Wrestling Forum banner

Who Was Wrong?

  • Vince McMahon

    Votes: 62 51.7%
  • Bret Hart

    Votes: 45 37.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 13 10.8%

The Montreal Incident

18K views 107 replies 63 participants last post by  Three Dog 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Who do you think? State why.

I know Shawn Michaels was an absolute dickhead back in the day. Bret Hart was too though. I can only imagine how much fun Vince had dealing with those two. Ha.

I think that far too many people are giving Vince the blame here, to be honest. I think it's 50/50.
 
#47 ·
Re: The Montreal Screwjob.. Who acted worse?

IMO going off what i can remember (its been a while since i watched Wrestling With Shadows & other vids/docs on the subject) it was all down to Bret.
He was told to drop the title & it was plain to see (in Vince's eyes) he was planning not to. You do what your boss tells you.
It makes no difference that HBK said he wouldn't drop the title to Bret or Austin, the fact is Vince had to do what was best for the WWE. Yes, he may not of done it the right way but his options were limited. He couldn't afford to have a repeat of previous events of watching WWE titles been thrown in the bin on a rival show.
I do feel sorry for Bret as his career went down hill after he left the WWE, but money talks.
I think i will watch the above mentioned docs & have a new opinion on the matter, if i do i will be sure to re-post.
 
#49 ·
Re: The Montreal Screwjob.. Who acted worse?

IMO going off what i can remember (its been a while since i watched Wrestling With Shadows & other vids/docs on the subject) it was all down to Bret.
He was told to drop the title & it was plain to see (in Vince's eyes) he was planning not to. You do what your boss tells you.
It makes no difference that HBK said he wouldn't drop the title to Bret or Austin, the fact is Vince had to do what was best for the WWE. Yes, he may not of done it the right way but his options were limited. He couldn't afford to have a repeat of previous events of watching WWE titles been thrown in the bin on a rival show.
I do feel sorry for Bret as his career went down hill after he left the WWE, but money talks.
I think i will watch the above mentioned docs & have a new opinion on the matter, if i do i will be sure to re-post.
As I have stated, there are a hundred other ways he could have handled it and chose by far the worst one. And this is a business with fake wrestling matches, fake stories and is full of characters that would not normally exist in everyday life. The fact that Vince chose to deal with it with REAL humiliation, REAL embarrassment and REAL betrayal makes it inexcusable.
 
#50 ·
Re: The Montreal Screwjob.. Who acted worse?

It seems a lot of people in this thread are forgetting the fact that Bret had creative control for the last 30 days of his contract, so legally he could do whatever he wanted. If he said he didn't want to drop the title to Shawn in Canada then that was well within his rights.

The creative control stipulation in his contract was something that Vince McMahon had himself agreed to. It was a dirty move for him to do what he did and the only reason anybody ever took Vince's side was because they wanted a job with the WWE/to keep their jobs or had it in for Bret.
 
#52 ·
Re: The Montreal Screwjob.. Who acted worse?

It seems a lot of people in this thread are forgetting the fact that Bret had creative control for the last 30 days of his contract, so legally he could do whatever he wanted. If he said he didn't want to drop the title to Shawn in Canada then that was well within his rights.

The creative control stipulation in his contract was something that Vince McMahon had himself agreed to. It was a dirty move for him to do what he did and the only reason anybody ever took Vince's side was because they wanted a job with the WWE/to keep their jobs or had it in for Bret.
If that is the case then somebody tell Bret to shut the fuck up about Hogan refusing to job to him because Hogan also had creative control.
 
#53 ·
Re: The Montreal Screwjob.. Who acted worse?

Vince acted worse , Plain and Simple. Bret said he would drop the strap the NEXT night on RAW. He just didn't want to do it in Canada. Oh did we mention that Bret didn't even have to work that night ? He could have stayed home and Vince could have done jack shit ? You know why ? Cause his contract only said he needed to work so many dates and Bret was WAY over that. Vince is worse here not Bret.
 
