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Old 01-30-2013, 08:55 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ultimate Warrior

Has there ever been Warrior's side of the story about holding up Vince for money? Things could be seen the other way that Warrior knew his worth too. I say this because Hogan seemed to have the same problem with Vince in 2003 when he claimed he was owed money from WM 19.

I mean no one really says too much about Hall and Nash taking bigger money from Turner in 1996 because their stock and value was seen as more than what Vince was paying them.

With that said it doesn't make things good for Warrior for future dealings if I'm Vince. I would be pissed about it too, but it is business. It goes both ways. Austin I always felt was a guy who got the better of Vince too in his last days of full time competition.

The Warrior's value had to be of high value because he was brought back less than a year later.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:10 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ultimate Warrior

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Originally Posted by promoter2003 View Post
Has there ever been Warrior's side of the story about holding up Vince for money? Things could be seen the other way that Warrior knew his worth too. I say this because Hogan seemed to have the same problem with Vince in 2003 when he claimed he was owed money from WM 19.

I mean no one really says too much about Hall and Nash taking bigger money from Turner in 1996 because their stock and value was seen as more than what Vince was paying them.

With that said it doesn't make things good for Warrior for future dealings if I'm Vince. I would be pissed about it too, but it is business. It goes both ways. Austin I always felt was a guy who got the better of Vince too in his last days of full time competition.

The Warrior's value had to be of high value because he was brought back less than a year later.
Completely different than Warrior's situation. Their contracts expired and were free to go wherever they wanted and asked Vince for more money before signing with WCW. Warrior, while still in contract, demanded more money before his scheduled match.

And then there was a story about Nash demanding more money from Wrestlemania 11 but he did it after the event was over, when the checks where sent out. And I'm sure Hogan did the same thing (I even think Hogan demanded more money for his match with Orton but after it was over). And in all cases, they got their money and didn't have to demand more, minutes before their match.

But you're right, I've never really heard Warrior's side of the story. And the fact that he was brought back twice makes me wonder if this story is even legit. But at the same time, if Vince sees dollar signs, he'll bury the hatchet and maintain a working relationship (Bret, Hogan, Bischoff, Nash, Hall). Let's not forget that Jeff Jarrett has also held Vince up for more money and has basically received the ultimate burial, as he goes completely ignored and isn't worth a DVD, whether positive or negative.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:25 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ultimate Warrior

That's the thing though what was Warrior's contract situation before SummerSlam '91? That is why I said we never heard Warrior's side of the story. If any indication if it was similar to Jarrett's situation then the problem lies with Vince Mcmahon as Warrior was just doing what was right for himself asking for more money.

The thing with Hall and Nash though they were rumored going to wcw way before their last dates(before even Mania). I don't see the big difference they just did what they felt was in their best interest as Warrior did depending on the contract situation.

A year and change later it became a huge deal when Bret did the same thing and Vince Mcmahon went on air saying things like he helped Bret sell out to Ted Turner. Why he was the one who broke the contract with Bret Hart. These guys are all independent contractors, but are treated like employees. The company will always try to make people like in a bad light just like owners in other sports who do the same thing making the athletes look greedy by going on strike.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:42 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ultimate Warrior

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Originally Posted by promoter2003 View Post
That's the thing though what was Warrior's contract situation before SummerSlam '91? That is why I said we never heard Warrior's side of the story. If any indication if it was similar to Jarrett's situation then the problem lies with Vince Mcmahon as Warrior was just doing what was right for himself asking for more money.
Does it matter what his contract situation was? It doesn't justify him holding up a promoter, minutes before bell time. He waited until the actual match to demand more money, which is smart on his behalf as he knew he would get it, but a bad business move because it hurt his reputation.

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The thing with Hall and Nash though they were rumored going to wcw way before their last dates(before even Mania). I don't see the big difference they just did what they felt was in their best interest as Warrior did depending on the contract situation.
It's a big difference. They did not hold up Vince for more money or broke any of the rules of business etiquette. They didn't sign with WCW beforehand, the alerted Vince of what they were offered and wanted him to match it, he said he couldn't because he would have to do it for everybody. Why do you think there is nothing burying Hall & Nash?

