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Old 11-20-2012, 12:54 AM   #81 (permalink)
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Default Re: Classic Wrestling General Discussion & Review Thread

Flair's best promo (and probably the greatest straight up interview ever) is his post Royal-Rumble 1992 victory speech featuring Bobby Heenan and Mr. Perfect. What a fucking PERFECT interview. Actually, come to think of it, the post WM VIII one is up there too ... HMMMMMMMM.


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Old 11-20-2012, 07:05 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Default Re: Classic Wrestling General Discussion & Review Thread



Just found this match while perusing youtube. I remember reading Bret's book when it first was released and reading a small paragraph dedicated to this match. Bret said he came up with a good finish for this match and Vince liked it. But when he told Flair, Ric told Bret what they were going to do, despite the fact that Bret was the champion at this point. Bret cut him off and dressed him down in front of several wrestlers. Flair, in shock, turned beet-red, sat on a bench and said, "You're the champion." Ever since reading that, I wanted to see the match, but completely forgot about it. Here it is on Youtube. Some thoughts:

1/9/93 Boston Garden

This was easily Flair's best WWF performance. I think it was perhaps the most logical Iron Man match I've ever seen. The armwork done by Flair here before the first fall is incredible. He really works Bret's arm expertly, and Bret sells it like a champ. Bret's attempts at countering with the figure four throughout the first fall is a nice tease. Towards the end of that, I thought he was eventually going to get a fall out of the sequence. The reverse roll-up to give Hart the first fall was "excellently executed."

After the first fall, Flair immediately targets the leg. Flair once again goes to work on a body part with some brutal looking kicks, just punishing the legs of the Hitman trying to soften him up for the figure four. Flair does just that, while holding onto the rope and gains a fall. Flair and Hart then do the same spot again, and Flair wins another fall, to put him up 2-1. Good psychology there by Flair.

Flair up 2-1 with 5 minutes remaining. Lots of drama and the crowd is into it. Hart finally gets Flair to submit to the Sharpshooter with just a few minutes left, to tie it up at 2. Bobby Heenan passes Flair a pair of brass knuckles and Flair clocks Hart with them. Hart kicks out of a nearfall that I thought he wasn't going to kick out of. That looked phenomenal. Great nearfall.

Still tied up at 2, but at about the 60 minute mark, Flair goes for the figure four once again, only to get rolled up by the Hitman for the victory. ****1/2

Easily the best Hart/Flair match ever. The Bret title win and their WCW match in '98 don't hold a candle to this one. Only minor complaint I can conjure up is Bret eventually stops selling the arm as much later in the match, but this is an Iron Man match. Some of the stuff they do is going to be to waste time. But even still, they did a great job of making every hold mean something. A classic.
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Old 11-21-2012, 04:18 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Default Re: Classic Wrestling General Discussion & Review Thread

Ive been looking for that match for ages, thanks mate!!!
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Old 11-22-2012, 08:10 AM   #84 (permalink)
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Default Re: Classic Wrestling General Discussion & Review Thread

Piece from the Observe when Austin was fired from WCW.

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WCW did fire Steve Austin (Steve Williams) on 9/15. Austin, 30, was considered for years as perhaps the best young wrestler in the United States. His career languished for the past year almost to the point that he was spoken of, like his former tag partner Brian Pillman, as a wrestler who had made a lot of money by signing good contracts but had great careers ruined by a WCW organization that had been both unwilling and unable to get any wrestlers over. Austin had been in the doghouse with WCW management over the past year over a reputation for not exactly keeping quiet with his discontent about how he was used and for those involved in cost cutting seeing the $200,000 or so figure he was earning per year while not being involved in any significant programs as wasted money. While on a tour with New Japan in June, Austin tore his tricep and has been out of action since and was believed to be about six weeks from being ready to return when he was fired. This of course paints WCW as a real class organization for firing a guy while injured when he suffered the injury on a tour the company sent him on.

