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Old 01-09-2013, 11:12 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1995: The year in prowrestling that sucked tremendously

I could name a lot more great matches and moments last year then I can in 1995. Punk is ten times the champion Diesel will ever be, The midcard was better even if it wasn't all that great and hell for anyone who cares about the numbers (I don't), business was way better.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:12 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1995: The year in prowrestling that sucked tremendously

1995 was a terrible year, Bret Hart (the finest worker in the world) was working a pirate, WWE were bringing in characters like TL Hopper, Barry Horrowitz and Waylon Mercy, eurrgh.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:23 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1995: The year in prowrestling that sucked tremendously

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Originally Posted by Dusty Roids View Post
No I never said they were bad but they weren't doing any spectular stuff either before the jump to WCW IMO.

The overall product was just lame as fuck both for WWF and WCW.

Of course there are always some good matches in any year in wrestling.

I have seen many here name 2009 as the worst year, but IMO SD wasn't that bad.
I could name 20 great matches from Smackdown in 2009 and on top of those you had Punk's best career fued vs Jeff Hardy. 09 Smackdown is way underrated I guess no one watched it, but Punk, Hardy, Morrison, Rey, Edge, and Jericho were all on fire it was great.
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Originally Posted by ShinobiMusashi View Post
ECW was very good in 95. I'd say they were the best promotion in north America that year. I never watched through 95 ECW until I started my American Hardcore Theatre thread, and I've enjoyed watching through. The Raven vs Dreamer feud, Guerrero vs Malenko series(9 incredible singles matches), and the incredible Bill Alphonso Penn State Athletic Commissioner storyline where Cactus Jack turns heel with the best promos in wrestling history. A shit load of underrated, rarely ever seen matches. Rey Mysterio, Psicosis, Al Snow, Benoit, Marty Jannet, and of course Steve Austin's incredible return from the injury that led to him being fired from WCW. Austin in ECW was must see in 1995.

I'd put ECW Hostile City Showdown 95 and November To Remember 95 over any of WCW or WWF's pay per views from 95.
ECW was easily the best US fed that year. I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking Foley's promos from that time are the goat promos. The Eddie/Malenko stuff doesn't hold up like Flair/Steamboat, but it's still good stuff. Young Mysterio was a once in a lifetime high flyer.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:52 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1995: The year in prowrestling that sucked tremendously

Smackdown is better than Raw most years in my opinion. Another reason ratings have nothing to do with quality, the B show will never get the same hype or have a decent chance of outrating Raw, yet it was better at least half the time.
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:37 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1995: The year in prowrestling that sucked tremendously

1995 WWF still had

Bret
Shawn
Taker
Razor
Nash
Sid
Jarrett


I'll take all those workers over anything they're throwing out there at the moment

Citing Brock, Rock, Taker, HHH in 2012 doesn't mean much to me because they only show up a few times a year. In 1995 you got to watch all those guys wrestle weekly or at least monthly.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:36 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1995: The year in prowrestling that sucked tremendously

Also lets not forget 1995 had a few guys who would go on to be big superstars in the attitude era

Kama

Isaac Yankem

HHH

Billy Gunn

123-Kid

The Roadie

Matt & Jeff Hardy
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:31 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1995: The year in prowrestling that sucked tremendously

Yeah, 1995 was a terrible year. Mabel as King Of The Ring, a Lawrence Taylor/Bam Bam Bigelow WM main event all led to it being a terrible year.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:15 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1995: The year in prowrestling that sucked tremendously

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Originally Posted by Deandre Cole View Post
But doesn't that come with us being older as fans and expecting things to always cater to our liking?


I personally enjoyed 2012, mainly Wrestlemania, Extreme Rules, Punk's heel turn, Team Hell No. But I hated People Power, I'm tired of Big Show and I hate how every belt not named the WWE Title seems irrelevant.

But, that's nothing compared to the most boring title reign in history, the worst push in wrestling history and a series of the worst PPV's in wrestling history.

The big problem is, in 1995, the business was searching for that next surge, that was sparked by the competition. IMO, unless TNA gets their shit together, WWE won't improve because they have no reason to. They are geared towards children and when you're closest competition drops the ball at the goal line everytime, they aren't in danger because that younger fanbase is what is going to keep them going.


Bottom line, if we possessed the same knowledge we have no in other eras in wrestling outside of the Attitude Era, we would call that out, too. And comparing what I saw in 1995 to 2012, with the concept of what I like to see in wrestling, 1995 was far worse and it's not even close.
Its a matter of perspective.

I feel insulted that the WWE of 2012 feels the need to try and destroy wrestling concepts that have been around and worked flawlessly for decades and rebuild them as something that is so badly flawed it makes them look like unprofessional losers. Without mentioning the Dolph Ziggler clean losses to Cena leading into TLC, let's name a few:

-AJ, a valet, is put into a position where she is to get all of the heel heat instead of Dolph Ziggler, who is the one who is feuding with John Cena, the top guy in the WWE. We will never get an AJ/Cena showdown, match or program, and yet she is the one who is positioned as Cena's primary opposition. Meantime, Dolph is just sort of there hanging around, which is why this feud has lost all interest. Why in God's name would you do this? There's literally zero reason and it'll end up being a total waste of time.

-AJ, again as a valet, is put into a position where she completely overshadows the WWE title feud between Daniel Bryan and CM Punk (and Kane briefly). The focal point of the story is not who will become champion, its who AJ will side with and thus, who AJ will fuck over. The WWE title...placed below a diva in terms of importance...

-Daniel Bryan is getting over with Yes/No (much to my everlasting chagrin, but nonetheless), so the WWE does everything they can to make one of the better workers on the roster into a complete joke and chump.

