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Old 11-16-2012, 11:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
I知 selfish. The ultimate goal has always been for me all by myself to be # 1.
 
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Default Re: Shawn Michaels and Diesel

I have the Diesel 1995 Timeline shoot DVD, too. And I've seen alot of Nash shoots over the years. He left the WWF because Bischoff was offering him (and Hall) more money than Vince could at the time, and not only that, but *guaranteed* money. This was still at the time when Vince was only offering "opportunities" to the wrestlers. Meaning, the more the wrestler got over with the audience and more money he drew, the more money he would make. But if that wrestler didn't get over and didn't draw, than he would make very little.

With the guaranteed money Bischoff was able to offer Nash (Hall, and others), this meant that no matter how much or little each wrestler drew, they were still going to make a guaranteed amount of money (and since Bischoff had Ted Turner's money to play with, that guaranteed amount was always alot). So..

1). Nash, Hall, and others left because they were getting a guaranteed amount of money in WCW. No matter how much they got over (or how little), no matter how many PPVs they headlined (or didn't), and no matter how much money they made the company (or didn't) they were still guaranteed to get a huge sum of money. This was something Vince wasn't able to offer. He might have been able to offer it to 1 or 2 guys, but like Nash said Vince said to him, even if he did give it to 1 or 2 guys, the rest of the roster would obviously get wind of it and they would all want that, and that's just something he couldn't do.

2) Nash (Hall, and others) also left because in WCW they were only going to have to work half the amount of days they would have to work in the WWF. The WWF has somewhere between 270-300 shows a year at that point. WCW had somewhere between 150-200 shows per year at that point. That's alot less time on the road.

So, basically, Nash, Hall and anyone else who left the WWF for WCW during that time period got more money, all guaranteed, no matter how shitty they performed, and got to work half the amount of days they would have worked in the WWF. So, basically, what would you take? More money and less work or Less money and more work? You don't have to be a genius to figure that one out.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:52 PM   #12 (permalink)
I知 selfish. The ultimate goal has always been for me all by myself to be # 1.
 
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Default Re: Shawn Michaels and Diesel

Also, Shawn was very unhappy that both Hall and Nash were leaving for WCW. He wanted them to stay. Triple H has said this in a number of interviews I've read/heard over the years. Hell, he even said it on the HBK DVD. Obiviously, in 1997, he didn't like Bret. But he wanted his friends to stay. And even though the Undertaker wasn't in the clique, he respected 'Taker.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:55 PM   #13 (permalink)
Been there, done that, and got the T-shirt, son, and you're just doing reruns.
 
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Default Re: Shawn Michaels and Diesel

All you did was basically repeat what was already said and failed to add anything new to the discussion.

Red rep.



I still have my reasons to believe that HBK was glad Hall & Nash left. If you ask me, it was dissension at least between HBK & Nash, especially when Shawn got more money than Kevin for WM 11.

Fact is, Vince couldn't afford to pay them and everybody else guranteed money. Them leaving was the best thing for HBK's title reign, as it allowed him to reign supreme for the remainder of 1996. He had Vince wrapped around his finger. And when it came time to put someone else over, he loses his smile. Money makes friends split up. HBK would have left as well but wouldn't have gotten away with half the shit he did in WWE. To keep the buddy buddy angle going, of course he's going to say he didn't want them to leave.

But at the same time, he was because it allowed him to be the focus of the company, as 2 of Vince's top stars left within a 3 month period.

Yeah, he respected Taker but was also scared of him because Taker was one of few who wouldn't put up with Shawn's shit.

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Old 11-17-2012, 12:00 AM   #14 (permalink)
I知 selfish. The ultimate goal has always been for me all by myself to be # 1.
 
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Default Re: Shawn Michaels and Diesel

Not really. No one pointed out that he would be working alot less dates in WCW and also the fact that the money Nash would be making in WCW would be guaranteed, which is a big part of the reason any wrestler left the WWF for WCW at that time. You also made it sound like he was okay with Nash leaving because he wouldn't have to share the spotlight with him. False. Thank ya'.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:02 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Shawn Michaels and Diesel

No, he really didn't want Hall and Nash to leave. He was pissed that they were. They were his very few friends in the locker room, in a locker room that was against him outside of them. And don't even give me Triple H at that point in time. He was a mid-carder with a bad gimmick and was nowhere near marrying Stephanie.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:06 AM   #16 (permalink)
Been there, done that, and got the T-shirt, son, and you're just doing reruns.
 
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Default Re: Shawn Michaels and Diesel

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Originally Posted by ShowStopper '97 View Post
Not really. No one pointed out that he would be working alot less dates in WCW and also the fact that the money Nash would be making in WCW would be guaranteed, which is a big part of the reason any wrestler left the WWF for WCW at that time. You also made it sound like he was okay with Nash leaving because he wouldn't have to share the spotlight with him. False. Thank ya'.
I admit, I said nothing of the dates. But, I previously mentioned the guranteed money, as Hall informed Nash of it and Nash gave Vince the option to match it. Vince couldn't because business was down and if he did it for Nash, he would do it for everybody.

And I never factually said HBK was happy with Nash leaving. Read the post again, kid. I said IMO, that was what HBK wanted. That gave him the ability to reign atop WWE, especially when it was basically known at the same point that Bret & Nash were going to be leaving and that left HBK & Taker as the only main event guys, both babyfaces.

Unless your name is Kevin Nash or Shawn Michaels, you can't prove any of my opinions to be false. All you can do is repeat what they want you to know instead of forming your own opinion.


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Old 11-17-2012, 12:12 AM   #17 (permalink)
Been there, done that, and got the T-shirt, son, and you're just doing reruns.
 