Austin's main problem appeared to be in the cliquish nature of WCW (which is consistent not only in wrestling but in most jobs but worse in WCW than most places obviously). He didn't hang with the right crowd. When the Hogan camp got into power, they dismissed Austin as a highly-paid wrestler who was a good worker with no charisma and in their view of wrestling, workrate meant next to nothing. The Hogan clique basically consisted of WWFers from the mid-80s when wrestling was hot and thus, could dismiss any wrestler who came along later as being "unable to draw money" (forgetting that most of those who drew money in the mid-80s became suddenly unable to draw money either when the business lost popularity). He wasn't in the Flair clique either, so nobody spoke up for his workrate on the inside at the meetings. Austin was given little chance to show his stuff after the career ending back injury of his main opponent, Rick Steamboat. Austin then suffered a knee injury which kept him out for a few months, and before he was plugged into a new planned program, a reuniting of his tag team with Brian Pillman, he went to Japan and suffered the tricep tear.

It's unknown what Austin's plans will be once he's able to return to the ring, but he would be able to get a strong spot with ECW if he would want it since he's a long-time friend of Paul Heyman, although that would entail a major comedown in money. I don't know if he has any connections or has made any with All Japan, but if he wants to make a career out of Japan, that promotion and him almost seem tailor-made if he can learn that style and psychology. All Japan needs new foreign stars they can push and very few Americans have the ability to make it with that group and Austin potentially fits into that select group. Of course WWF is the most logical option. He probably could also return to WCW if he was willing to work for less money and a per night deal although I'm betting the nature of his dismissal which will almost certainly result in very bitter feelings will make that very difficult.

A few hours later, WCW and Gene Okerlund's agent Barry Bloom agreed verbally to a two-year contract which, with incentives, is more potentially lucrative than his previous deal which was said to have a $250,000 base. Okerlund's WCW contract had expired two days earlier and it was questionable if the deal hadn't been put together whether he would have appeared at the Fall Brawl PPV show. Naturally the timing of the Austin firing, particularly being fired while injured ala Steamboat, and the Okerlund raise didn't set well with several wrestlers within WCW for obvious reasons.

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Old 11-22-2012, 10:50 AM   #85 (permalink)
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Default Re: Classic Wrestling General Discussion & Review Thread

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Originally Posted by ShowStopper '97 View Post


Just found this match while perusing youtube. I remember reading Bret's book when it first was released and reading a small paragraph dedicated to this match. Bret said he came up with a good finish for this match and Vince liked it. But when he told Flair, Ric told Bret what they were going to do, despite the fact that Bret was the champion at this point. Bret cut him off and dressed him down in front of several wrestlers. Flair, in shock, turned beet-red, sat on a bench and said, "You're the champion." Ever since reading that, I wanted to see the match, but completely forgot about it. Here it is on Youtube. Some thoughts:

1/9/93 Boston Garden

This was easily Flair's best WWF performance. I think it was perhaps the most logical Iron Man match I've ever seen. The armwork done by Flair here before the first fall is incredible. He really works Bret's arm expertly, and Bret sells it like a champ. Bret's attempts at countering with the figure four throughout the first fall is a nice tease. Towards the end of that, I thought he was eventually going to get a fall out of the sequence. The reverse roll-up to give Hart the first fall was "excellently executed."

After the first fall, Flair immediately targets the leg. Flair once again goes to work on a body part with some brutal looking kicks, just punishing the legs of the Hitman trying to soften him up for the figure four. Flair does just that, while holding onto the rope and gains a fall. Flair and Hart then do the same spot again, and Flair wins another fall, to put him up 2-1. Good psychology there by Flair.

Flair up 2-1 with 5 minutes remaining. Lots of drama and the crowd is into it. Hart finally gets Flair to submit to the Sharpshooter with just a few minutes left, to tie it up at 2. Bobby Heenan passes Flair a pair of brass knuckles and Flair clocks Hart with them. Hart kicks out of a nearfall that I thought he wasn't going to kick out of. That looked phenomenal. Great nearfall.

