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Old 10-16-2012, 03:23 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Analyze this: "Underrating" Power wrestlers

Malla-Yuddha, the ancient south Indian and one of the original form of wrestling classifies wrestlers based on their style and earlier, students were said to have been segregated by their physical attributes into one of the 4 schools, namely as Hanumanti (Technical school) Jambavati (Hooking/submission school) Jarasandhi (Joint and limb breakage/extension school) and finally Bhimaseni (purely power and strength). The original names are names of Gods/Kings who specialized in that form of wrestling as per mythology/history.

These schools were treated equally and respected all the same. Cut and Zoom to the present day, the power wrestler is always critiqued and mocked for having a limited move set which usually involves some form of lifting the opponent over the head and few other devastating moves. But, isn't that the idea of being a power wrestler? He has the power and size that a guy like Benoit and Bryan lack for which they compensate with a variety of moves using their size and speed. With the power, all he should be needing is a few moves to finish a opponent. How would one classify Goldberg as a power wrestler and sell being a beast if he fights with a lower mid-carder for twenty minutes using various forms of head locks, arm locks and heel hooks?

Why and when did this bashing of power wrestler started in pro-wrestling and the importance of technical style of wrestling get so high as per you? Do you think it is fair to the power wrestler and who is your favorite power wrestler?
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:18 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Analyze this: "Underrating" Power wrestlers

OP, I've really become a fan of your threads. You seem to put thought into what you post and always make for good discussions. Keep up the good work.

As for your question, it seemed to me that the technical style of wrestling really started to gain importance in America in the mid 90s with ECW. At that time and for a few years before, wrestling thrived off the traditional "David vs. Goliath" story, as well as being more focused on the larger than life entertainment aspect. However, early WCW and NWA days also saw a focus on technical wrestling, just not to the level of ECW and other smaller indy companies would years later.

Basically, it appears that many fans grew tired of the same formula that has been wrestling for so many years OR a new wave of fans quickly lost interest and through exposure to various small indies and international events by way of tape trading, wanted a change that saw technical wrestlers be given more importance than the power wrestlers. Guys like Bret Hart & Dynamite Kid had worked the style for years but were limited at the time in WWE. Also, going back to the mid 90s, the typical physique of a "power wrestler" often gave the impression of him being a "juicer", which further made the business sway away from it after the steroid scandal. That and the rise of technical wrestling in smaller promotions led to the business heading in that direction.

I think it's unfair to bash a "power wrestler" based on his technical limitations, mainly because "power wrestling" was a mainstay of wrestling likely before our time. It provided interest, with a heel power wrestler dominating a smaller babyface, who mounts a comeback and gets the win. IMO, it made the win even bigger, as going into the match, you would have doubts about the smaller babyface winning. With the rise of technical wrestling, it makes guys look more equal, which I think takes away from the climax and a potential big moment.

My favorite power wrestler would probably be Vader, although I'm iffy about considering him strictly a power wrestler because of his agility. He was 1 of the few who could keep up with the smaller wrestlers, often adding his agility to his advantage to mix with his power and make for a devastating combination.
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:31 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Analyze this: "Underrating" Power wrestlers

I think power workers like Sheamus, Cena and Henry get shat on by a lot of the internet because they believe in this myth that 'technical workers > all'. That's why wrestlers like Shelton Benjamin and Jack Swagger are all seen as good wrestlers in the eyes of your typical internet fan. When in reality, they really aren't that good. There's more to wrestling than having a legit amateur wrestling background. They are there to craft stories with their bodies and not to mindlessly knock out a few suplexes. Power and brawling styles may not be as pretty and flashy as technical and high-flying styles but that doesn't mean that it can't be better.
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:57 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Analyze this: "Underrating" Power wrestlers

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Originally Posted by El Chapo View Post
OP, I've really become a fan of your threads. You seem to put thought into what you post and always make for good discussions. Keep up the good work.

As for your question, it seemed to me that the technical style of wrestling really started to gain importance in America in the mid 90s with ECW. At that time and for a few years before, wrestling thrived off the traditional "David vs. Goliath" story, as well as being more focused on the larger than life entertainment aspect. However, early WCW and NWA days also saw a focus on technical wrestling, just not to the level of ECW and other smaller indy companies would years later.

Basically, it appears that many fans grew tired of the same formula that has been wrestling for so many years OR a new wave of fans quickly lost interest and through exposure to various small indies and international events by way of tape trading, wanted a change that saw technical wrestlers be given more importance than the power wrestlers. Guys like Bret Hart & Dynamite Kid had worked the style for years but were limited at the time in WWE. Also, going back to the mid 90s, the typical physique of a "power wrestler" often gave the impression of him being a "juicer", which further made the business sway away from it after the steroid scandal. That and the rise of technical wrestling in smaller promotions led to the business heading in that direction.

I think it's unfair to bash a "power wrestler" based on his technical limitations, mainly because "power wrestling" was a mainstay of wrestling likely before our time. It provided interest, with a heel power wrestler dominating a smaller babyface, who mounts a comeback and gets the win. IMO, it made the win even bigger, as going into the match, you would have doubts about the smaller babyface winning. With the rise of technical wrestling, it makes guys look more equal, which I think takes away from the climax and a potential big moment.

