FUJI AND CORNETTE CARRYING HIS BACK?!
Presence is how you carry yourself in the ring, not how good you are at talking. It's how seriously you can be taken as threat just looking at the person. Yoko for his time certainly had that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosihait View Post
He was scary? OOOOOOH, you're scared of a guy that loses all the time and most of the time sucking air and on his back.
Yoko until WM 9 was booked incredibly strongly. He was undefeated, won the RR and won the main event at wrestlemania. If it weren't for your boy Hulk Hogan not letting go of the spotlight when it wasn't his time Yoko would have held the belt until at least the first King of the Ring.

And Yoko was a scary monster for his time, you are judging with 20 years of wrestling history and hindsight going through the Attitude Era and now a time where people get more over on their real life personalities. Yoko was still in the cartoon era, you seem to forget this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosihait View Post
Yoko was "Quick for his size" considering that a guy in "his size" was supposed to be dead.

Mae Young is pretty good for an 80 year old woman.

David Otunga is REALLY good for a lawyer that drinks coffee and married to a celebrity.

Ryback is very good for a Ryback.

Yoko was over just as anyone else. It's so easy to say those stuff looking at him as a child
A comment full of straw man arguments. How fitting considering you have no clue what you are talking about. Funny how you can't come up with an argument suggesting that Yoko wasn't quick for a man around the 500 pound mark and instead resort to stupid comparisons (Mae Young being the of the lot). I bet you don't even know what a strawman argument is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosihait View Post
He had MORE PRESENCE THEN HULK HOGAN?! THE GUY THAT WAS CELEBRITY?!
Again learn what presence means...it doesn't mean how big of a name you are. It's about how u carry yourself in the ring. Whilst it's a stretch to say he has bigger presence than Hogan it is undeniable that he had presence, otherwise he would have not been booked the way he had. That simple.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosihait View Post
HE HAD CHARISMA?! So tell me, why after he lost his managers, he did NOTHING at all? If he was that charismatic, he would've been a success even after it.
Charisma doesn't equal promo skills . Another simple mistake. Charisma by definition is a special personal quality or power of an individual making him capable of influencing or inspiring large numbers of people. Yoko was biggest heel the WWE had in 1993 and 1994. That is a pure fact. Name me one other talent that was a bigger heel than him during that time. HBK? Still in the IC title scene. Ric Flair? Left the company in Jan 1993. Undertaker? Became a face. Mr Perfect? Was a part time performer at best. Macho? Commentary most of the time. Diesel? Didn't establish himself at the earliest till late 94. Ted Dibiase? Was in the tag team division. I could go on. You can't hide from the facts, Yoko was the biggest drawing heel in that period and people came to see him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosihait View Post
I KNOW that you being a child back then improves him.

When you see him, you can't judge him objectively. None of you can.


But truth is- He wasn't a star, he wasn't GREAT (And that's what this thread is all about). If he WAS a star, if he COULD'VE generated heat, if he WAS that good, he wouldn't have fallen to jobberland after his storyline was ended.
You can't judge him objectively either. You are judging him using 2013 wrestling critique on a wrestler who's prime is in 1993-1994. None of your arguments have made any sense nor have they actually been factually right. You don't even know what presence or charisma means when it comes to wrestling. You think charisma = promo skills when you don't need to have mic skills to be charismatic. You would agree the Undertaker has charisma right? There was a time he didn't say a single word yet people were in awe and drawn to him. THAT is an example of what charisma is. Sting? Same thing during 1997 WCW. He didn't say a word yet other than Hogan was WCW's biggest draw in their hottest period.

Presence is not how big your name is or again..how good your promo skills. You need to learn what you are talking about before you open your mouth. Then maybe your opinion would be taken seriously. It would also help if you stopped shoving it down people's throats.

One last thing, next time try not to get so mad when I use something that has something to do with Bret Hart...I know you loathe the guy oh so much because he molested you as a child or some weird shit like that but it just makes you look so stupid. Especially since the meme in question doesn't glorify but actually mocks Bret Hart

I'm done.
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:01 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Default Re: Yokozuna was great

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosihait View Post
Yoko sucks. He sucks ass. And all of you are remembering him from a time where you couldn't tell your ass of your head.



It's seems that YOU are an idiot, sir. YOU have no idea how business work.
My job says different, but let's not get into that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosihait View Post
He had a presence?! So WHY DID HE HAD FUJI AND CORNETTE CARRYING HIS BACK?!

He was scary? OOOOOOH, you're scared of a guy that loses all the time and most of the time sucking air and on his back.
Fuji & Cornette are called managers. Did Undertaker have no presence in his early days, because Paul Bearer was "Carrying his back". No, it's part of the reason Taker is so huge, because he has that aura about him, that presence to make people notice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosihait View Post
Yoko was "Quick for his size" considering that a guy in "his size" was supposed to be dead.