#55 ·
Re: The Montreal Screwjob.. Who acted worse?

@KO Bossy

So because Richter, Luger and Madusa worked for Vince for a short amount of time, they're excused?

You can say all you want about HBK saying he wouldn't return the favor but at the end of the day, he wasn't asked too. Bret was asked to drop the title, so regardless of what HBK said he wouldn't "hypothetically" do, Bret should have been the bigger man and say "fuck Shawn, I'm going to do whats right for business and do what the guy who made me a star asked of me". It's easy to justify your actions by claiming you did this because your opponent said he wouldn't do that but it still doesn't make it right.

And I'm not saying Bret is the only 1 to blame but wouldn't that embarrassment not have happened if Bret just did what was best for WWE? HBK refusing to job to Austin is irrelevant, anything after Survivor Series '97 is irrelevant to the screwjob, so there is no point in bringing it up.

And you may say Bret didn't deserve it and claim Vince should have trusted him. Why, because Bret was there for 13 years? When money is involved, nobody can be trusted.
 
#56 ·
Re: The Montreal Screwjob.. Who acted worse?

For me there are wrongs on both side but Bret was more wrong

Bret was an employee of the WWF, the WWF had given him everything he had and made him an international star, the only reason he got the lucrative offer from WCW was because of what he had done in the WWF. He was asked to do something by his boss, a boss who had taken a chance on him and made him the main attraction of his company and he refused to do it. Shawn Michaels was the star in the WWF in 1997 and the only guy who should have been holding the belt, Bret may not have liked him and Michaels may have been a dick backstage but that doesn't matter when it comes to business in the ring, the heat Michaels would have gotten from beating Bret clean in Canada would have been huge and really helped the company who made Bret.

What Vince did was wrong but he was left with no alternative by Bret who forgot who made him and let his ego get in the way of what is right for business. I laugh whenever Bret goes off on Hogan for using his creative control and not putting him over because if Bret had been allowed to have his way he would have done exactly the same to Michaels
 
#57 ·
Re: The Montreal Screwjob.. Who acted worse?

Yea, Bret was being a bitch and that's fine. Should've dropped the belt. But Vince should've grown a pair and done something about it other than the Screw-Job.

Bitch move by Bret.

Even bigger bitch move by Vince. And you all know he'd admit it too.
 
#65 ·
Re: The Montreal Screwjob.. Who acted worse?

I think Vince should have given Brett the option to lose the title at a house show or Raw the week before the PPV. Vince should not have had a bunch of crazy clauses written into Bretts contract to begin with. Brett should not have taken himself so seriously. He should have handled the situation differently. They were both in the wrong in my book.
 
#66 ·
Re: The Montreal Screwjob.. Who acted worse?

Vince breached the contract Bret signed with the WWE. According to various sources, Vince began to defer Bret´s payments indefinetely. He said that Bret could remain with the company and they would honor all the arrangements made, but his salary couldn´t be paid.

He should have negoatiated a new salary with Bret, but what did he do? He encouraged him to reopen negotiations with WCW. Bret could have taken Vince to court because his deferment of payment was a clear violation of the agreement that had been reached between them. He should have and could have won.
 
#68 ·
Are you saying creative control makes for a worse product.? You yourself just said there isn't anyone in the company today with that kind of control.

Coincidence that the product is fucking terrible and that there is no creative control by the workers? I think not

Sent from my HTC Evo
 
#69 ·
Re: The Montreal Screwjob.. Who acted worse?





Take a look at WCW 1998 and on and you see what I mean. Some wrestler's may control the assets of their character, but by total creative control is controlling everything about your character, even controlling if you win or lose. Let's say if Cena hate creative control of his character and he agrees to job to CM Punk, or Santino Marella. Then when match time comes, Cena changes his mind and says that he's going on. That's what I mean by creative control. Back in the attitude era, wrestlers could control their assets, but giving any wrestler complete control is asking for trouble, especially with all the egos involved in wrestling.
 