Yeah, we can say depending on the contract situation but that's the thing, Hall & Nash contracts were expiring, in which they finished up their dates, which stretched 2 months after they signed with WCW. Any form of negotiation with the competition that could have resulted in them getting fired, like Warrior, would have made them happy, as they wanted to leave anyway. So if Warrior wanted out of his contract, there is no difference. But only if he wanted out of his contract.

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Originally Posted by promoter2003 View Post
A year and change later it became a huge deal when Bret did the same thing and Vince Mcmahon went on air saying things like he helped Bret sell out to Ted Turner. Why he was the one who broke the contract with Bret Hart. These guys are all independent contractors, but are treated like employees. The company will always try to make people like in a bad light just like owners in other sports who do the same thing making the athletes look greedy by going on strike.
Again, big fucking difference. In 1996, Bret was offered a deal by WCW, a pretty big one at that and turned it down and signed with Vince, for what was supposed to be a lifetime contract. As the months go by, business was down and Vince couldn't live up to the agreed upon deal and gave Bret permission to talk with WCW. Bret never wanted to leave, didn't want MORE money and simply wanted to know what Vince had planned for his character. When Vince said he had nothing planned, Bret signed with WCW, which Vince gave him permission twice to do.

So, it's a big difference from Warrior's situation because Bret never asked for more money, never wanted to leave WWE and only did so because Vince went back on his word TWICE, after giving Bret the greenlight to try & snatch the same deal offered the year prior. For Bret, it was never about the money, which makes a big fucking difference between him & Warrior's situation.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:04 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ultimate Warrior

I find it odd in a way, as egotistical as Vince is, he never held much of a grudge against wrestler who did far worse

Hogan testifying against him in court, refusing to job to the new top guy, etc
Eric for almost running him out of business
Austin walking out
All the crap Shawn put him through
Lesnar leaving Vince high and dry

Vince has had a lot of shit with a lot of men, so why is his only remaining feud with Warrior? From what i see, he doesnt give a shit about problems, he gets over anything with money

As for the DVD, I wouldnt call it a WWE hatchet job tbh. Vince wasnt the only guy speaking. Hogan, Heenan, Jericho, Christian, Edge, they were all there. All the opinions came from them. They were the sources of info, they gave their ideas.

And personally, I'd take Jericho's word over anyone in wrestling ever. Whether or not the DVD said the truth, Warrior was a pretty strange individual either way
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:11 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ultimate Warrior

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Originally Posted by Hotdiggity11 View Post
During the Ultimate Warrior/Rick Rude program, Rude came back after the match and asked Warrior to "lighten up" a bit. Warrior got right in Rude's face and said, "I don't have to, because I'm the Warrior." Rude knocked him silly with one punch and walked away.
This is one that I've seen before, and it still makes me laugh my ass off. The idea of someone actually saying something that stupid is just funny. The egos people get.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:25 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ultimate Warrior

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Originally Posted by Deandre Cole View Post
Does it matter what his contract situation was? It doesn't justify him holding up a promoter, minutes before bell time. He waited until the actual match to demand more money, which is smart on his behalf as he knew he would get it, but a bad business move because it hurt his reputation.



It's a big difference. They did not hold up Vince for more money or broke any of the rules of business etiquette. They didn't sign with WCW beforehand, the alerted Vince of what they were offered and wanted him to match it, he said he couldn't because he would have to do it for everybody. Why do you think there is nothing burying Hall & Nash?

Yeah, we can say depending on the contract situation but that's the thing, Hall & Nash contracts were expiring, in which they finished up their dates, which stretched 2 months after they signed with WCW. Any form of negotiation with the competition that could have resulted in them getting fired, like Warrior, would have made them happy, as they wanted to leave anyway. So if Warrior wanted out of his contract, there is no difference. But only if he wanted out of his contract.