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Default Re: Shawn Michaels and Diesel

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Originally Posted by ShowStopper '97 View Post
No, he really didn't want Hall and Nash to leave. He was pissed that they were. They were his very few friends in the locker room, in a locker room that was against him outside of them. And don't even give me Triple H at that point in time. He was a mid-carder with a bad gimmick and was nowhere near marrying Stephanie.
Because they had his back and helped him fuck over Bigelow, Candido, Shane Douglas, Jean Pierre Lafitte. But from a career standpoint, he would benefit greatly from them (particularly Nash) leaving.

IMO, every problem that WE knew of HBK being apart of back then was because of him. The heat started with Bret was because he thought Bret was fucking Tammy, who was still Candido's girl. But in reality, Bulldog was fucking her. Not to mention, he would bitch and complain everytime he was asked to put someone over. So, I wonder why his only friends where the guy he got a job that ended up slowing the momentum of Bret, his pill buddy and a kid they used for comedy when drunk?

Your whole post is screaming "this is what HBK would say" but the problem is, you're not HBK. You don't know what he was thinking and I don't either, which is why I always say "IMO".

Jesus.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:14 AM   #18 (permalink)
I知 selfish. The ultimate goal has always been for me all by myself to be # 1.
 
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Actually, it's pretty easy to prove he didn't want them to leave.

All you have to do is watch the Bret & Shawn Greatest Rivalries DVD from last year. In it, Bret tells a story of him and Shawn having a conversation pre-ironman match about what Shawn was going to do once when he won the title. Bret says that Shawn told him that he was going to work a program with Nash, Hall, and Triple H. If anything, he wanted to work with the clique, not away from them.

Hell, you could listen to an interview from pretty much anyone in the WWF at that time period, and they basically all say that, whether it be Shane Douglas or whoever from that time period. And I never intend to be a dick to anyone, unless they were to me first. And for some reason, you were. All I did was reply. You're welcome

What're you even talking about? Wow. Someone didn't watch the Bret/Shawn DVD from last year. You don't have to be Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, or Vince McMahon himself to know Shawn wanted to work with his buddies. All you have to be is someone who watched the DVD. He in no way wanted them to leave. Ever.

Oh, and after Bret told that story, Shawn himself said that he wanted to work with his buddies and take care of them. Straight from the horses mouth.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:53 AM   #19 (permalink)
Been there, done that, and got the T-shirt, son, and you're just doing reruns.
 
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Default Re: Shawn Michaels and Diesel

Damn, why must you triple post?

Okay because HBK said he would have loved to work with his buddies, I should just accept that and not have my own opinion, right? You right, I never watched the DVD because from the reviews, why bother hearing 2 guys tell the same story a different way for the 50th time.

This is all my opinion, so don't come with what Shawn said on a DVD. He's my favorite of all time but I don't believe shit he says. He just was so sketchy back then that once you're saved by God, it's easy to paint yourself in a positive light. Guys like Nash & Hall won't speak against him because he was all about money. So everything they say must be true but when someone says something negative about either man, it's false because righteous Shawn told the story in his favor?

I'm sure, he probably did only want to work with Hunter, Scott Hall & Diesel. Because, that guranteed he wouldn't drop the belt. And at the same time, would hold back anybody who was against the Kliq. But at the same time, it wasn't like he was devastated that Hall, Nash and a few months later, Kid were leaving. The reason I have this opinion that Shawn didn't give a fuck about the other 5 members of the Kliq was based on the Curtain Call. Was that really a requirement for them to break kayfabe? Notice how Nash & Hall would face no punishment, Shawn was untouchable and that left Hunter to take all the heat. Which could have been avoided if he cared about his friends like he now claims he does.

And he hated dropping titles. Aside from Sid in 1996, for a period of 4 years, HBK would only cleanly lose a title to a member of the Kliq (Razor in 1994, HHH in 1997). So yeah, keep my buddies around and when it's time to drop the belt, nominate 1 of them to win it.

But when you look at 1995 & 1996 with Diesel and HBK as champion and look at the quality of challengers, it's obvious why many don't hold it in high regard. Diesel was a victim of circumstance and gets unjust criticism because of Shawn, who often convinced Diesel to why he should or shouldn't do something. But, by the time HBK won the belt, he already had heat with Bret. And at that point, Bret was close to jumping ship. And for the majority of 1996, HBK would have it easy. No way he was dropping to Bret's brother and brother in law. And he whined about Vader being too stiff. Considering what could have been, it's easy to say he rather have worked with Diesel & Hall, especially when nearly everybody else on the roster not named Hunter or PJ hated his guts. And thats because he whined, held people back and was only in business for himself. Hunter never got a rub from being Shawn's friend, it got him more trouble than anything. He had to fuck the bosses daughter to get power, while HBK only had to remain in Vince's ear, get people held back, fired or take it upon himself to make them quit (see Shane & Candido).
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:09 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Shawn Michaels and Diesel

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Originally Posted by El Chapo View Post
Because they had his back and helped him fuck over Bigelow, Candido, Shane Douglas, Jean Pierre Lafitte. But from a career standpoint, he would benefit greatly from them (particularly Nash) leaving.

IMO, every problem that WE knew of HBK being apart of back then was because of him. The heat started with Bret was because he thought Bret was fucking Tammy, who was still Candido's girl. But in reality, Bulldog was fucking her. Not to mention, he would bitch and complain everytime he was asked to put someone over. So, I wonder why his only friends where the guy he got a job that ended up slowing the momentum of Bret, his pill buddy and a kid they used for comedy when drunk?

Your whole post is screaming "this is what HBK would say" but the problem is, you're not HBK. You don't know what he was thinking and I don't either, which is why I always say "IMO".

Jesus.
Wait. Hold up. What?

Where did you get that from?

From what I've read, Shawn was in a relationship with Tammy for like 8 months
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