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Old 01-31-2013, 01:44 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: How come we never saw Hogan vs Bret Hart?

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Originally Posted by Redead View Post
I never understood what happened with Savage

he was there, and I know he was still a huge star, but for some reason he was relegated to sitting at commentary

It made zero sense. Why not have him feud with Bret? He clearly still wanted to go and he was always a pro

Everything about Bret's reign is bizarre. He won the title on a house show for God's sake. Why didnt he just do it at Survivor Series?
Savage actually gave Hart a pretty big rub, teaming with him in tag matches, you don't always need two guys to face for one to put the other over.

In terms of Hart, it was obvious Vince never felt like Bret was the top guy, because he constantly tried to make new top guys, but Bret was loyal which is why he felt safe with him. It is the same reason Cena is the top dog, he knows Cena is loyal and Vince is too much of a pussy in his old age to try and make new top stars. Cena is one guy they have who is a mainstream star, and even that is a stretch, Cena is nowhere near the mainstream level of guys like Hogan, Savage, Warrior, Austin, Rock were.

Like many have said before though, Hogan had one foot out the door, he had nothing to gain by putting Bret over, when he was going to the rival company. If Vince truly wanted Hart vs Hogan it would've happened, probably at Wrestlemania 9 and if Vince really thought Hart was the next big thing, like he thought of Warrior, he would've had Hogan put over Hart.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:52 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by redban View Post
In the early 1990s, this was a big money-match waiting to happen.

Why didn't they pull the trigger?

They had opportunities, such as Wrestlemania 9 or King of the Ring 1993.

Bret was the young, up and coming star; Hogan was an established celebrity. It's simple:
  • Face-vs-face match.
  • 20 minutes of back and forth fighting.
  • Hogan hulks up, points at Bret, does the boot-kick, yada-yada.. you know the rest
  • Hogan goes for the leg drop but misses.
  • Bret locks in the Sharpshooter.
  • Hogan taps after 5-6 minutes in the Sharpshooter.
  • Handshake, Hug, Kiss, Fireworks ... yadayada
  • Torch is passed.

Shame we never got this.
Shame on Vince.

Hogan was trying to protect his spot and image. You can't keep jobbing your invincible face who can hulk up and defeat 20 goons at once cleanly to another face.

I'm really curious what VKM's plans were with Hogan after WM9. I don't even know why the decided to put the title on Hogan if he wasn't committed over the long haul.

VKM could have easily put Hogan in Yokozuna's spot and had Yoko interfear costing Hogan the match and the title. Then at KOTR its Hogan vs. Yokozuna and Yoko takes Hogan out. Next PPV Yoko wins the title from Bret.

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Originally Posted by The Gorgeous One View Post
Savage actually gave Hart a pretty big rub, teaming with him in tag matches, you don't always need two guys to face for one to put the other over.

In terms of Hart, it was obvious Vince never felt like Bret was the top guy, because he constantly tried to make new top guys, but Bret was loyal which is why he felt safe with him. It is the same reason Cena is the top dog, he knows Cena is loyal and Vince is too much of a pussy in his old age to try and make new top stars. Cena is one guy they have who is a mainstream star, and even that is a stretch, Cena is nowhere near the mainstream level of guys like Hogan, Savage, Warrior, Austin, Rock were.

Like many have said before though, Hogan had one foot out the door, he had nothing to gain by putting Bret over, when he was going to the rival company. If Vince truly wanted Hart vs Hogan it would've happened, probably at Wrestlemania 9 and if Vince really thought Hart was the next big thing, like he thought of Warrior, he would've had Hogan put over Hart.
JOHN CENA is far more popular and mainstream then Savage and Warrior ever were.

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Originally Posted by birthday_massacre View Post
Well Bret didnt want to put HBK over in Montreal on his way out the door, so Bret is just as bad as Hogan, he didnt do what was best for the company.
Bret was worse... He was the champ. I get not wanting to put someone over but so much is riding on the belt.

WWF was losing money. Having the WWE Champ pull a Madusa and toss the belt in the trash could have killed the company and ended the WWE.

Last edited by Clique : 01-31-2013 at 05:03 PM. Reason: triple post; use edit or multi-quote button
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:42 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: How come we never saw Hogan vs Bret Hart?

Hogan's ego. For whatever reason, Hogan always held a grudge against Hart. Didn't want to put Bret over when Vince was phasing Hulkamania out then when The Hitman came to WCW, Hogan and Nash did everything they could do to keep Bret a midcarder even though Bischoff paid a huge fortune to sign him over.

My guess Hogan was always jealous of Bret. A younger, smaller guy who was almost as popular and a better in-ring worker than him. Coincidentally, when Hogan wasn't around, Bret became WCW Champion.

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Old 02-01-2013, 05:47 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: How come we never saw Hogan vs Bret Hart?

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Originally Posted by IRISHwhip78 View Post

JOHN CENA is far more popular and mainstream then Savage and Warrior ever were.
Bullshit with a capital SHIT. I was actually alive and watched back then. Nobody in Wrestling since Austin and Rock even comes close to the midcard of the 80s and early 90s WWF.