My favorite power wrestler would probably be Vader, although I'm iffy about considering him strictly a power wrestler because of his agility. He was 1 of the few who could keep up with the smaller wrestlers, often adding his agility to his advantage to mix with his power and make for a devastating combination.
Thank you for your compliments. Basically, the first point I guess contributed more and it all started with Hogan if I am not wrong for Hogan not going over clean and getting win after win over bigger guys like Andre, Earthquake made the whole thing lose it's value. When they found guys like Hart giving them what Hogan could never, i think they started taking out on power wrestlers. But it is sad for without the David Goliath power based story which made Wrestlmania so big with the impossible body slam, it became more about the maneuver which unfortunately both guys can execute. Say for example, the story of HBK vs Hart if and when they exchanged sharpshooter in matches, the matches were entertaining and big but never as huge as the impossible body slam for it was a move both guys were equally capable of using. It however was recreated a little when Brock/Big Show feud was going.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactus View Post
I think power workers like Sheamus, Cena and Henry get shat on by a lot of the internet because they believe in this myth that 'technical workers > all'. That's why wrestlers like Shelton Benjamin and Jack Swagger are all seen as good wrestlers in the eyes of your typical internet fan. When in reality, they really aren't that good. There's more to wrestling than having a legit amateur wrestling background. They are there to craft stories with their bodies and not to mindlessly knock out a few suplexes. Power and brawling styles may not be as pretty and flashy as technical and high-flying styles but that doesn't mean that it can't be better.
Amen. It is also a unique style and in most cases, the brawler seems to be able to get away with it be it Austin or Funk but the power guy always gets hit for using it. Using one's natural/acquired talent and skill in a match should have been the same as using one's natural/acquired power and size but since the former is flashier and the latter gimmick is overused, it has lost it's importance and more importantly, Respect.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:45 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Analyze this: "Underrating" Power wrestlers

At least on-line, a lot of it has to do with internet fans that think they know everything not being aware that they're completely oblivious to ring psychology. The Big Show throwing a dropkick from the top rope, as an example, would not make any sense. If you have a 7', 500lbs guy doing the same shit that the 5'7", 180lb guys are doing, why would you still pay for the little guys? Why not have that giant do things that those little guys CAN'T do, like exploit his size & strength. Paul London wouldn't be very credible if he used the WMD as a finish, for an example.

A lot of it is storytelling too, which again is lost on some fans, even at it's most basic level. How hard is it to do the David Vs. Goliath story in a ring? Not very. But you see a babyface run away from a monster heel & the fans call him a pussy. You see the monster heel lumber after the quicker babyface & they call him boring. They don't get it, at all. Then they get on their computer to tell us all about how the match was a DUD and the big guy can't work. I call this Kevin Nash Syndrome.

Moves come up a lot too, but it's not what moves you have, or how many, it's how you incorporate those into your match so that it all makes sense & helps to garner emotional reactions from the paying audience. To go along with what Cactus said, it's a big reason why Kurt Angle is so praised as a good worker. It's because most fans don't know what a good worker is & think there's only one formula for success. Who cares if you can't sell, aren't telling a story in any of your matches, your match doesn't make any sense & you just want to get all of your shit in so you can look better. If you pop-up from a big move, hit ten suplexes and kick-out of five finishers every match, suddenly you're a top ten worker of all-time~! Lemme do these rolling German Suplexes, so I can kill the German Suplex move, then a Moonsault cause fuck it it'll pop the crowd, then after dropping you on your neck/back twenty times, I'll go for an ankle lock because I'm a technical wrestling genius ring psychologist!

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Old 10-16-2012, 12:48 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Analyze this: "Underrating" Power wrestlers

the best way to rate power wrestlers that aren't brock lesnar is when they are in a tag team

power wrestlings tend to leave cardio out of their training and spend most of the time prodding around stomping holding and clubbing just to drag the match out

in a lot of tag teams with at least one power wrestler that problem is at time negated with the partner taking up the slack

lod, kronik, brothers of destruction, Kane/Big Show, British Bulldogs, steiners, Demolition

the only thing more dominant than a unstoppable wtrestler is two unstoppable wrestlers, so a powerhouse tag team as champs is way more beliveable than most world title wins throughout the ages, poor big show...

though i wouldn't object seeing Khali squash everyone as the wwe champion if WWe wanted to be completely realistic

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Old 10-16-2012, 03:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Analyze this: "Underrating" Power wrestlers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactus View Post
I think power workers like Sheamus, Cena and Henry get shat on by a lot of the internet because they believe in this myth that 'technical workers > all'. That's why wrestlers like Shelton Benjamin and Jack Swagger are all seen as good wrestlers in the eyes of your typical internet fan. When in reality, they really aren't that good. There's more to wrestling than having a legit amateur wrestling background. They are there to craft stories with their bodies and not to mindlessly knock out a few suplexes. Power and brawling styles may not be as pretty and flashy as technical and high-flying styles but that doesn't mean that it can't be better.
power workers??? perhaps in today's standards...
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Old 10-16-2012, 05:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
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power workers??? perhaps in today's standards...
Well, who's a power worker then?
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Old 10-16-2012, 06:01 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Analyze this: "Underrating" Power wrestlers

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Well, who's a power worker then?
The Warlord, Ryback, Rob Terry, Goldberg, Brock Lesnar, Big E. Langston...
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:55 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Analyze this: "Underrating" Power wrestlers

I think power wrestlers can be great. The problem is that 7" tall, 300 lb. men don't tend to be quick, agile or have a great amount of stamina.

I think the biggest exceptions are The Undertaker and Vader who are great workers by any metric.
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