Still tied up at 2, but at about the 60 minute mark, Flair goes for the figure four once again, only to get rolled up by the Hitman for the victory. ****1/2

Easily the best Hart/Flair match ever. The Bret title win and their WCW match in '98 don't hold a candle to this one. Only minor complaint I can conjure up is Bret eventually stops selling the arm as much later in the match, but this is an Iron Man match. Some of the stuff they do is going to be to waste time. But even still, they did a great job of making every hold mean something. A classic.
Haven't watched this yet but was just wondering was this billed as an Iron Man match? I always thought Bret vs HBK was the very first one.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:24 AM   #86 (permalink)
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Default Re: Classic Wrestling General Discussion & Review Thread

Recently started reading The Death of WCW by Alvarez and Reynolds. While I'm enjoying the information and details of day-to-day operations, I am finding the writing needlessly mean spirited and cruel.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:51 AM   #87 (permalink)
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Default Re: Classic Wrestling General Discussion & Review Thread

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Originally Posted by septurum View Post
Haven't watched this yet but was just wondering was this billed as an Iron Man match? I always thought Bret vs HBK was the very first one.
Bret/HBK was pretty much just the first WWF Televised Iron Man match. There are a handful of Bret/Flair and Bret/Owen Iron Man matches from house shows before 96. And then of course WCW had a few (at least 2; Rude/Steamboat Beach Blast 92 and Rude/Dustin Rhose Beach Blast 93) before Bret/HBK too.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:58 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Default Re: Classic Wrestling General Discussion: Review & Recommend Wrestlers/Matches/Shows

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"The Modern Day Warrior"Kerry Von Erich (WCCW World Heavyweight Champion) vs Jerry "The King" Lawler (AWA World Heavyweight Championship): AWA Superclash III: Title Unification Bout December 13, 1988

"There is only one Mona Lisa, one Leaning Tower of Pisa, and there can only be one World Heavyweight Champion"-Kerry Von Erich

A classic contest between two great regional wrestlers: Kerry Von Erich of Texas and Jerry Lawler of Tennessee. Kerry directly representing his father and his father's promotion, as his best wrestler and arguably his greatest champion. Lawler a stalwart of his native Memphis promotion branches out and captures the Minnesota-based AWA promotion's world championship.

Both the AWA and WCCW are struggling regional promotions with eyes on becoming national powerhouses decide to sign a talent sharing agreement and share a world championship.

What would happen would be tragic for both promotions when it comes to business, but the fans were treated to a true classic between two of professional wrestling's most underrated stars.

A fairly short contest but action packed with plenty of blood and a controversial finish. For fans of either guy, or just fans of professional wrestling this match is greatly suggested. If you never seen it, I won't spoil it. The match is featured on the AWA DVD (produced by WWE).

Match rating: **** 1/4
Finish was indeed controversial and maybe not exactly what the two companies needed at the time. I understand they wanted to protect both men with the finish and maybe even stir up talk draw attention to AWA/WCCW but it didn't work. Idk, it seems like SuperClash III was both promotions last shot at being a legit staple in the industry and they more or less failed. Don't get me wrong, the match up to the finish is really good and a better finish could have put the match over-the-top further imo. Speaking of over-the-top...



The Undertaker vs. Mankind
WWF King of the Ring (June 28, 1998)




According to Mick Foley in his book Have A Nice Day, it was Terry Funk's idea for them to start the match on top of the Cell.

This Hell in a Cell match is one of the most talked about matches ever and one of the most extreme encounters not only in WWE history but in all of wrestling. Much respect to The Undertaker performing with a broken foot and to Mick Foley for putting his life on the line just for sake of entertainment. There are several unforgettable moments that must be noted:



First, I knew something bad was going to happen when the match started at the top of the cell and their weight caved into the structure. The first time Mankind was thrown off the cell through the announcers' table to the concrete floor everyone sold the moment like death.

“He killed him!!!” JR screamed frantically. “As God as my witness he has been broken in half!!!” It is still surreal watching Mankind's body being flung in the air and crashing down to the floor.



Second, after that initial death-defying bump, Mankind went back to the top of the cell and continued to brawl with the Undertaker with a steel chair. This was completely insane and raised the intensity to another level in this match.

The Chokeslam through the top of the cell into the ring is said by Foley in his book to be even a more brutal fall than the first bump - nobody should be put through so much punishment for entertainment purposes. Foley got his damn teeth knocked out by the steel chair he was holding that landed on his face! Seeing Terry Funk get Chokeslammed out of his shoes brought some humor to this bloodletting yet also fit right into the chaos much like Foley's bloody mouth smile.

Finally, when they decided to continue the match Undertaker donned a "crimson mask" and took some stair and chair shots so the match isn't a complete massacre of Mankind. They kept the audience in suspense as to who would to the final hardcore spot on the thumbtacks which I thought made for a fitting finale to the brutality that ensued.