I had a lengthy post about why WCW 2000 was better than WWE 2012 and did a bunch of these comparisons. Let me see if I can find it.
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:33 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1995: The year in prowrestling that sucked tremendously

Quote:
Originally Posted by KO Bossy View Post
Sorry, but unlike 1995, 2012 set out on a mission to fuck up, destroy and then do the worst possible job of reinventing some of the most simple fucking wrestling concepts that a 2 year old could figure them out. Things like "don't beat the heel twice clean on television in the weeks preceding the PPV and expect people to pay $55 to buy the PPV just to end up seeing the heel win." Yeah, 1995 didn't fuck up that badly.

1995 was just a bad year. 2012 made people seriously question why they were still wrestling fans, the WWE has made wrestling THAT uncool, uninteresting and so completely devalued and meaningless.
Are you sure you're not talking about 2009? Because I'd rather watch WWE 2012 than RAW 2009, damn that shit was terrible. Months and months of Orton/Cena main eventing and horrible hosts in a VERY PG environment. But I guess you forgot about 2009? Suffering from a clear case of recency bias. 1995 did fuck up badly, a lot. It wasn't "just a bad year", it sucked, hard. WCW did too. That's what this topic is about, wrestling in a whole sucked arse. Sure ECW was doing well but ECW was also very small.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DualShock View Post
This
2012 is even worse than 1995 but I didn't want to start a talk about 2012 in a 1995 thread but I'm not surprised it's already mentioned because it's true.
In 1995 we had shitty gimmicks but at least the wrestling shows were about wrestling. They mentioned the make-a-wish stuff 1-2 times in a year but it was all about the wrestlers and the matches no matter how good or bad they are unlike today.
We had some hilarious match types like the hog pen match or the kiss my foot match but at least every match had a real storyline why they had this match.
Today it's just "I will fight you for the 500th time to see who the better man is" or "I want you in this type of match because that match type is also the name of the next PPV"
WWE accomplished to have a shitty year depite appearances by The Rock, Brock Lesnar, Triple H, The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels and Paul Heyman. The big names in 1995 like Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Randy Savage or Sting were unavailable because they were in WCW and the stars who were in WWE during that time like Bret Hart, The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Razor Ramon and Diesel didn't disappoint when they had a match against each other.
1995 had a wrestler vs football star but even that match had a good storyline. Lawrence Taylor is in the crowd at the Rumble and Bam Bam pushed him because he was frustrated that he lost, they had an emotional face to face confrontation and they agreed to the match. Today you had The Rock appearing and saying "I will get a titleshot in 8 months" with no real explanation why (because of the movies). You had Triple H appearing and saying "Brock I hate you so much that I want to fight you in 3 months" with no real explanation why not earlier if he hates him so much (because of Lesnar's contract).
You had shitty matches like Undertaker vs Kama, Bret Hart vs Isaac Yankem or Diesel vs King Mabel but at least they tried it with established stars vs "not established wrestlers" matches. Today you have only 5-6 established guys like The Rock, Lesnar, Triple H, Undertaker, Cena and Punk who already had matches and they will have multiple matches in the future against each other without letting anybody else getting a chance.
There are many other examples why 2012 is probably the worst year, even worse than 1995. 1995 was just a bad year like Bossy said
You failed to make an actual point once. Saying in 2012 we only had established guys is ridiculous anyway. We had a Daniel Bryan World Title reign, and Bryan chasing the WWE Title for a few months. We've had the rise of Ryback. Punk on a 1+ year long title reign (I wouldn't put Punk among the likes of Rock, HHH and Taker just yet). Lots of debuts of promising great wrestlers in general and most are being pushed (e.g. Cesaro).

Saying Taylor/Bam Bam's storyline was decent doesn't make it right. A fucking non-wrestler headlined WM and WON. I don't even know who this guy is and probably a lot of other foreigners didn't who make up a large portion of the audience. You say they constantly put on shitty matches in 1995, which is true, hell Mable won the KOTR and faced Diesel for the WWF Title for fuck sakes. But somehow that's still better than 2012 because in 2012 established wrestlers were used.....eh? At least 2012 had some great matches. Hell, 2012's roster is much much better than 1995's in general. The Rock (after beating Cena) declaring he received a WWE Title shot from the board and using it at the Royal Rumble is the reason 2012 sucks? First of all, he just headlined WM and beat the WWE's poster boy John Cena clean, so that pretty much constitutes a title shot. Secondly, why not announce it in advance and have the match at one of the biggest PPV's of the year? Just makes sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ejc8710 View Post
Also lets not forget 1995 had a few guys who would go on to be big superstars in the attitude era

Kama

Isaac Yankem

HHH

Billy Gunn

123-Kid

The Roadie

Matt & Jeff Hardy
So? They were all underutilized in 1995 or not ready yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KO Bossy View Post
I had a lengthy post about why WCW 2000 was better than WWE 2012 and did a bunch of these comparisons. Let me see if I can find it.
I remember that, that didn't make much sense. Russo fully exposing the business with horrible storylines, constant World Title switches, shitty wrestling or 2012? Come on.

I've yet to see a real good reason why 2012 is worse than 1995. Unbelievable, it's the same thing every year.
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:27 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1995: The year in prowrestling that sucked tremendously

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So? They were all underutilized in 1995 or not ready yet.
That's something that I want to talk about.

If you'll check the bad roster of 1995 (And it WAS the worst roster ever), you'll see a lot of guys that actually made it and were great during the attitude.

That shows you that EVERYONE can be a star, and if the WWE will just give it a shot, we can get another boom period.

Hell, in Wrestling level, the 1998 roster was WORSE then the 1995 roster!

I just hate it when people say "Today's wrestler are the sh*t, we'll never get a good product". If Kama Mustafa and Issac Yankem became stars in 1998, the WWE can do anything!
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