As I have often said, take Cena right now and put him back in time to the 1984-1990 era and Cena would be no higher level than Jim Powers or Paul Roma. We actually demanded a good, quality product in those days, and Vince delivered.

Just why do you think it is that Vince has to reach back in time and call back the big stars of previous eras to pop buy rates and spike ratings? It's exactly because the modern "superstars" are shit compared to previous eras.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:06 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: How come we never saw Hogan vs Bret Hart?

Hogan probably preferred Yoko because of the size issue or he thought Bret wasn't ready. I doubt it was a personal issue, that was his mentality and no one at this point in time was close to him in making a profit for the industry worldwide. Anyway, as big as Hogan/Hart would have been in 1993, Hogan/Hart in 1998 was on a different caliber. That was by far the number 1 dream match in history at some point and WCW had both guys as hot as possible available for a main event match on a big PPV. Instead Bret came in and worked his first program with Flair, which was also a match that people wanted to see but not as big.

There were reports around that time that Hogan took himself out of the Hart/Flair Souled Out PPV because he waited for it to bomb and wanted to use it as a proof that Bret is not a money drawing talent, instead the PPV did very well. Hogan then booked Bret to play second fiddle to him in the nWo as a secondary attraction to Hogan's main attraction so all the credit goes to him. Before that, Hogan main evented with Sting and Savage over Bret on PPVs. All of it is hard to believe because Hogan as one of the smartest guys of all time in the business knew how big a match against Bret on PPV could have been. The finish was irrelevant as they could have done some DQ, or fast rollup count or something. He could have taken all the credit for the buyrate if he wanted but instead always prevented the match until Bret lost all his momentum in the mid card and all the heel/babyface turns he did. I still believe that Hogan/Hart from January 1998 to January 1999 could have break records with a long build. Especially in early 1998.

In the middle of it they had their first ever and only one on one match together in September-October 1998 on Nitro. I liked how in that match Hogan showed some nice mat wrestling to counter Bret's style. A match on PPV between them had potential to be very good. Overall, this is one of the biggest missed opportunities of all time. Much like almost every program in WCW 1998 where business was so hot, they had almost 10 legit money drawing performers that could have main evented a successful PPV, merchandise flying, sold out arenas everywhere but STILL didn't maximize all their worth by not putting them on place in the cards.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:12 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: How come we never saw Hogan vs Bret Hart?

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Originally Posted by Mike Zybyszko View Post
Bullshit with a capital SHIT. I was actually alive and watched back then. Nobody in Wrestling since Austin and Rock even comes close to the midcard of the 80s and early 90s WWF.

As I have often said, take Cena right now and put him back in time to the 1984-1990 era and Cena would be no higher level than Jim Powers or Paul Roma. We actually demanded a good, quality product in those days, and Vince delivered.

Just why do you think it is that Vince has to reach back in time and call back the big stars of previous eras to pop buy rates and spike ratings? It's exactly because the modern "superstars" are shit compared to previous eras.

So was I, Savage and Warrior were on Superstars which didn't do anything ratings wise. Cena is on TV every week and it pulls respectable numbers.

Savage and Warrior did commercials for Slim Jim while Cena was doing Gillette and Fruity Pebbels. The only wrestlers on or above Cena's level are Hogan, Austin, and the Rock.

Vince is reaching back in time because he realizes their is a nostalgia factor. Rock is a HUGE STAR in Hollywood. LESNAR is a legit MMA Fighter NOW. It's not like VKM is trying to bring back Razor Ramon or Diesel.

You comapring Cena to Jim Powers is just absurd. Lets not pretend that the WWE Mid Card was anything special seriously Killer Kahn, Outback Jack, Billy Jack, Bob Orton, Hercules, Tom Zenk, Tito Santana, a broken down King Harley Race, Hill Billy Jim, Butch Reed, Iron Shiek, Honky Tonk Man, Volkoff, Zukoff, the Killer Bees.

PLEASE

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Old 02-03-2013, 03:04 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: How come we never saw Hogan vs Bret Hart?

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Originally Posted by Deandre Cole View Post
What does that have to do with why we never saw Hogan vs. Bret?
Ummm... I donít know... how about the fact that when the two met in WCW Bret Hart turned? And how about the fact that his first turn in WCW was to help Hogan reclaim the WHC? Itís pretty freakiní difficult to book two faction members in a feud. Use your common sense.
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Old 02-03-2013, 04:40 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: How come we never saw Hogan vs Bret Hart?

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Originally Posted by eyebrowmorroco View Post
Ummm... I donít know... how about the fact that when the two met in WCW Bret Hart turned? And how about the fact that his first turn in WCW was to help Hogan reclaim the WHC? Itís pretty freakiní difficult to book two faction members in a feud. Use your common sense.

So you admit they met in a match, right? So, technically this thread is a waste, since they had a match, right? Doesn't matter whether Bret turned or not, or what politics Hogan used, THE FACT THEY HAD A FUCKING MATCH IS ALL THAT MATTERS!!! That's what this thread is about and nothing you posted explained why over the course of 1992/1993, we never got Hogan/Bret.