#70 ·
Re: The Montreal Screwjob.. Who acted worse?

I'm going to have to go with Shawn.

Bret may have been a bit of a baby, but he was justified in wanting to leave the company with dignity (and was within his contractual rights to do so).

Vince may have seemed like a selfish egomaniac, but he simply wanted what was best for business, and that's what you have to do in a capitalist society, unfortunately.

Shawn, on the other hand was just a complete cunt as well as a tool in this particular situation and had no justification for acting the way he did around this time in general.

...this is all assuming the "official" history is accurate.
 
#73 ·
Re: The Montreal Screwjob.. Who acted worse?

Vince and Shawn, no doubt. Vince shouldn't have offered a contract he could never honour. He totally overlooked Bret's creative control. Shawn, I think he's one of the best ever, but he was a prick, and it was HE who refused to job to Bret in the first place...so what, Bret is meant to bend over and take it in the arse from a guy like Shawn? Fuck no, Bret did what he felt was right, he stuck to his principles and was a hero for it. Sure it's all blown over now, 14 years on, but at the time Bret was and will always be right.
 
#75 ·
Re: The Montreal Screwjob.. Who acted worse?

Bret Hart was a paid employee, ordered to do something, and he refused. The entire mess would have never happened, had he just agreed to drop his fake championship belt in a fake match against his suitor, HBK.

The rest is just added weight to the situation.

Bret screwed Bret.
 
#84 ·
Re: The Montreal Screwjob.. Who acted worse?

Vince. Not for the final decision, but allowing both Bret and Shawn's egos push him around until he had no other option.



Exactly, Vince could have just veto'ed the entire match and find some way to write Bret Hart off. Wrestler's weren't afriad to go to Vince back then because they have other options. Today, wrestler's don't have that type of power to say "I want it my way or else." because it is Vince's way or the highway.
 
#78 ·
Re: The Montreal Screwjob.. Who acted worse?

Vince owned his company, gave Bret a platform to rise, and made him what he is.

The WWF title is a title that cannot be won, but is given to you by the owner who do give it so the one he thinks he can make the most money with. Bret Hard was an employer, and should have done what was told, and put personal feelings aside.

Vince was desperate in the war with WCW, and feared Bret going to that company with his belt. Also Vince need to step up and show and show everyone who runs the company and who the boss is. Not like WCW where Hogan, Flair, Nash, Hall etc ran around and dictated stuff.

Sure it was not a nice wthing to do to Bret. But hey, by allowing Bret to go to WCW, he allowed Bret to earn more money than he did in his entire life, and be financial set for life. Bret should've taken the offer and do what was best for his family and not to do what was best for his so called reputaion, just because he believed in his own hype, in a sport that is fake...
 
#79 ·
Re: The Montreal Screwjob.. Who acted worse?

Bret Hart revealed himself for what he is. He spat at McMahon before a huge PPV audience because he thought it was untenable for him, a Canadian, to lose the WWF title in Canada. When someone who's champ is about to leave the fed, he drops the title. But Hart wanted to drop it on Raw, the coming Monday. When he was tricked, he lost composure. After he'd gone, McMahon adopted a faux image of himself as "Mr McMahon", made up story lines between himself and Micheals, The Rock and Austin, while Hart got lost in the sea of talent at WCW. It was one of the best moves McMahon has made. He won the Monday Night Wars, Hart got injured and had to retire, the WWE bought WCW for 25 thousand dollars and owns the catalogue of video from the NWA, WCW, to the present.

(Y)
 
#85 ·
Re: The Montreal Screwjob.. Who acted worse?

