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Old 01-27-2013, 10:41 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: How come we never saw Hogan vs Bret Hart?

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Originally Posted by redban View Post
But he screwed us over.

We could have gotten Bret Hart vs Hulk Hogan in a classic. Instead, we the Yokozuna vs Bret + Yokozuna vs Hogan nonsense.
I totally agree. Looking at it from Hogan's perspective, he had little to gain by putting Bret over and we know Hulk was always looking out for Hulk first. Losing to Yokozuna made Hogan look better because of Yoko's huge stature and because he could get screwed out of the title. Hogan was in business for himself at that point.

Vince never seemed to fully trust Bret at that point. Granted, it was an odd time for the WWF. It was a changing of the guard which was somewhat forced by all the departures from the company. Even in his second reign, it seemed like Vince didn't fully trust Bret to headline cards. Just take a look at his PPV title defenses during the second reign:

94 KOTR: Diesel (with Shawn Michaels) defeated Bret Hart (c) (with Jim Neidhart) by disqualification (5th match out of 10)
94 Summerslam: Bret Hart (c) defeated Owen Hart. (6th match out of 7)
94 Survivor Series: Bob Backlund (with Owen Hart) defeated Bret Hart (c) (with The British Bulldog) (3rd match out of 5)

Not only pure headlining gig and only got put over by his brother clean on PPV despite a 248 day reign. Then Diesel beat Backlund in eight seconds, further making him look weak. I understand PPV's were more sparse but that's not exactly the best booking to make a champ look strong.
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:55 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: How come we never saw Hogan vs Bret Hart?

I don't blame Hogan, because there was some wondering if Bret could carry the company as a top face. He ultimately did, but Hogan didn't want to start losing to a lot of guys; he was never accustomed to doing that previously, and of the old school mentality. Bruno rarely lost - was he selfish. Andre rarely lost. Hogan had lost to the Ultimate Warrior and Sid kicked out of his legdrop.
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:30 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: How come we never saw Hogan vs Bret Hart?

I don't know if this had anything to do with it, might have considering hogan's oldschool kayfabe attitude... but at the time I don't think top face vs top face would have worked out as well as everyone thinks. The fans in general, especially those that went to the shows, were programmed completely differently back then. I could see a lot of confused people and crying children being the result..

I've said it before but I don't blame hogan. I think he saw all the signs of Vince doing everything he possibly could to get rid of him and the paycheck he was getting. When it comes down to it wrestlers are independent contractors and the #1 rule for a contractor is to cover your ass. He did the job for Warrior and that ended up flopping. I could see him thinking that first it would be bret, then who? and who after that? and on and on.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:34 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: How come we never saw Hogan vs Bret Hart?

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Originally Posted by Rugal 3:16 View Post
Bret was a bitter and noisy young man who then complained and whined a lot about people not putting him over and wouldn't let him get past the mid card, Hogan was the Superstar Bret was barely even a Jabroni who was at the right place at the right time. Hogan knowing Bret who had been with the company together since WM2 era would know of Bret's young bitter and whiny nature and how he puts himself over everyone, so Hogan did the locker room a favor and screwed Bret in WM9 therefore putting Bret in his place with the good intention of teaching him a lesson (for Bret's own good) and what does Bret do??

He whines (of course) and stated Hogan screwed him (even though given the circumstances it was justifiable) what an ingrate.

Bret should have manned up and not complain like HHH manned up and owned up to his part in the Garden incident then maybe he'd have the maturity for Hogan to reconsider and be deserving of a match with the Hulkster.
Anyone care to guess who this poster thinks Montreal was to blame on?
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:43 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: How come we never saw Hogan vs Bret Hart?

They did wrestle once on Nitro which ended in a DQ. Genius booking. Genius.
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:27 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: How come we never saw Hogan vs Bret Hart?

According to the June 21, 1993 WON, Hogan/Yokozuna was going to happen again at Summerslam and Bret/Lawler was already the plan, based on King Of The Ring. From there, Hogan would win the title again. But according to Meltzer, the idea was to bring Hogan back because buyrates were pretty low. However, they didn't improve with him and with Hogan having an image to up hold in Hollywood, he left before things could really get bad.



And it's something about Bret that makes me question if Hogan/Bret was actually ever supposed to happen. It was known Flair was on his way out in 1992, Hogan had left and Warrior got fired again. So, they put the belt on Bret, as he was really over. But, business didn't increase and actually got worse. So, they made the play for Hogan to come back and hyped the hell out of his Wrestlemania return. Now, I did read that Hogan agreed to only come back if he would get the belt. And WWE thought it would benefit the buyrate of Wrestlemania, so it was given the green light.

Then, the problems started. Storyline wise, IIRC Yokozuna had began campaigning to get his rematch, so Bret wouldn't have gotten the shot at KOTR in that sense, as WWE had been moving forward with the Hogan/Yokozuna feud. Weeks before KOTR, Hogan was said to have done an interview in Japan and pretty much downplayed the title as if it wasn't important to him at that point. Also, he negotiated to bring in Masao Hattori for the KOTR match and have the role as a heel referee that screws Hogan out of the title. This was going to set up Hogan/Yokozuna for Summerslam, with Hogan winning the belt for the 6th time. But, a week before KOTR, the plan changed and WWE informed Hattori they would not be using him.

From there, they came up with the "photographer fireball" but had still planned for the Summerslam match. About a week after KOTR, Hogan, Beefcake and Jimmy Hart all pulled themselves from previously committed dates, as well as the Summerslam PPV. Meltzer basically said Hogan didn't like the direction of the company or the fact that business didn't go up after his return. So, a few weeks later, he officially parted ways with the company.


