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Old 09-06-2012, 09:33 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default No ECW, no Attitude Era...

Over the last few months I have seen plenty of "Attitude" Era threads, but no one really seems to point out how much of an impact ECW, and better yet Paul Heyman's brains for the type of innovative things that he was able to do. I'm not talking about the blood, barbed wire, or table matches that they had. The characters basically touched base with much of the fan base. There were distinct characters, and heart felt rivalries. The Dreamer/Raven feud is easily one of the better wrestling stories ever told. The Sandman eye incident is another great story that proved how tough this man was. Very similar to the Stone Cold busted lip in KOTR.

I'm not saying Paul was responsible for The Rock, Austin, Jericho, Taker, NAO, HHH, HBK, etc. However, he helped provide the type of atmosphere that wrestling "should be" taking. They (ECW) were small time pioneers, and I believe it would have completely changed the course of professional wrestling had Heyman never launched Extreme Championship Wrestling. When ECW had stars like RVD, Sabu, Impact Players, The Triple Threat, Taz, Jerry Lynn, Rhyno, and many others they were putting on more exciting wrestling matches at a time when the WWF was still playing to characters like Doink, or Crush, The Patriot, and many child like stars. ECW was the beginning of the Attitude Era. Anyone else agree?
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:40 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: No ECW, no Attitude Era...

I feel the same way. It's common knowledge that both companies got several ideas off what ECW was doing. But, when you brought up the Austin/busted lip angle at KOTR, it didn't remind me of Sandman, it reminded me more of Dreamer getting his fingers broken but still competing.

But yeah, ECW was already headed in that direction a few years before WWE took the chance. If anything, compare the Bret Hart shoot (upset about being screwed out of the title/Royal Rumble) to the many Taz shoots (upset about Sabu returning to open arms, despite turning his back on the company). Look at the Sandman/Austin characters, 2 drunks who were kicking everybody's ass.

Not saying WWE blatantly copied ECW, as the AE was great but it's obvious where they got many of those ideas from.
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Old 09-06-2012, 10:32 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: No ECW, no Attitude Era...

I have to agree. As Paul Heyman likes to remind us when Doink was prancing around the ring Steve Austin was drinking his first beer in ECW.
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Old 09-06-2012, 10:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: No ECW, no Attitude Era...

REALTALK. E C DUB! E C DUB!
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:08 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: No ECW, no Attitude Era...

Austin was basically Sandman rip-off, but Vince Mcmahon knew how to take that international.

Vince Mcmahon is the true genius, not Paul E.
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:10 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: No ECW, no Attitude Era...

at the end of the day, no one can really say for sure that without ECW the AE never would have happened. At some point or another, WCW or WWF would have had to push the envelope so they could win the monday night wars. Back in the late 90's, the world wasnt so obsessed with not offending people, and was able to enjoy edgy content and stuff that pushed the envelope. It might not have happened as quickly, but eventually one of the two major promotions would have pushed their boundaries.

And let's not be so quick to think that ECW was the only promotion at the time who had an "extreme" aspect to their business. They just happened to be based in a wrestling hotbed with a cult following. But there were PLENTY of promotions on the circuit that had extreme aspects to their matches, sometimes even more hardcore than what ECW was peddling to their fans.
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:33 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: No ECW, no Attitude Era...

Didn't Bischoff get the idea of the NWO from Japan? Who's to say that without ECW, the NWO storyline wouldn't have happened, forcing the WWF to compete with risky TV?
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:05 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: No ECW, no Attitude Era...

Time out guys, I think the point could easily be made that without Paul Haymen cutting his teeth in the southern territories ECW would not have had some of its great angles and storytelling.

I am not discrediting ECW and what Paul did, and I do believe in many ways the WWE copied the ECW. However any long time wrestling fan will tell you that most great movements in wrestling were inspired by another.

AS much as people love to give credit to Paul for so much innovation, the southern terrtories made their mark by pushing storylines with weekly cliffhangers. In many respects ECW weekly televison looked and played out alot like the southern studio shows. Many people in other parts of the country were not exposed to the "southern style". They were used to WWF, AWA and other shows which focused on squash matches and had very few run ins and plot twist. Those Mid-western and Northeastern promotions basically highlighted stars, the southern territories promoted rivalries. Just like the ECW you could expect mayhem every week on shows in Florida, San Antonio, New Orleans, and Memphis.

The op is certainly right, but "there truly is nothing new under the sun" and I do think Heyman gets way too much credit for creating a style that exsisted long before he broke into the biz.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:08 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: No ECW, no Attitude Era...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggler Mark View Post
at the end of the day, no one can really say for sure that without ECW the AE never would have happened. At some point or another, WCW or WWF would have had to push the envelope so they could win the monday night wars. Back in the late 90's, the world wasnt so obsessed with not offending people, and was able to enjoy edgy content and stuff that pushed the envelope. It might not have happened as quickly, but eventually one of the two major promotions would have pushed their boundaries.

And let's not be so quick to think that ECW was the only promotion at the time who had an "extreme" aspect to their business. They just happened to be based in a wrestling hotbed with a cult following. But there were PLENTY of promotions on the circuit that had extreme aspects to their matches, sometimes even more hardcore than what ECW was peddling to their fans.
Great post, did not read this till after I posted
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Old 09-07-2012, 09:03 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: No ECW, no Attitude Era...

WWE and WCW effectively innadvetrtantly used ECW to do market research. In WWE's case they saw how the hardcore elements were getting over so adopted some similar ideas. With WCW it was slightly different, they saw how the high flying luchadores were getting over and respected and developed that into their regular programming.

Both companies owe a lot to ECW, mainly Paul Heyman. Give that man enough backing and he'll take any wrestling company skyward.
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