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Hogan vs. Sid @ WrestleMania 8 Planned All Along?

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#1 ·
I stumbled upon this article from Norm DaCosta who used to do a weekly wrestling article when I was a kid in the Toronto Star from May 23, 1991. The article, almost a year prior to the match is talking about Hogan vs. Sid @ next year's WrestleMania (WM8).

Flair didn't make his TV debut with the WWF until September 9, 1991 episode of Prime Time Wrestling, and the common story as to why they didn't do Hogan vs. Flair @ WM8 is because they already did the house show loop with Hogan vs. Flair and the feud had cooled off and wasn't drawing after the initial run, as well as Sid being super hot at the end of '91/early '92.

However, it's pretty clear that Hogan vs. Sid was in Vince's head all along, even though we know that "plans change" and Vince promises guys a lot of things far out in advance which don't always take place. In this case however, it seems he stuck to his initial plan, which I'm sure was also influenced by the Hogan/Flair house show loop, but that narrative has seemed to take over from the fact that the Hogan vs. Sid Mania match was widely reported as early as April 1991 by Meltzer in the Observer.


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April 15, 1991 Observer:
Topping off the news this week is that the split between Sid Vicious and World Championship Wrestling appears to have been reconciled. About two weeks back, Vicious, who had asked to renegotiate his contract for a raise from $5,000 per week to either $7,000 or $8,000, depending upon the source, then gave his notice and gave the word he would sit out the summer and join Titan Sports in September, after his WCW contract expired. By the end of last week, it appeared it was nearly a formality that Vicious would be leaving WCW shortly after the next PPV card, and he was in the process of being "written out" of the promotion's storyline. However after negotiations over this past week, it appears the two sides have agreed to terms. Jim Herd said late Wednesday that he was 99 percent certain Vicious was staying and that he wouldn't be taxing the summer off. Another major office executive on Thursday called it a done deal, although those close to Vicious have said that the contract hasn't been signed yet and until it is, it's not a done deal. Nobody that I would call a good, source has given me any terms that the two sides have verbally agreed to, although the rumor mill within the promotion seems to be that Vicious has agreed to $350,000 per year in base pay plus bonuses for PPV events. WCW was trying to get Vicious to agree to a three-year deal, but the length of the new deal may or may not be that long-term.
April 22, 1991 Observer:
Forget last week's headlines. Sid Vicious is bolting WCW for the WWF. The word came in the middle of this past week when the contract that both sides had agreed upon the previous week was drawn up and presented to Vicious, who then gave his notice once again effective after the 5/19 PPV show in St. Petersburg.

There has been a great deal of talk about this situation from many different perspectives over the past month. WCW officials believe Vicious was promised the main event spot opposite Hulk Hogan at next year's Wrestlemania in Indianapolis as the lure to get him away. It appears WCW made some major promises to Vicious besides just money in order to keep him. There was some demoralization within WCW, since the company did everything it could to keep the guy and basically he turned down guaranteed money and probably the title in order to get a chance to lose to Hulk Hogan.

There are many different ways of looking at this, from the perspective of the respective companies and also the attitude of fans following both companies. As far as any changes in any balance of power, the truth is that with or without Sid Vicious, WCW is a distant second from a business standpoint (and from just the wrestling standpoint, losing Vicious is a plus for WCW). Hogan-Vicious should do big business for the WWF. But the WWF has to be careful with this character because if he's portrayed as a heel, he may become the counter-cult hero (similar to The Undertaker) and wind up threatening Hogan's popularity. The latter thing doesn't matter if the match draws money because looking at wrestling as a business, promoters really shouldn't care about the reaction of the fans once they v have purchased the ticket for the main event in regards to who they favor, but worry about whether or not they purchased the ticket. But signing Sid Vicious helps the WWF without a doubt.