Mae Young is pretty good for an 80 year old woman.

David Otunga is REALLY good for a lawyer that drinks coffee and married to a celebrity.

Ryback is very good for a Ryback.

Yoko was over just as anyone else. It's so easy to say those stuff looking at him as a child.
Please explain this to me i don't think i understand what you are getting at here? Otunga plays his gimmick well enough, although he is fairly awful really. How could Mae Young not be a good 80 year old woman? What is a Ryback?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosihait View Post
He had MORE PRESENCE THEN HULK HOGAN?! THE GUY THAT WAS CELEBRITY?!.
I don't remember saying he had more presence then anyone. I'm not even sure you really understand what i mean by presence. There was a good thread the other day here & it ties in well. People were talking about Brock Lesnar, his entrance, the chance of someone getting their head kicked in. That's called presence, it has nothing to do with how many movies you have made. Noone can argue Lesnar lacks presence & guess what? He has a manager, for a similar reason Yoko had one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosihait View Post
If he's that good, explain to me- What good matches he had? Hogan had:

Rock, Savage, Warrior, Sting, Rock, Angle...

Yoko had BRET.
What defines a good match varies from person to person, im sure you know this. Saying that, this is something i semi agree with you on. The only one that springs to mind is Bret but that does not mean he didn't have other good matches.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosihait View Post
Ummm... YEAH, booking is VERY important. Tyson Kidd is useless with his booking. And if Tyson would've win the title, you'll say "WTF?! WHY?!".

WHAT HE WAS TOLD?! Yoko was TOLD to be bad? Hmmm... So Brad Maddox is REALLY good by that merit, because he's being told to be bad. And Cena is being told to be sucky.

I've showed you in my previous posts two alternative booking options: Mickeybabylon suggested Taker, I say Savage. Both of us agree- NOT YOKO.
Well done, booking is very important to wrestling, personally i like Tyson Kidd & with the right booking anyone can be a feasible champion, all you need is an interesting story. Yoko, would have been told by the booking team to act like a heel, which generally involves things like getting DQ'd.
As someone else said, which is a good point is what if Taker or Savage were not ready for the title? Being pushed when you really ain't ready can have detrimental effects. But because both of you agree, it's a done deal?
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:03 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Default Re: Yokozuna was great

I agree, Yoko was a great heel. An unstoppable force for over a year. Hogan's fluke Mania win did nothing to hurt him and he dominated the rest of the year up until Mania X. He maintained his momentum just fine the rest of '94, he really didn't slow down until after Survivor Series '94. Still, after that I think he and Owen Hart made a great team and had some good matches. Overall, his great run only lasted about 3 years, but it was a great run and I think he is very underrated. Plus, a great worker for a man his size.
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:40 AM   #106 (permalink)
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Default Re: Yokozuna was great

Yoko is someone I didn't fully appreciate until he was gone. Looking back on some great matches he had he was such a great monster heel. I'm 32 so I remember him well. I couldn't stand him after the 93 Rumble because he won by eliminating my favorite at the end and then got into Bret's face. I was however pumped when he beat Hogan at King of the Ring though in 93 to win the title because I can't stand Hogan (respect what he has done for the business but I digress) and it was cool to see a heel champ. Yoko had a very underrated feud with Taker and was part of a fun tag team with Owen. Just a great run for Yoko and I'm sure if I was older and not 12-13 when he was in his prime he would be higher on my all time faves list. But still he is one of the best heels ever I think. Probably top 10.

PS...thank goodness they didnt put the title on Lex in 93. I might be one of the few but I have never been a Luger fan.
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:38 AM   #107 (permalink)
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Default Re: Yokozuna was great

lex luger blows yoko blows.....a lot of the "stars" from the 93-96 crappy wrestling era suck......and i'm 26 which would put me at ages like 7-10....i didn't watch wrestling during that time because it sucked 100 dicks if we are being honest lol.....don't mean to offend anyone who is a fan of that era sorryyyyy
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Old 03-16-2013, 02:31 AM   #108 (permalink)
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Default Re: Yokozuna was great

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sids_chickenleg View Post
How old were you again when Yokozuna was WWF Champ?
Zero. I was born there.

And that's why I don't have any memories from him. That's why I can judge him objectively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sids_chickenleg View Post
Go look back into my posts and point to me where I said Yokozuna was my favorite wrestler. I guarantee you won't find it. What I am going off of was how intimidating and scary he was AT THAT TIME. Like I've stated before, you can't judge him based off "real standards" because you're comparing him to 20 years of stuff since then. You wanted to put the title on Savage. Ok, I get it, but Savage wasn't there mentally then so you can't put the title on him (it's the reason why he was doing a lot of commentating back then). Something you've never even considered.
Two of my FAVORITES! Yoko was fine "AT THE TIME". I hate that.

