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post #41 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-22-2012, 06:59 PM
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Re: Shawn Michaels and Diesel

Originally Posted by El Chapo View Post
Also of note, WWE's potentially biggest heel of 1995, Bam Bam Bigelow, was also turned face not too long after WM 11. IIRC, he said in a shoot that it was the Kliq's idea.

Even in 1996, they never had a clear cut credible top heel besides Vader, who HBK completely buried. Even Sid was getting a mixed reaction from the crowd, as well as Stone Cold, because they displayed more of an attitude. And the result of all this was the shitty IYH PPV's from April to July, as well as the failed Ultimate Warrior run. I feel Brian Pillman could have been the perfect heel opponent for HBK in 1996 but the ankle injury put a stop to that.

Everything worked in HBK's favor after Nash & Hall left. He was defending the belt in second rate feuds and would bury anybody who was a threat to him. The only reason he ever dropped the belt to Sid was to get his hometown crowd behind him and garner a sell out for Royal Rumble 1997. But even that didn't go as planned. Once everything started picking up, he loses his smile again.
'Sigh' This was pretty much my strategy in my TEW 1995 game for stopping WCW getting ahead. Real Shame Pillman's ankle got messed up. He was an amazing athlete and really would've done well against Shawn.

On Topic, Never actually thought about Shawn not wanting Nash or Hall around as they always seemed legit best buds but I suppose HBK was a complete jackass at the time so maybe he was happy to be the Big Fish as it were

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post #42 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-22-2012, 09:57 PM
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Re: Shawn Michaels and Diesel

Originally Posted by dave 1981 View Post
As for Shawn Michaels only winning the WWE title back at The Royal Rumble just to get the hometown crowd behind him WWE arrange their PPV venues a long time in advance so would have most likely had the venue set a year beforehand and it wasn't until late 1996 some fans turned on Shawn Michaels and that was why WWE began pushing him as an edgier babyface. Look at any promos from Shawn Michaels from when he lost the WWE title through til he turned heel later on in that year and he had the whole "i don't care if you like me or not" attitude who stated he wasn't a role model and was being pushed as the catalyst of the edgy top babyface until Stone Cold Steve Austin smashed through.
According to Jim Cornette, the plan was for Shawn to work with Vader at Summerslam, Survivor Series and to have the blow off match at Royal Rumble. He also says the plan the whole time was for Shawn to drop the belt and win it back in his hometown, except it was supposed to be with Vader. WWE even lowered ticket prices, based on HBK winning the belt back in his hometown and hoped to sell out the 70,000 seat venue but they only sold around 47,000 tickets.

Basically, the plan as far back as the summer of 1996 was to build up to Vader/HBK at the Rumble, with some sort of "Rocky" like angle, with Jose Lothario in the role of Mickey. Vader was suppose to put Lothario out with a Vader Bomb to build up the rematch but HBK squashed that because he hated working with Vader. So yeah, according to Cornette, that was the whole reason Shawn was even supposed to drop the belt, to attempt to draw a sellout for the blow off in his hometown.

According to DVD reviews I've read, HBK was getting mixed reactions as far back as King Of The Ring 1996. It just wasn't until Survivor Series that they turned to majority boos but we all know how NYC crowds are. But, I don't know. Maybe it was from feuding with Owen & Bulldog and fans really didn't care for it, maybe it was because they got tired of Shawn already. But yeah, early plans were for the "Rocky" angle, HBK dropping the belt to Vader at Survivor Series and Lothario getting injured by Vader, rematch at Royal Rumble 1997 and Bret/HBK at WM 13 with Bret winning the belt. Big problem was HBK didn't care much for Lothario, Vader was too stiff and he hated Bret at this point because he felt Bret was going to take his spot and he didn't want to put him over.
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post #43 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-25-2012, 08:31 AM
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Re: Shawn Michaels and Diesel

Originally Posted by El Chapo View Post
Damn, why must you triple post?

Okay because HBK said he would have loved to work with his buddies, I should just accept that and not have my own opinion, right? You right, I never watched the DVD because from the reviews, why bother hearing 2 guys tell the same story a different way for the 50th time.

This is all my opinion, so don't come with what Shawn said on a DVD. He's my favorite of all time but I don't believe shit he says. He just was so sketchy back then that once you're saved by God, it's easy to paint yourself in a positive light. Guys like Nash & Hall won't speak against him because he was all about money. So everything they say must be true but when someone says something negative about either man, it's false because righteous Shawn told the story in his favor?

I'm sure, he probably did only want to work with Hunter, Scott Hall & Diesel. Because, that guranteed he wouldn't drop the belt. And at the same time, would hold back anybody who was against the Kliq. But at the same time, it wasn't like he was devastated that Hall, Nash and a few months later, Kid were leaving. The reason I have this opinion that Shawn didn't give a fuck about the other 5 members of the Kliq was based on the Curtain Call. Was that really a requirement for them to break kayfabe? Notice how Nash & Hall would face no punishment, Shawn was untouchable and that left Hunter to take all the heat. Which could have been avoided if he cared about his friends like he now claims he does.

And he hated dropping titles. Aside from Sid in 1996, for a period of 4 years, HBK would only cleanly lose a title to a member of the Kliq (Razor in 1994, HHH in 1997). So yeah, keep my buddies around and when it's time to drop the belt, nominate 1 of them to win it.

But when you look at 1995 & 1996 with Diesel and HBK as champion and look at the quality of challengers, it's obvious why many don't hold it in high regard. Diesel was a victim of circumstance and gets unjust criticism because of Shawn, who often convinced Diesel to why he should or shouldn't do something. But, by the time HBK won the belt, he already had heat with Bret. And at that point, Bret was close to jumping ship. And for the majority of 1996, HBK would have it easy. No way he was dropping to Bret's brother and brother in law. And he whined about Vader being too stiff. Considering what could have been, it's easy to say he rather have worked with Diesel & Hall, especially when nearly everybody else on the roster not named Hunter or PJ hated his guts. And thats because he whined, held people back and was only in business for himself. Hunter never got a rub from being Shawn's friend, it got him more trouble than anything. He had to fuck the bosses daughter to get power, while HBK only had to remain in Vince's ear, get people held back, fired or take it upon himself to make them quit (see Shane & Candido).
This is pretty much a lot of BS because Shawn kind of saved HHH's career. HHH faced 0 punishment for breaking kayfabe. His KOTR push got delayed 1 year & after months of jobbing he got more of a push than he would have ever got had he not been Shawn's friend.

HHH was a multiple time Main-Eventer way before he had anything to do with Steph. If had not been Shawn's friend he would probably be fired.

Originally Posted by El Chapo View Post
I never said Shawn wasn't fucking her. I said the problems between him and Bret stemmed from him accusing Bret of fucking her but in reality, Bulldog was fucking her.

She says this in her latest shoot with Feinstein and the Youshoot. She talks about hanging out in the Hart family house, knowing the family handshake & everything and Vince knowing about her relationship with Shawn, as they often used his lockerroom. She talks about being with HBK in the hotel 1 night in a room that was next to the room her & Chris shared.

But yeah, she said the beef between Bret & Shawn was over her because Shawn thought Bret was fucking her but Bulldog was. And if any form of timing makes sense, this all occurred while she was still in a relationship with Chris.
These guys are on the road 350 days a year. If Shawn's supposed girl would be secretly be paying a visit to his arch-rival whom Shawn hates, the same arch-rival who was going through a rough time with his wife leading up to a divorce and if he would be baby-sitting the kids of this arch-rival then its natural Shawn would be jealous

Last edited by Mr.S; 11-25-2012 at 08:35 AM.
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