To my original point about Bret, if the plan was for Bret/Hogan at Summerslam, why didn't Bret replace Hogan in the original main event with Yokozuna for the title? It just doesn't seem real that Bret/Hogan was ever going to happen, at least in 1993. Because for 1, Bret was out of the title picture from Wrestlemania onward. Hogan was in the picture, he left, Luger came into the picture and he didn't work out as planned and then Undertaker began a program for the title.

I have every copy of the Observer in 1993 and not once have I read anything about Hogan vs. Bret. Not saying that it wasn't planned but where's the proof? I'm not saying anything bad about Bret but WWE tried their best to avoid giving him the belt in 1993. And the problem is, nothing else worked. At that time, only 1 guy was just as over, if not more, than Bret and that was Taker. And his gimmick didn't really call for him winning the belt. But, Bret was consistently putting on good matches and had really stepped it up. But, WWE obviously didn't not want him to be the man. It wasn't until Hogan left for good, Luger was a bust and the steroid allegations that they really pushed forward with him.
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:31 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: How come we never saw Hogan vs Bret Hart?

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Originally Posted by BrownCow View Post
They did wrestle once on Nitro which ended in a DQ. Genius booking. Genius.
willing to bet the match was announced a few days earlier on thunder
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:43 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: How come we never saw Hogan vs Bret Hart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deandre Cole View Post
According to the June 21, 1993 WON, Hogan/Yokozuna was going to happen again at Summerslam and Bret/Lawler was already the plan, based on King Of The Ring. From there, Hogan would win the title again. But according to Meltzer, the idea was to bring Hogan back because buyrates were pretty low. However, they didn't improve with him and with Hogan having an image to up hold in Hollywood, he left before things could really get bad.



And it's something about Bret that makes me question if Hogan/Bret was actually ever supposed to happen. It was known Flair was on his way out in 1992, Hogan had left and Warrior got fired again. So, they put the belt on Bret, as he was really over. But, business didn't increase and actually got worse. So, they made the play for Hogan to come back and hyped the hell out of his Wrestlemania return. Now, I did read that Hogan agreed to only come back if he would get the belt. And WWE thought it would benefit the buyrate of Wrestlemania, so it was given the green light.

Then, the problems started. Storyline wise, IIRC Yokozuna had began campaigning to get his rematch, so Bret wouldn't have gotten the shot at KOTR in that sense, as WWE had been moving forward with the Hogan/Yokozuna feud. Weeks before KOTR, Hogan was said to have done an interview in Japan and pretty much downplayed the title as if it wasn't important to him at that point. Also, he negotiated to bring in Masao Hattori for the KOTR match and have the role as a heel referee that screws Hogan out of the title. This was going to set up Hogan/Yokozuna for Summerslam, with Hogan winning the belt for the 6th time. But, a week before KOTR, the plan changed and WWE informed Hattori they would not be using him.

From there, they came up with the "photographer fireball" but had still planned for the Summerslam match. About a week after KOTR, Hogan, Beefcake and Jimmy Hart all pulled themselves from previously committed dates, as well as the Summerslam PPV. Meltzer basically said Hogan didn't like the direction of the company or the fact that business didn't go up after his return. So, a few weeks later, he officially parted ways with the company.


To my original point about Bret, if the plan was for Bret/Hogan at Summerslam, why didn't Bret replace Hogan in the original main event with Yokozuna for the title? It just doesn't seem real that Bret/Hogan was ever going to happen, at least in 1993. Because for 1, Bret was out of the title picture from Wrestlemania onward. Hogan was in the picture, he left, Luger came into the picture and he didn't work out as planned and then Undertaker began a program for the title.

I have every copy of the Observer in 1993 and not once have I read anything about Hogan vs. Bret. Not saying that it wasn't planned but where's the proof? I'm not saying anything bad about Bret but WWE tried their best to avoid giving him the belt in 1993. And the problem is, nothing else worked. At that time, only 1 guy was just as over, if not more, than Bret and that was Taker. And his gimmick didn't really call for him winning the belt. But, Bret was consistently putting on good matches and had really stepped it up. But, WWE obviously didn't not want him to be the man. It wasn't until Hogan left for good, Luger was a bust and the steroid allegations that they really pushed forward with him.
All true, but I believe Bret Hart. I just think he was lied to plain and simple. I haven't seen Vince Mcmahon deny what Bret has said. The irony in this is that Bret was kind of guilty of the same behavior in 1997 although I understood why he acted the way he acted. He had the same worries that Hogan had in 1993 about his stock.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:31 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: How come we never saw Hogan vs Bret Hart?

As far as their WWF career goes, Hulk dodged putting Bret over like the plague - and that is why.

If you read Bret's book, and manage to survive the bitterness, he describes the whole scenario of how two faced Hogan was about it all.

Of course this is all based upon Bret telling the truth. Yeah he can be bitter as Hell but I generally believe him on most of these matters.
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:57 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: How come we never saw Hogan vs Bret Hart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deandre Cole View Post
I have every copy of the Observer in 1993 and not once have I read anything about Hogan vs. Bret. Not saying that it wasn't planned but where's the proof? I'm not saying anything bad about Bret but WWE tried their best to avoid giving him the belt in 1993. And the problem is, nothing else worked. At that time, only 1 guy was just as over, if not more, than Bret and that was Taker. And his gimmick didn't really call for him winning the belt. But, Bret was consistently putting on good matches and had really stepped it up. But, WWE obviously didn't not want him to be the man. It wasn't until Hogan left for good, Luger was a bust and the steroid allegations that they really pushed forward with him.

Bret claims there were promotional pictures of him and Hulk both holding the title to hype up Summerslam
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