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Old 08-07-2012, 12:48 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Questions about The Rock's career

I have three major questions about him.

1) I don't think I've seen a top guy change between heel and face so many times. We talk about how much of gamble it would be to turn Cena, but The Rock seemed to do it many times in his prime.

2) Why did he always have short reigns. I don't think a top guy has been so unprotected. He got his ass kicked many of times.

3) He's beaten Hogan, Austin and Cena but what's his real record against top guys? I know he lost convincingly to both Brock and Goldberg.
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:33 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Questions about The Rock's career.

1) . . As a main eventer he turned the following times:
.
Heel – Nov 98
Face – April 99
Heel – Jan 03
Face – March 04
.
That’s not many during a 5 year period. Even as a Heel he would get cheers, although there were matches where he was booed as a face (vs Austin, Jericho, Hogan, Flair & Brock).
.
2) . . It wasn’t just The Rock. In 99 – 2000 everyone had short reigns, the title changed hands a lot. Even Austin only got two March – May and June – August in 99. If you’re over enough you don’t really need a long run, especially as a Face.
.
But you're right he was not as protected as other top guys have been but I don't think he needed nor wanted to be. 99 was the best example of this: I remember him getting choke slammed through a table then pinned with one foot by Big Show. Would also get beat down in brawls by DX, Dudleys, Corporation etc until Austin, Taker, Mankind, Kane or whoever made the save. He even once got pinned after an X-PAC spinning heel kick lol. His only singles PPV pin fall victories were over Billy Gunn (Summerslam) and Bulldog (No Mercy). Other wins were in the I quit rumble match and DQ's over HHH at over the edge and Outlaws at Armageddon. He got pinned twice by HHH, twice by Austin and once by Taker on PPV that year.

3) . . The only guys that beat him and he didn’t get the win back are Brock, Goldberg and Hurricane (I think lol). Except for them and HBK, who he never wrestled, he’s beaten anyone who was a main eventer during 98 – 03 at least once on PPV: Austin, Hogan, HHH, Taker, Angle, Kane, Mankind, Jericho, Big Show, Benoit, Booker T. Also beat guys like Flair, Guerrero, Shamrock, Edge, RVD on Raw/ SD etc.
.
Actually, I don’t think he beat Kane or Show one on one on PPV but I know he has more wins over them than vice versa. Also although he only beat Stone Cold one on one once he did beat him clean. Austin never beat Rock clean even back in 99.

Also has the legacy enhancing win over Cena obviously.
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:39 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Questions about The Rock's career.

The short reigns an be atributed the amount of top guys around during that period if could easil be carried by Rock, Austin, HHH, Taker, Kane, even Mankind and their was little effect on company income as they were all top draws at that time to a certain extent.
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:44 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Questions about The Rock's career.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninealevyn View Post
I have three major questions about him.

1) I don't think I've seen a top guy change between heel and face so many times. We talk about how much of gamble it would be to turn Cena, but The Rock seemed to do it many times in his prime.

2) Why did he always have short reigns. I don't think a top guy has been so unprotected. He got his ass kicked many of times.

3) He's beaten Hogan, Austin and Cena but what's his real record against top guys? I know he lost convincingly to both Brock and Goldberg.
2. He didn't really need the belt to be one of the top guys in the company, he could be messing around in a temporary tag team like The Rock 'n' Sock and still be drawing one of the largest audiences in Raw history. Plus unlike certain other guys such as Hogan, Austin and HHH, The Rock was fairly liberal with jobbing to up and comers to get them over, he was pretty good to the other wrestlers. This is a guy that has a loss to the Hurricane on his record! His character never relied on being unbeaten, a one man wrecking machine or anything like that, it was just based on personality, so could survive not being champion. A random example was The Rock's program with Jericho through the latter half of 01 and beginning of 02. If you read Jericho's book, you'll see The Rock really pushed for Jericho to be booked well and really worked hard to make Jericho look gold and Jericho did. Contrast this with HHH, who although always putting on great matches with Jericho, has always looked to bury him instead of getting him over.

3.With both Brock and Goldberg he was on his way out and jobbed to them to get them over, like I said above. Everyone seems to think he has an awful record against Austin but ignoring RAW/Smackdown, they're 2-2, Austin has WM15 and 17, The Rock has WM19 and the Survivor Series Winner Takes All Match. Against HHH he has a pretty bad record but that's partly political and partly a case that the 2000 storyline called for The Rock to always be on the backfoot and chasing the title. The Rock vs Jericho tilts more to Jericho, The Rock has plenty of wins on TV shows but Chris won at No Mercy 2001, Vengeance 2001 and Royal Rumble 2002. Which is a pretty impressive run, which shows just how much The Rock worked to put certain guys over...then Jericho ran into HHH, who buried him completely at WM and The Rock's work was wasted as Jericho went back to mid card.
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:50 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Questions about The Rock's career.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyMay View Post
1) . . As a main eventer he turned the following times:
.
Heel – Nov 98
Face – April 99
Heel – Jan 03
Face – March 04
.
That’s not many during a 5 year period. Even as a Heel he would get cheers, although there were matches where he was booed as a face (vs Austin, Jericho, Hogan, Flair & Brock).
.
2) . . It wasn’t just The Rock. In 99 – 2000 everyone had short reigns, the title changed hands a lot. Even Austin only got two March – May and June – August in 99. If you’re over enough you don’t really need a long run, especially as a Face.
.
But you're right he was not as protected as other top guys have been but I don't think he needed nor wanted to be. 99 was the best example of this: I remember him getting choke slammed through a table then pinned with one foot by Big Show. Would also get beat down in brawls by DX, Dudleys, Corporation etc until Austin, Taker, Mankind, Kane or whoever made the save. He even once got pinned after an X-PAC spinning heel kick lol. His only singles PPV pin fall victories were over Billy Gunn (Summerslam) and Bulldog (No Mercy). Other wins were in the I quit rumble match and DQ's over HHH at over the edge and Outlaws at Armageddon. He got pinned twice by HHH, twice by Austin and once by Taker on PPV that year.