Back then, you've seen Owen and Bret doing their matches. You've seen Shawn and Razor kicking eachother's asses. You've seen Backlund going nuts and you've seen Bastion Booger eats pizza.

It's not fitting for ANY time. YOU fitted to that time, because you were a kid. And that's a HUGE difference. And no, if Yoko, today, would've been crapped on, so yeah, he worth nothing.

SAVAGE WASN'T THERE MENTALLY. My other favorite excuse. You wanna know what Savage did with Yoko as a champ? He wrestled house shows and put GIANT GONZALES over. Savage WANTED to wrestle back then, he wanted to work with the new generation. Vince knew that Savage was too good so he had him commentate. THAT'S why Savage left. He wanted to wrestle back then! And Vince wouldn't let him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sids_chickenleg View Post
Vince wanted to put the title, eventually, on Bret. He needed a guy to be a monster heel for him to win it off of. Guess who that is? You can't put it on Taker, he's already over huge as a face. You make Bret look legit big (I'm more than willing to bet that Bret was supposed to win the title at Wrestlemania 9 had Hogan not shown up only for him to lose it 4 months later).
THE TITLE WAS ON BRET IN THE FIRST PLACE! DON'T YOU GET IT?!

He needed someone big to defeat... Where was Perfect? What about Savage? Where was Dibiase?

Oh, and now for that Taker's excuse. Taker didn't need the belt because he was over enough? Uh, since when you're putting the title on guys that aren't over?

If we're going by your method, then Austin was a BAD champ. He was over enough! Give the title to Faarooq, turn him over with the belt!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sids_chickenleg View Post
And yes, Vince has lost money at times but he has a whole crap ton more than he ever had in the 90's. So again, if you're this monster genius, why aren't you competing with Vince?
The 90s was the pinnacle of garbage. Yeah, more then the Attitude.

I'm this monster genius, do you get this?

If you prevent me from saying my mind, so this forum won't be exist, because HOW CAN YOU complain about WWE today? You're not competing with Vince!

Yoko sucked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusade View Post
Presence is how you carry yourself in the ring, not how good you are at talking. It's how seriously you can be taken as threat just looking at the person. Yoko for his time certainly had that.
For his time... I've told you about that excuse.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusade View Post
Yoko until WM 9 was booked incredibly strongly. He was undefeated, won the RR and won the main event at wrestlemania. If it weren't for your boy Hulk Hogan not letting go of the spotlight when it wasn't his time Yoko would have held the belt until at least the first King of the Ring.
Pffffft... He was DOMINATING! UNDEFEATED! IN A TIME WHERE EVERYONE WERE!

Besides, he defeated only jobbers. He alreday LOST in house shows to Crush, Taker and even to Bret. He was getting DQed and counted out on those. On TV he was knocked off his feet by Hacksaw. He defeated Savage on TV with Fuji's help... Why did this dominating monster needed any help? Oh, and after the match Savage knocked him to the floor... Dominating!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusade View Post
And Yoko was a scary monster for his time, you are judging with 20 years of wrestling history and hindsight going through the Attitude Era and now a time where people get more over on their real life personalities. Yoko was still in the cartoon era, you seem to forget this.
Again "FOR HIS TIME". But "HIS TIME" was a dark age. "His time" was a time were the company was TRASHED for it. Today I have hindsight, so I KNOW he's not that good. I know that THIS PRODUCT wasn't good.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusade View Post
A comment full of straw man arguments. How fitting considering you have no clue what you are talking about. Funny how you can't come up with an argument suggesting that Yoko wasn't quick for a man around the 500 pound mark and instead resort to stupid comparisons (Mae Young being the of the lot). I bet you don't even know what a strawman argument is.




Again learn what presence means...it doesn't mean how big of a name you are. It's about how u carry yourself in the ring. Whilst it's a stretch to say he has bigger presence than Hogan it is undeniable that he had presence, otherwise he would have not been booked the way he had. That simple.
If he had that much precence, then where did it gone after Wrestlemania?

Your other arguments are so meaningless...




Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusade View Post
Charisma doesn't equal promo skills . Another simple mistake. Charisma by definition is a special personal quality or power of an individual making him capable of influencing or inspiring large numbers of people. Yoko was biggest heel the WWE had in 1993 and 1994. That is a pure fact. Name me one other talent that was a bigger heel than him during that time. HBK? Still in the IC title scene. Ric Flair? Left the company in Jan 1993. Undertaker? Became a face. Mr Perfect? Was a part time performer at best. Macho? Commentary most of the time. Diesel? Didn't establish himself at the earliest till late 94. Ted Dibiase? Was in the tag team division. I could go on. You can't hide from the facts, Yoko was the biggest drawing heel in that period and people came to see him.
SO FUCKING WHAT?!