Bret Hart revealed himself for what he is. He spat at McMahon before a huge PPV audience because he thought it was untenable for him, a Canadian, to lose the WWF title in Canada. When someone who's champ is about to leave the fed, he drops the title. But Hart wanted to drop it on Raw, the coming Monday. When he was tricked, he lost composure. After he'd gone, McMahon adopted a faux image of himself as "Mr McMahon", made up story lines between himself and Micheals, The Rock and Austin, while Hart got lost in the sea of talent at WCW. It was one of the best moves McMahon has made. He won the Monday Night Wars, Hart got injured and had to retire, the WWE bought WCW for 25 thousand dollars and owns the catalogue of video from the NWA, WCW, to the present.

(Y)
Think it was like 4 million bucks but whatever...
 
#80 ·
Re: The Montreal Screwjob.. Who acted worse?

Did everyone in this topic forget that Vince not only couldn't afford Bret's contract anymore, but that he also gave him creative control? That's...kind of big deal because it's not as simple as "Herp derp Vince wunted bret 2 job, but he sed no so Vince sed fuk u and did it neways."

So not only does Bret let Vince off the hook with his contract. Not only do they have a mutual agreement about him going to WCW because Vince couldn't pay him. And not only does he have creative control and had an agreement with his boss, and friend of 15 years..but fuck all of that, let's screw Bret and then wonder why he's pissed and blame it on him.

Could Bret have been more professional? Sure. But the fact is, he didn't have to and had no reason to given the situation and the people involved.
 
#81 ·
Re: The Montreal Screwjob.. Who acted worse?

People to this day sure lack the facts about the screwjob. Vince is in complete fault and let HHH and Shawn influence him. I just don't understand why Vince couldn't get Bret to sign a contract stating that he will not bring the title to Nitro if he was that paranoid.

Ultimately, the screwjob was great for Vince. The Mr. Mcmahon character was born. At the end of the day, Vince didn't see a future with Bret in the direction the company was headed. Bret did not like the direction the company was taking especially with the sexual storylines. At the end of the day, Vince won and has Hart's forgiveness. It's just sad how everything worked out for Bret.
 
#86 ·
Bret Hart's contract in late 1997?

i have brets book, and others seem misinformed but let me get this straight, correct me if im wrong

bret in 96 turned down wcw and signed 20 years with wwe

vince wanted out of it in mid 97 or fall of 97

bret wanted to stay and told vince forget about the money, but vince pushed him out the door even saying take wcw's offer

bret was still under contract for a few weeks after the screwjob, which is why he never showed up on nitro the next night

is this all fact, because some fans seem to think bret signed with wcw because he was greedy and he would of showed up on nitro, which is all wrong
 
#87 ·
Re: Bret Hart Contract in late 1997?

i have brets book, and others seem misinformed but let me get this straight, correct me if im wrong

bret in 96 turned down wcw and signed 20 years with wwe

vince wanted out of it in mid 97 or fall of 97

bret wanted to stay and told vince forget about the money, but vince pushed him out the door even saying take wcw's offer

bret was still under contract for a few weeks after the screwjob, which is why he never showed up on nitro the next night

is this all fact, because some fans seem to think bret signed with wcw because he was greedy and he would of showed up on nitro, which is all wrong
If it came from Bret's hart's Mouth then it's most likely a Lie..


hahaha

1. Declined WCW's offer to remain in a then-failing WWE (Really so either Bret's senile or Stupid.. oh i forgot he's both now)
2. Vince helping/encouraging Bret to explore his Options in WCW (sounds bull since if that was the case then Vince won't have had to screw Bret in the first place)
3. Bret still under contract for a few weeks after SSeries? even if that was the case, based on the scum Bret was, he would have showed up on Nitro regardless.

Hogan probably saw how whiny and self absorbed and bitter Bret was in his WWE Tenure and thus Buried him in 1993 (almost Rightfully so)

I also heard a BS that he came up with the ladder match (or at least had the idea to bring it to the WWF) and that shawn just took the idea.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top