3) . . The only guys that beat him and he didn’t get the win back are Brock, Goldberg and Hurricane (I think lol). Except for them and HBK, who he never wrestled, he’s beaten anyone who was a main eventer during 98 – 03 at least once on PPV: Austin, Hogan, HHH, Taker, Angle, Kane, Mankind, Jericho, Big Show, Benoit, Booker T. Also beat guys like Flair, Guerrero, Shamrock, Edge, RVD on Raw/ SD etc.
.
Actually, I don’t think he beat Kane or Show one on one on PPV but I know he has more wins over them than vice versa. Also although he only beat Stone Cold one on one once he did beat him clean. Austin never beat Rock clean even back in 99.

Also has the legacy enhancing win over Cena obviously.
Sums it up perfectly.

A few little mistakes: Rock turned back face in May 03 on the Highlight Reel not in March 04. Also Austin beat Rock clean at Mania 15. But when you really think about it, Rock was protected a lot. Take 99 for example, every loss except Mania was a screwjob. Even as a heel he was protected, losing to HHH, Foley and Austin only after screwjob finishes.
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:54 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Questions about The Rock's career.

Why don't you ask the man himself?
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:36 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Questions about The Rock's career.

Quote:
Originally Posted by murder View Post
Sums it up perfectly.

A few little mistakes: Rock turned back face in May 03 on the Highlight Reel not in March 04. Also Austin beat Rock clean at Mania 15. But when you really think about it, Rock was protected a lot. Take 99 for example, every loss except Mania was a screwjob. Even as a heel he was protected, losing to HHH, Foley and Austin only after screwjob finishes.
Ah right. For some reason I thought that was in 04.

Yeah you're right about the finishes. Taker beat him after HHH interfered, Austin at Backlash after Shane interfered and HHH at FL after Gunn interfered. Can't remember what lead to HHH pinning him at the end of the Unforgiven 6 pack match.

Mania 15, didn't Vince accidentally hit him or something? I know Mankind made the 3 count, I seem to remember some fuckrey involved, was a long time ago though. I was 11 😳
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:44 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Questions about The Rock's career.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Ding Dong View Post
2. He didn't really need the belt to be one of the top guys in the company, he could be messing around in a temporary tag team like The Rock 'n' Sock and still be drawing one of the largest audiences in Raw history. Plus unlike certain other guys such as Hogan, Austin and HHH, The Rock was fairly liberal with jobbing to up and comers to get them over, he was pretty good to the other wrestlers. This is a guy that has a loss to the Hurricane on his record! His character never relied on being unbeaten, a one man wrecking machine or anything like that, it was just based on personality, so could survive not being champion. A random example was The Rock's program with Jericho through the latter half of 01 and beginning of 02. If you read Jericho's book, you'll see The Rock really pushed for Jericho to be booked well and really worked hard to make Jericho look gold and Jericho did. Contrast this with HHH, who although always putting on great matches with Jericho, has always looked to bury him instead of getting him over.

3.With both Brock and Goldberg he was on his way out and jobbed to them to get them over, like I said above. Everyone seems to think he has an awful record against Austin but ignoring RAW/Smackdown, they're 2-2, Austin has WM15 and 17, The Rock has WM19 and the Survivor Series Winner Takes All Match. Against HHH he has a pretty bad record but that's partly political and partly a case that the 2000 storyline called for The Rock to always be on the backfoot and chasing the title. The Rock vs Jericho tilts more to Jericho, The Rock has plenty of wins on TV shows but Chris won at No Mercy 2001, Vengeance 2001 and Royal Rumble 2002. Which is a pretty impressive run, which shows just how much The Rock worked to put certain guys over...then Jericho ran into HHH, who buried him completely at WM and The Rock's work was wasted as Jericho went back to mid card.
All this too.

I've read before that there was friction between Rock and HHH's due to the latter's treatment of Jericho. Anyone read/ heard similar?

Also on the subject of protection you could argue that outside of Undertaker at Mania's and Mankind in general no one has ever looked as tough as Rock did when he kicked out of everything he did vs Austin at WM 17.
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Great answers guys, I'm on my phone, but once I get on the computer I'll rep you guys.

Anyone remember how he storyline turned heel and/or face?


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Old 08-07-2012, 02:50 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Questions about The Rock's career.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyMay View Post
All this too.

I've read before that there was friction between Rock and HHH's due to the latter's treatment of Jericho. Anyone read/ heard similar?

Also on the subject of protection you could argue that outside of Undertaker at Mania's and Mankind in general no one has ever looked as tough as Rock did when he kicked out of everything he did vs Austin at WM 17.
Wouldn't shock me - I think HHH was a little jealous of Rocky ...
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