Again, big fucking difference. In 1996, Bret was offered a deal by WCW, a pretty big one at that and turned it down and signed with Vince, for what was supposed to be a lifetime contract. As the months go by, business was down and Vince couldn't live up to the agreed upon deal and gave Bret permission to talk with WCW. Bret never wanted to leave, didn't want MORE money and simply wanted to know what Vince had planned for his character. When Vince said he had nothing planned, Bret signed with WCW, which Vince gave him permission twice to do.

So, it's a big difference from Warrior's situation because Bret never asked for more money, never wanted to leave WWE and only did so because Vince went back on his word TWICE, after giving Bret the greenlight to try & snatch the same deal offered the year prior. For Bret, it was never about the money, which makes a big fucking difference between him & Warrior's situation.
I think you aren't getting my whole overall vibe on the situation. I used the sports teams analogy. I just think it's wwe revisionist history because we don't have Warrior's side of the story. They made a whole dvd to bury the guy because he would not do the dvd. Vince also doesn't put people in his HOF depending on which side of the bed he wakes up on.

As for Hall and Nash I remember Jim Ross turning heel with fake Diesel and fake Razor Ramone trying to capitalize on their heat in wcw. The company sued wcw for using their likeness. Why would the company bury them and give them more promo during a Monday Night War where they were losing in the ratings week after week?

HBK and HHH when they made DX referred to the curtain call at MSG and the one who got buried for it was HHH. Hall and Nash were gone onto greener pastures. The company tried to bury Hogan and Savage. We saw how that backfired months later when Hogan used it in his promo at BATB to rip the wwf.

As for Bret Hart I know the story 100 times over. My point was at the end of Bret's loyalty to the company he was railed by the company's boss as a guy who screwed himself and a sell out the night after Montreal. Bret saved the company somewhat by returning in late 1996 and he got treated like the biggest traitor a year later for it. More wwe revisionist history and he would have the same Warrior DVD if he never came back to patch things up.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:01 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ultimate Warrior

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Originally Posted by Deandre Cole View Post
Well, holding up a promoter for more money, minutes before bell time isn't a good business move. Not to mention, accepting payment from an indy promoter, only to no show the event with no explanation isn't a good business move either.


Personally, Warrior profited from it but all it does is further the perception that he was an egomaniac, regardless of how intelligent and down to earth he is in real life.
Holding up Vince for Money... Well, if you watch the Warrior shoot, it is not that Vince shouldnt have seen it comming, becasue IRRC, warrior demanded a meeting with vince to discuss his WM payoff on several occasions for months. Hogan got a huge payoff for his WM match, Warrior at the time was as big star as Hogan, and to be honest, what made WM 7 great was NOT Hogan vs Sgt Slaughter, it was Warrior vs Savage that saved the card

So with that in mind and the fact that Vince never got back to him about the matter with Warior wanting to discuss the matter on numeroous occasions for months, it is not warrior just did what he did out of the blue.

I've said it many times, Vince seems to think that everybody are just dying to get in to the WWE and be happy and grateful where they are. But that was never Warriors, Goldbergs or Lesnars attitude. They knew what they could bring in the the table, sacrified their bodies, saved their money and made their families no1 priority and they knew their name value AND didnt have the need and feel to stay in the business if they were pushed around. So Warrior throwing that tantrum is kind of justified in some ways ways.

But hey I never said Warrior was 100% right doing so, but I dont think he did it just out of the blue without any one seeing it commin. Warrior is not to be soley blamed for what happenend
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:04 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ultimate Warrior

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Originally Posted by ShowStopper '97 View Post
It's more than him being an asshole. He is a strange individual. From his promos to his changing his legal name to the "Warrior." He's out there, to be kind about it.

And say what you want about "assholes", but I don't think I remember any other wrestler holding Vince up for a couple hundred thousands of dollars just minutes before the main event of SummerSlam. Not Hogan, or anyone else.
I'm not an Ultimate Warrior fan, but he has changed his name to Warrior to can use that name outside WWE (i think so), Stone cold's real name is not Steve Austin but he has changed his name to Steve Austin.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:49 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ultimate Warrior

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Originally Posted by promoter2003 View Post
I think you aren't getting my whole overall vibe on the situation. I used the sports teams analogy. I just think it's wwe revisionist history because we don't have Warrior's side of the story. They made a whole dvd to bury the guy because he would not do the dvd. Vince also doesn't put people in his HOF depending on which side of the bed he wakes up on.

