[Big Z]

Worst WM event ever. The most basic of storytelling combined with dull as shit sequences. The fans were into it just because of how big Andre and Hogan were as superstars. I don't ever plan on watching the match again in my life. One of the greatest matches of all time? Not in any sense of the word. Biggest match of all time? Good argument for it.

[The Gorgeous One]

Originally Posted by FuckChristmas

Worst WM event ever. The most basic of storytelling combined with dull as shit sequences. The fans were into it just because of how big Andre and Hogan were as superstars. I don't ever plan on watching the match again in my life. One of the greatest matches of all time? Not in any sense of the word. Biggest match of all time? Good argument for it.

I watch it regularly. Good match, not for people who want technical wrestling, but the sequences flowed brilliantly, and when you have the crowd on your side it means you are doing something right. Just because you have two superstars, doesn't mean the crowd will naturally be into it, look at Goldberg vs Lesnar, one of the worst matches of all time and the crowd hated it.

[Big Z]

The crowd hated that match because both men were leaving.

[The Gorgeous One]

Originally Posted by FuckChristmas

The crowd hated that match because both men were leaving.

I didn't realise you spoke on behalf of the crowd at Wrestlemania XX, sorry.

Here's another one I presume we will disagree on:



Great match, what a tragedy that it wasn't the main event.

[WOOLCOCK]

Whilst the match itself wasn't great with the stalling and eternity in actually locking up, as well as the actual match quality being sub par when they did wrestle..the fact the crowd were chanting repeatedly about Lesnar leaving should speak volumes about what they thought of him. You could audibly hear 'You Sold Out' and 'Na Na Na Na' chants throughout and there were even loud jeers of 'Boring' and 'This Match Sucks'. Pretty sure Goldberg leaving wasn't known until afterwards (I don't have a great memory with that sort of stuff) but he got some pretty brutal heat in spells as well. It was clear the crowd were gonna shit on Lesnar regardless of how good the match turned out.

Rock/Hogan is about as good as that match in 2002 could have possibly been. Well layed out 'Clash of the Titans' match with the crowd obviously helping to make it a spectacle. Not really much in the way of a match but they layed out the brunt of the match well enough with making Rock act more heelish and the crowd cheering on Hogan regardless. Finishing run and both men's finishers being kicked out of with the crowd losing their shit is a really great moment and testament to what a brilliant crowd can do for a match. Such a shame Rock/Cena wasn't structured similarly, instead going twice as long and dragging horribly as a result. Its not a 'great' match in terms of the actual wrestling or even the actual story, but its a brilliant spectacle which is what the match needed to be. Its the kind of match that could make grown men relive their younger years when Hogan was the biggest thing in wrestling.

Stan Hansen vs Andre from 1981 in New Japan is still the best Andre match I've ever seen and one of the greatest spectacles in wrestling history. Seeing the New Japan fans fully behind Hansen in his battle to topple the Giant is such a sight and Andre is still fairly nimble compared to his broken down years in WWF. The whole battle of Andre trying to avoid Hansen's lariat and the ultimate payoff to that story is beautiful.

[Big Z]

Originally Posted by The Gorgeous One

I didn't realise you spoke on behalf of the crowd at Wrestlemania XX, sorry.

Here's another one I presume we will disagree on:



Great match, what a tragedy that it wasn't the main event.

Like Segunda said, the crowd were chanting stuff that proves they hated the fact they were leaving lol. Doesn't mean the match wasn't shitty though, because it was, but I don't think the crowd even gave it a chance because they were pissed they were leaving the company.

And I like Rock/Hogan. Definitely should have main evented over Jericho/HHH.

[The Gorgeous One]

Originally Posted by Segunda Caida

Its not a 'great' match in terms of the actual wrestling or even the actual story, but its a brilliant spectacle which is what the match needed to be. Its the kind of match that could make grown men relive their younger years when Hogan was the biggest thing in wrestling.

What is 'actual wrestling'? I have heard the term not a very good wrestler been thrown around a lot about certain guys or not very good 'wrestling' matches. What is 'wrestling'? Who says what makes a match good? Wrestling is in the eye of the beholder. What makes a match good is completely subjective.

'Wrestling' surely incorporates every aspect of it, not just technical or mat based wrestling.

[WOOLCOCK]

Originally Posted by The Gorgeous One

What is 'actual wrestling'? I have heard the term not a very good wrestler been thrown around a lot about certain guys or not very good 'wrestling' matches. What is 'wrestling'? Who says what makes a match good? Wrestling is in the eye of the beholder. What makes a match good is completely subjective.

'Wrestling' surely incorporates every aspect of it, not just technical or mat based wrestling.

I mean from what I consider a good wrestling match. Neither guy puts in a great babyface/heel performance, the general match is just comprised of both character having basic sequences before the finishing run. Its a spectacle match where the atmosphere dominates and means they don't have to break out of their comfort zone. Its hardly a Benoit/Regal, Benoit/Finlay or Eddie/Mysterio match which has solid storytelling, a great babyface/heel dynamic, sequences which build and build until the finish, organic counters etc. Rock/Hogan obviously wasn't meant to see either grapple or even do much outside of the basics, which is entirely meant to be a compliment and not take away from the match.

I'm not saying Rock/Hogan should have tried to imitate any of those matches, just highlight the difference between the type of match Rock/Hogan worked and the sort of direction the other matches took in terms of character work, storytelling, pacing and build.

Not sure what the need was for that 'what makes a match good?' sentence. Wrestling as a subjective element should be entirely obvious to anyone.

[The Gorgeous One]

Originally Posted by Segunda Caida

I mean from what I consider a good wrestling match. Neither guy puts in a great babyface/heel performance, the general match is just comprised of both character having basic sequences before the finishing run. Its a spectacle match where the atmosphere dominates and means they don't have to break out of their comfort zone. Its hardly a Benoit/Regal, Benoit/Finlay or Eddie/Mysterio match which has solid storytelling, a great babyface/heel dynamic, sequences which build and build until the finish, organic counters etc. Rock/Hogan obviously wasn't meant to see either grapple or even do much outside of the basics, which is entirely meant to be a compliment and not take away from the match.

I'm not saying Rock/Hogan should have tried to imitate any of those matches, just highlight the difference between the type of match Rock/Hogan worked and the sort of direction the other matches took in terms of character work, storytelling, pacing and build.

Not sure what the need was for that 'what makes a match good?' sentence. Wrestling as a subjective element should be entirely obvious to anyone.

Cool. I wouldn't rate any of the matches you said as great matches. I do like some technical wrestling, the Dynamite Kid vs Tiger Mask series is great. Also, if you like that kind of British style I would urge you to check out Johnny Saint and Billy Robinson. Don't get me wrong, Finlay vs Benoit in WCW was a solid match, but I wouldn't rate it as great.

[Big Z]

Have you seen Benoit/Finlay in WWE? That's where their absolute best matches come from.

DK Vs TM are extremely overrated imo. Probably only one match from their series that I'd call good.