HE WAS THE BIGGEST HEEL BECAUSE VINCE HAS SAID SO!

Going by that, Del Rio was a great heel at 2011. He was the top heel!

The fact that you're the top heel means nothing. It's about if you DESERVE being the top heel!

People came to see him... But most of the people decided to not watch him. Hogan had some crowd, and most of them turned away when Yoko was the champion. So he was a faliure.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusade View Post
You can't judge him objectively either. You are judging him using 2013 wrestling critique on a wrestler who's prime is in 1993-1994. None of your arguments have made any sense nor have they actually been factually right. You don't even know what presence or charisma means when it comes to wrestling. You think charisma = promo skills when you don't need to have mic skills to be charismatic. You would agree the Undertaker has charisma right? There was a time he didn't say a single word yet people were in awe and drawn to him. THAT is an example of what charisma is. Sting? Same thing during 1997 WCW. He didn't say a word yet other than Hogan was WCW's biggest draw in their hottest period.

Presence is not how big your name is or again..how good your promo skills. You need to learn what you are talking about before you open your mouth. Then maybe your opinion would be taken seriously. It would also help if you stopped shoving it down people's throats.

One last thing, next time try not to get so mad when I use something that has something to do with Bret Hart...I know you loathe the guy oh so much because he molested you as a child or some weird shit like that but it just makes you look so stupid. Especially since the meme in question doesn't glorify but actually mocks Bret Hart

I'm done.
You're done... And you're wrong as well.

I HATE Bret. I never loved him. He sucked.

However, Yoko is suckier.

If he had Charisma, then he would've been a main eventer after Wrestlemania X. However, he wasn't. He had nothing. And the FACT is that when he lost his managers he was... Yeah, nothing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooo!! View Post
My job says different, but let's not get into that.




Fuji & Cornette are called managers. Did Undertaker have no presence in his early days, because Paul Bearer was "Carrying his back". No, it's part of the reason Taker is so huge, because he has that aura about him, that presence to make people notice.
Um... There is ONE TINY problem with your arguement.

Taker has been successful without his manager as well.

Yoko wasn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooo!! View Post
Please explain this to me i don't think i understand what you are getting at here? Otunga plays his gimmick well enough, although he is fairly awful really. How could Mae Young not be a good 80 year old woman? What is a Ryback?
Because that's what you're doing with Yoko. You're saying "He was successful" and then gives him a specific catagory in which he was successful: "For his time", "For his size". No. It's not working like that. Shawn Michaels wasn't good for his time, he was good period. Yoko wasn't good for his time, he was BAD, period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooo!! View Post
I don't remember saying he had more presence then anyone. I'm not even sure you really understand what i mean by presence. There was a good thread the other day here & it ties in well. People were talking about Brock Lesnar, his entrance, the chance of someone getting their head kicked in. That's called presence, it has nothing to do with how many movies you have made. Noone can argue Lesnar lacks presence & guess what? He has a manager, for a similar reason Yoko had one.
So why he was a main eventer for such a short time, and afterwards was a jobber? Lesnar and Taker had precence but they had tons of other stuff as well. Yoko had a big size and that's it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooo!! View Post
What defines a good match varies from person to person, im sure you know this. Saying that, this is something i semi agree with you on. The only one that springs to mind is Bret but that does not mean he didn't have other good matches.
Which is to say that I'm right. If he had other good matches, you could've remembered those. But you've remembered only Bret.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooo!! View Post
Well done, booking is very important to wrestling, personally i like Tyson Kidd & with the right booking anyone can be a feasible champion, all you need is an interesting story. Yoko, would have been told by the booking team to act like a heel, which generally involves things like getting DQ'd.
But you've said he was dominating and scary. You've said he was different.

Well, he wasn't. There you go- He got DQed all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooo!! View Post
As someone else said, which is a good point is what if Taker or Savage were not ready for the title? Being pushed when you really ain't ready can have detrimental effects. But because both of you agree, it's a done deal?
They were ready. Taker was the most popular guy in the roster back then, and Savage was already a legend.

I'm done, Yoko is nothing.

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Old 03-16-2013, 06:47 AM   #109 (permalink)
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Default Re: Yokozuna was great

I am 100% sure Yokozuna did something to you Yosihait, this thread has consumed your life for days now.

Do you want to talk about it?

Personally, I think Yokozuna is a better wrestler than Ric Flair and Brian Danielson COMBINED.
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:13 AM   #110 (permalink)
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Default Re: Yokozuna was great

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Originally Posted by Issues_Sunshyne View Post
I am 100% sure Yokozuna did something to you Yosihait, this thread has consumed your life for days now.

Do you want to talk about it?

Personally, I think Yokozuna is a better wrestler than Ric Flair and Brian Danielson COMBINED.
Now you're just faking it.
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