As for Hall and Nash I remember Jim Ross turning heel with fake Diesel and fake Razor Ramone trying to capitalize on their heat in wcw. The company sued wcw for using their likeness. Why would the company bury them and give them more promo during a Monday Night War where they were losing in the ratings week after week?

HBK and HHH when they made DX referred to the curtain call at MSG and the one who got buried for it was HHH. Hall and Nash were gone onto greener pastures. The company tried to bury Hogan and Savage. We saw how that backfired months later when Hogan used it in his promo at BATB to rip the wwf.

As for Bret Hart I know the story 100 times over. My point was at the end of Bret's loyalty to the company he was railed by the company's boss as a guy who screwed himself and a sell out the night after Montreal. Bret saved the company somewhat by returning in late 1996 and he got treated like the biggest traitor a year later for it. More wwe revisionist history and he would have the same Warrior DVD if he never came back to patch things up.
Bottom line, you can't compare the situations of Warrior, Bret, Hall & Nash. Whether Warrior held Vince up or not is irrelevant and isn't the sole reason he's been buried. He was fired 3 times. It's more to the story.

In Bret's case, obviously, he was no longer wanted. He gives the idea that he was forced out but has previously said that he didn't like the direction the company was heading in. Plus, Vince couldn't afford to pay him. IMO, he didn't want or need Bret anymore. And you can say he somewhat held Vince up because he refused to drop the belt.

Regarding Hall & Nash, the difference between them & Bret is they did the job on their way out. Unlike Warrior, they didn't hold Vince up for money and Vince's instant take on that is to try to bury them, just like everybody else who's ever left him (he tried to bury Austin, Rock, Hogan, Savage, Luger, etc.).

But in no way can you compare any of these situations, because the circumstances were drastically different.

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Originally Posted by Berkajr View Post
Holding up Vince for Money... Well, if you watch the Warrior shoot, it is not that Vince shouldnt have seen it comming, becasue IRRC, warrior demanded a meeting with vince to discuss his WM payoff on several occasions for months. Hogan got a huge payoff for his WM match, Warrior at the time was as big star as Hogan, and to be honest, what made WM 7 great was NOT Hogan vs Sgt Slaughter, it was Warrior vs Savage that saved the card

So with that in mind and the fact that Vince never got back to him about the matter with Warior wanting to discuss the matter on numeroous occasions for months, it is not warrior just did what he did out of the blue.

I've said it many times, Vince seems to think that everybody are just dying to get in to the WWE and be happy and grateful where they are. But that was never Warriors, Goldbergs or Lesnars attitude. They knew what they could bring in the the table, sacrified their bodies, saved their money and made their families no1 priority and they knew their name value AND didnt have the need and feel to stay in the business if they were pushed around. So Warrior throwing that tantrum is kind of justified in some ways ways.

But hey I never said Warrior was 100% right doing so, but I dont think he did it just out of the blue without any one seeing it commin. Warrior is not to be soley blamed for what happenend
In this case, it's looking like 3 sides to the story. Warrior's side, Vince's side & the truth. And to be honest, we might not ever know the truth.

But, fact is the burial isn't because of him holding Vince up for money, it's a combination of shit that happened in 1991, 1992 and 1996 that made Vince totally dislike him and we might never know exactly why.

Warrior throwing that tantrum was smart on his behalf, as I've said countless times. But if I'm Vince, Warrior would have never been brought back after Summerslam 1991. It's also your opinion that Warrior/Savage made Wrestlemania 7 great but it's also a reason why Warrior wasn't champ going into Wrestlemania 7. And if he thought he should be making what Hogan made, that's where the problem started. Hogan was established before WWE, Warrior had to be built up, which led to him thinking he was a bigger star than he was and WWE realized they pushed him too far. His ego got too big and I don't think he ever lost clean in WWE.
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