Your wasting your time arguing in this thread over whatever Hogan did to prevent guys from taking his spot and admit him & Bret had a match. So, the fact that they worked in WCW against each other is what gives me the common sense to ask what does anything you just said have to do with this topic?




You mean difficult like Savage/Hogan and Hogan/Nash?
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Old 02-03-2013, 04:59 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: How come we never saw Hogan vs Bret Hart?

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Originally Posted by Deandre Cole View Post
So you admit they met in a match, right? So, technically this thread is a waste, since they had a match, right? Doesn't matter whether Bret turned or not, or what politics Hogan used, THE FACT THEY HAD A FUCKING MATCH IS ALL THAT MATTERS!!! That's what this thread is about and nothing you posted explained why over the course of 1992/1993, we never got Hogan/Bret.

Your wasting your time arguing in this thread over whatever Hogan did to prevent guys from taking his spot and admit him & Bret had a match. So, the fact that they worked in WCW against each other is what gives me the common sense to ask what does anything you just said have to do with this topic?
Iím choosing not to limit it to the early Ď90s. We all know the story; Hogan wouldnít job to Hart, he vetoed the idea. Itís far more interesting to entertain the clever ways in which Hogan continued to hold these guys down.


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Originally Posted by Deandre Cole View Post
You mean difficult like Savage/Hogan and Hogan/Nash?
Yes. Itís pretty hard to keep dodging a guy when the fans are calling for it. Bret Hart, at his strongest point in WCW, was absorbed by the nWo. The turn came out of thin air.

The nWo absorbed Savage when he was at his highest point as one of the main defenders of WCW. Hogan inevitably would have had to drop the title to Savage to make him legitimate as the top threat. Keep your enemies closer.
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:24 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: How come we never saw Hogan vs Bret Hart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyebrowmorroco View Post
Iím choosing not to limit it to the early Ď90s. We all know the story; Hogan wouldnít job to Hart, he vetoed the idea. Itís far more interesting to entertain the clever ways in which Hogan continued to hold these guys down.
And isn't that pretty much the story in their time in WCW? One guy refusing to job to the other? It's the story of Hogan's career (since 1983), so it should come to no surprise why their only match was a swerve, with no actual winner. Except, we can't solely say Hogan refused to job to Bret in WCW, as Bret, going back to his ways with HBK, refused to job to Hogan.


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Originally Posted by eyebrowmorroco View Post
Yes. Itís pretty hard to keep dodging a guy when the fans are calling for it. Bret Hart, at his strongest point in WCW, was absorbed by the nWo. The turn came out of thin air.

The nWo absorbed Savage when he was at his highest point as one of the main defenders of WCW. Hogan inevitably would have had to drop the title to Savage to make him legitimate as the top threat. Keep your enemies closer.
But didn't every NWO turn come out of thin air? That's what made it that more epic because it was unexpected. At that time, regardless of his previous accomplishments, Bret shouldn't have been booked, as a babyface, to feud with Hogan, considering Sting, Goldberg and DDP were all on a roll and Kevin Nash was on the rise. And none of those guys, who were threats to Hogan, ever got absorbed by the NWO. Sting, Goldberg and DDP often came out on top against the NWO.

It wasn't as much as Hogan absorbing Bret because he was a threat, it was more so that they didn't like each other anyway, all because Bret, in his mind, thinks he was supposed to go over Hogan in 1993 and his side of the story is the only proof of that. He buried Flair because Flair wouldn't let him call the match, so Bret has a tendency to air his grievances with somebody over something so minor, petty and quite possibly untrue, because in his mind he thinks he should have been and was bigger than he was, despite having some pretty good accomplishments in the business.


And I don't think NWO absorbed Savage. Keep in mind that after Hogan joined the NWO, his only truly original feud was with Luger. Hogan/Savage and Hogan/Piper had all been done to death 7-12 years prior and overall, would have limited the push of a guy like DDP and taken the focus off the transformation of Sting. Not only that but because of their past and rather strained relationship, it made it even better, giving the idea of "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em".

You can say the NWO absorbed guys but in the end, it benefited mid card talents into becoming main eventers by picking up the slack. If they kept going with Hogan/Savage, it just would have taken away from Sting's build up, as well as the rise of DDP, which came due to his feud with NWO Savage. If WCW jumped right into Bret/Hogan, where would Goldberg have been? Would the Wolfpack have been a bigger waste than it was?

Only thing Bret/Hogan or a longer Hogan/Savage feud could have provided was nostalgia but at the same time, prevented other things from happening, with guys taking a backseat because of an attempt to rehash and stretch out an old feud and having an "outsider" step in and defend a company that didn't need any more big named heroes, as in 1997-1998, they already had DDP, Sting, Goldberg, Luger, The Giant (off and on), the Steiners, Kevin Nash to an extent, Ric Flair and Roddy Piper to name a few. And with the exception of Giant and Scott Steiner, none of those guys got absorbed by the NWO.
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