Analyze This: Greatest of All Times - Page 4 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums

View Poll Results: Should Business factors and Drawing ability be a criteria for Greatness?

Yes 25 59.52%
No 15 35.71%
Others (Please elaborate) 2 4.76%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-17-2012, 07:23 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: Analyze This: Greatest of All Times

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gorgeous One View Post
To your point. Where is the discussion there?
The discussion comes after the list is formulated. See every television countdown show ever. It's the same sort of thing. Plus people can debate numbers given to certain categories. Like "Hogan as a two? Are you crazy? He was great in Japan & had those matches with Wrestler X & Wrestler Y!" or whatever.

So you would have

Johnny Jobbers ratings
Wrestling Forum Average Consensus (which would be hard numbers of the overall opinion of the users that participate).

I mean, if you genuinely don't see how discussion can come from that, I don't know what to tell ya, man.

I'm sorry you care so much about drawing power, I guess? But you're in the minority.
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:32 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: Analyze This: Greatest of All Times

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Originally Posted by Walk-In View Post
The discussion comes after the list is formulated. See every television countdown show ever. It's the same sort of thing. Plus people can debate numbers given to certain categories. Like "Hogan as a two? Are you crazy? He was great in Japan & had those matches with Wrestler X & Wrestler Y!" or whatever.

So you would have

Johnny Jobbers ratings
Wrestling Forum Average Consensus (which would be hard numbers of the overall opinion of the users that participate).

I mean, if you genuinely don't see how discussion can come from that, I don't know what to tell ya, man.

I'm sorry you care so much about drawing power, I guess? But you're in the minority.
Being in the minority doesn't make it wrong. I view wrestling for what it is, a business. The most important thing in a business is making money. I feel like discussion for in-ring performance should be kept on a match discussion thread or just an entirely different thread.

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Old 11-17-2012, 07:38 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: Analyze This: Greatest of All Times

I feel like you just want a different thread altogether. You don't want a "Who is the greatest of all-time" thread, you want a "who are the biggest draws in wrestling" thread. Two completely different things. Go make that thread, dude! People can talk about Hogan, Flair, Austin, Rock,, Hardy, etc. all day! Then you can even factor in inflation. Sounds like fun!
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:42 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: Analyze This: Greatest of All Times

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gorgeous One View Post
Because drawing power is more factual than in-ring performance. The GOAT threads on here are people arguing The Rock vs Austin because they look at it subjectively, I'm saying they are wrong for doing that. Obviously looking at it objectively takes a lot of time an research, but isn't that the whole point of evaluating something?

Of course the guys you mentioned should be considered, because they were massive draws, but you evaluate that. On the wrestling side? I wouldn't consider The Sheik a GOAT contender since comparatively speaking he didn't draw at levels of Hulk Hogan or El Santo. When looking at drawing power you look at drawing in terms of that market, whether it be Mexican, Japanese, American and compare them and also look at internationally, how they draw.
Drawing aside, I'm speaking on wrestling. Eventhough he was a massive draw in the 60s, can 1 really call Sheik GOAT when including his wrestling ability?

And again, when people discuss GOAT, they're going to be biased, at least on this site anyway. And again, I'm willing to bet my life that if you go to Japan or Mexico, fans there would likely have a different take on who the GOAT is because not everybody bases it on drawing power and they're not wrong for that. So because the market for wrestling in Mexico may not be the same as America or Japan, does that make the guy less of a draw? Wouldn't the economy play a role in that? Of course, a guy in the 90s would be a bigger draw than a guy in the 60s, the economy was so different. So, why base GOAT on something that could be easily affected by the state of that particular country/market?
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:48 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: Analyze This: Greatest of All Times

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Originally Posted by Walk-In View Post
I feel like you just want a different thread altogether. You don't want a "Who is the greatest of all-time" thread, you want a "who are the biggest draws in wrestling" thread. Two completely different things. Go make that thread, dude! People can talk about Hogan, Flair, Austin, Rock,, Hardy, etc. all day! Then you can even factor in inflation. Sounds like fun!
Maybe, you didn't take in what I said in the last few pages, but I'm arguing that drawing power is the main criteria in the greatest of all time. Btw, I can't believe you just put Hardy in the same sentence as those other guys.