It is about more than just the falls Foley took. It is about the sacrifice, the passion, and the will to entertain by any means necessary. Not too many sane people would push their body to such extremes. Undertaker had a broken foot but went out there and performed. Mick Foley left the match with a concussion, dislocated jaw, dislocated shoulder, bruised kidney, and teeth knocked out.

The carnage is almost unbelievable to image it is so violent. You have to respect these men for what they put their bodies through in this match and Mick Foley literally put everything on the line. This will forever live in infamy.
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:04 AM   #89 (permalink)
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Default Re: Classic Wrestling General Discussion: Review & Recommend Wrestlers/Matches/Shows

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Originally Posted by Clique View Post
Finish was indeed controversial and maybe not exactly what the two companies needed at the time. I understand they wanted to protect both men with the finish and maybe even stir up talk draw attention to AWA/WCCW but it didn't work. Idk, it seems like SuperClash III was both promotions last shot at being a legit staple in the industry and they more or less failed. Don't get me wrong, the match up to the finish is really good and a better finish could have put the match over-the-top further imo. Speaking of over-the-top...



The Undertaker vs. Mankind
WWF King of the Ring (June 28, 1998)




According to Mick Foley in his book Have A Nice Day, it was Terry Funk's idea for them to start the match on top of the Cell.

This Hell in a Cell match is one of the most talked about matches ever and one of the most extreme encounters not only in WWE history but in all of wrestling. Much respect to The Undertaker performing with a broken foot and to Mick Foley for putting his life on the line just for sake of entertainment. There are several unforgettable moments that must be noted:



First, I knew something bad was going to happen when the match started at the top of the cell and their weight caved into the structure. The first time Mankind was thrown off the cell through the announcers' table to the concrete floor everyone sold the moment like death.

“He killed him!!!” JR screamed frantically. “As God as my witness he has been broken in half!!!” It is still surreal watching Mankind's body being flung in the air and crashing down to the floor.



Second, after that initial death-defying bump, Mankind went back to the top of the cell and continued to brawl with the Undertaker with a steel chair. This was completely insane and raised the intensity to another level in this match.

The Chokeslam through the top of the cell into the ring is said by Foley in his book to be even a more brutal fall than the first bump - nobody should be put through so much punishment for entertainment purposes. Foley got his damn teeth knocked out by the steel chair he was holding that landed on his face! Seeing Terry Funk get Chokeslammed out of his shoes brought some humor to this bloodletting yet also fit right into the chaos much like Foley's bloody mouth smile.

Finally, when they decided to continue the match Undertaker donned a "crimson mask" and took some stair and chair shots so the match isn't a complete massacre of Mankind. They kept the audience in suspense as to who would to the final hardcore spot on the thumbtacks which I thought made for a fitting finale to the brutality that ensued.

It is about more than just the falls Foley took. It is about the sacrifice, the passion, and the will to entertain by any means necessary. Not too many sane people would push their body to such extremes. Undertaker had a broken foot but went out there and performed. Mick Foley left the match with a concussion, dislocated jaw, dislocated shoulder, bruised kidney, and teeth knocked out.

The carnage is almost unbelievable to image it is so violent. You have to respect these men for what they put their bodies through in this match and Mick Foley literally put everything on the line. This will forever live in infamy.
In my top ten matches. Looking beyond the stunts the story between the two men is incredible. The fans owe alot to both of these guys and I don't believe Foley's commitment to the fans has ever been acknowledged as much as it should be. Even that I Quit match with The Rock. Brutal stuff just for his fans. Foley worked so hard to get to the pinnacle of stardom that he reached in the Attitude Era that he didn't want to waste a moment or opportunity.
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:51 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Default Re: Classic Wrestling General Discussion & Review Thread

^Foley gave so much to the business and the physical sacrifices he has made for my entertainment I greatly appreciate his efforts. Some of the bumps he took not only in this match or the chair shots he took in the I Quit Match with Rock, but going back to the early 90s in WCW when he was taking those potato shots from Vader was brutal.


Now, I posted this video in another thread that I think is just an awesome compilation of some of Mr. Perfect's best vignettes with The Genius during his feud with Hulk Hogan. This is how you present arrogant heels. Perfect was made a legend because of entertaining segments like these as well as his great work in the ring.

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