Just get rid of in-ring performance in GOAT discussion, because that is what makes it subjective like yourself and El Chapo have been saying. Promo's are linked with drawing, for example Dusty Rhodes is known for talking people into the building. Impact is evaluating the effect said person had on wrestling, which again is linked with drawing. Longevity links with drawing as how long you stay at the top is usually based on drawing. And memorable feuds is part of the reason why guys become big draws, for example Hogan was elevated to that next level of drawing power due to his rivalry with Andre and Austin was brought to that next level due to his feud with McMahon.

Do you understand how the picture is being painted now?
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:51 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: Analyze This: Greatest of All Times

You want us to quit discussing something that the OP first mentioned?

In case you didn't read, he asked us our opinions of what the criteria is for discussing GOAT, which gives us that right to mention in ring performance. If you don't like that, maybe you should go join the GOAT discussion thread in General WWE.

All we're saying is that we don't feel drawing power should be a main basis on who was a draw and gave reasons why. Instead of you giving reasons why it should, you tell us to leave in ring performance out of it.

I don't think I'm going to continue this argument with you. Keep reading Observer and post your drawing power argument in the GOAT discussion thread. This thread is about the bigger picture, such as what we think GOAT should be based on and when & why did the emphasis on drawing power begin.

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Old 11-17-2012, 07:51 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: Analyze This: Greatest of All Times

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Originally Posted by The Gorgeous One View Post
Do you understand how the picture is being painted now?
Yes, perfectly. You want discussion for Greatest Wrestler to not include wrestling. That is your point.
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:51 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: Analyze This: Greatest of All Times

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Originally Posted by El Chapo View Post
Drawing aside, I'm speaking on wrestling. Eventhough he was a massive draw in the 60s, can 1 really call Sheik GOAT when including his wrestling ability?

And again, when people discuss GOAT, they're going to be biased, at least on this site anyway. And again, I'm willing to bet my life that if you go to Japan or Mexico, fans there would likely have a different take on who the GOAT is because not everybody bases it on drawing power and they're not wrong for that. So because the market for wrestling in Mexico may not be the same as America or Japan, does that make the guy less of a draw? Wouldn't the economy play a role in that? Of course, a guy in the 90s would be a bigger draw than a guy in the 60s, the economy was so different. So, why base GOAT on something that could be easily affected by the state of that particular country/market?
I don't think you understand my argument. GOAT is biased because people view it subjectively. If people look at it more objectively then biased views wouldn't interfere. Of course the economy plays a role which I said earlier that comparing time periods is difficult, but I think you have to look at it comparatively speaking with people at the time and society as a whole.
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:51 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: Analyze This: Greatest of All Times

I'd add in 'Impact On The Business' as a factor.

For me, the GOAT is someone who has a mix of EVERYTHING. They are literally the perfect wrestler (or as close as you can get to perfect).

So I'm pretty happy to say the GOAT is Stone Cold Steve Austin, because he was a good enough wrestler, amazing character, excellent promos, he drew a lot of money and he had a big impact on the business.

However, just because I think he's the GOAT, doesn't make him my favourite wrestler. Shawn Michaels is my favourite because he ticks all of the boxes you mentioned, but he was never the draw that Austin,Hogan,Rock were.

So in short, yeah, I do think drawing is as important as any other factor when it comes to the criteria for GOAT because the GOAT has to be pretty much perfect in EVERY area.
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:55 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: Analyze This: Greatest of All Times

See, people must not be reading the OP. Because guys are constantly dropping names and making comparisons when the OP clearly said not to and we're looking at the bigger picture and the business in general.

I think I'm done with this thread. Some of you are better of in the GOAT discussion thread because you're completely missing the point of this one.
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