Does losing Sid Vicious hurt WCW? And if it does, how much? The answer is, it does hurt the company, but the degree it does is dependent on a number of factors. If the company keeps spinning its wheels without an apparent direction, while saying it's a nail in the coffin is far too strong, it hurts because fans will see it as another example (like Road Warriors, Mean Mark and Nasty Boys) of WCW as the Triple-A feeder system for the WWF. Between that and WCW's inability to book the nice suburban arenas in a lot of the major markets, kills any chance of the image change the company needs to be viewed as major league and be competition for the type of fan who only attends shows once or twice a year (which is the fan who attends the one or two shows per year in each city that does pop the big house). But in another way, the loss of Vicious individually, will hurt the company very little or really not at all if the company finds a successful direction. Vicious was not a drawing card in WCW. Sure, he got big pops, but the shows he headlined virtually never drew money. Both Sting and Lex Luger as headliners drew much larger crowds opposite Ric Flair than they ever did against Sid Vicious. Under the right set of circumstances did he have the potential to draw money? I think so. One would certainly think so. It hasn't been proven yet. All that has been proven thus far is he can get a rabid crowd reaction for his every move, which is a very positive character trait in this business, but not as positive as the ability to draw money. I personally think Sid Vicious vs. El Gigante would have drawn money, at least the first time in every city, but we'll never know for sure. The loss of Vicious absolutely hurts WCW in the short-run because so much was dependent upon that feud and because it renders Gigante's drawing power, whatever there was of it, practically nil. Gigante vs. One Man Gang isn't going to draw money. But last Saturday's TBS show's ratings were an ominous note. The "first ever" meeting of Gigante and Vicious in a tag match that was heavily plugged on all TBS shows the previous week drew a 2.5 rating--or less than the average number of viewers that normally watch the show. Granted, all TV viewership was down that day because of unseasonably warm weather, but it also shows that among the general public (and TV ratings, which are the only gauge of general public interest because even when .the business is at Its hottest, it's really a very small percentage of fans who actually will attend a house show, however it is that small percentage that are responsible for the majority of the income the business produces), a Vicious-Gigante confrontation meant nothing more to draw casual viewers than just a normal Saturday night wrestling show. To the paying public that may not be the case, or it may be the case.
April 29, 1991 Observer:
The latest on Sid Vicious is that he's been pulled by WCW from all previously announced house show dates except for the 5/19 PPV show. There is a lot of internal bitterness over this, because he's being paid his $5,000 per week for saying home for one month. You can't blame him for that because it was a decision made by the company, but it does seem like he's getting one heck of a nice reward for walking out on his contract. The explanation given to me was the company feared Vicious, if he were to work his scheduled dates, would suddenly be injured and thus get out of doing the stretcher job at the PPV. One WWF official wanted to bet me that there was no way he was going out on the stretcher anyway. I didn't take the bet, by the way.
May 6, 1991 Observer:
Here's the latest on Sid Vicious. According to Jim Herd, Vicious will be using the Sid Vicious name in the WWF and will be released from his WCW contract on May 20. Vicious is scheduled to work the PPV show and do the job for El Gigante. The match is being advertised as a stretcher match (and all the television preceding the show has been taped advertising a stretcher match). Vicious probably will do the job for Gigante. But many people would be surprised to see him do a stretcher job. Anyway, even though he is under contract with WCW until September 5, which means WCW can hold up his Titan starting date until that point, he's being released and will probably start with Titan at the following television taping. Herd said that legally, the rights to use and market a name correlate with the date the individual is under contract. If a wrestler is given a name by WCW (such as Big Josh), WCW has the right to prevent Matt Borne from going to the WWF and using the name. On the other hand, if the wrestler comes to WCW with the name, like Sid Vicious did, who used the name in Tennessee first, then WCW can't prevent him from taking the name elsewhere. In other words, if a wrestler is scheduled to go to work for the WWF or WCW with a gimmicked name, it would behoove the person to spend a few weeks working independent dates before starting with the new company. That way, if things don't work out, the wrestler can take the name with him either on independents or to a rival major.
May 18, 1991 Observer:
The big question on the upcoming PPV show was whether or not Sid Vicious will show up and do a job (or even a stretcher job) for El Gigante. But after watching the TV, I'm not sure that anyone really cares since Gigante is so obviously being programmed with One Man Gang (which nobody will care about either but is probably the best of a series of bad alternatives, but the focus of Gigante is off Vicious, as it should be since the guy is all but gone). But anyway, the betting odds are it's a major longshot Vicious will do the stretcher job. I consider the odds about 25 percent that he'll show up and do a clean job and they'll forget about the stretcher stips. The odds are about 40 percent that he'll show up, but he may show up and never get in the ring. So I'd say the odds are about 60 percent the match will be Gigante vs. Gang.
May 21, 1991 Observer:
Apparently Rick Rude got a release from his WWF contract which allows him to work anywhere except WCW, which is the same deal McMahon used with Tim Horner and Terry Taylor. Can't understand why, if that's the case, Jim Herd is going to allow Sid Vicious out of his contract before September. And I'm not sure that a release like that would actually hold up in court anyway.
 
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#5 · (Edited)
Ahh I remember Norm DaCosta weekly. Those were the days.


I'll chime in as I remember those articles that year. The WWF in 1990 really went around trying to get new blood as its roster was getting thin. They got Road Warriors and Kerry Von Erich for example to pump some new blood. It was also the "original new generation" campaign before the new generation stuff in 1994.

Vince had always wanted Von Erich even back in 1984-5 and saw him as a guy he could build the company around. With Hogan possibly passing the torch Vince was trying to phase in the new stars to take over. That is why Road Warriors came in to replace Demolition. Von Erich to come in to take the spot Warrior left in the IC division with Warrior on top.

Then Vince worrying with Warrior's numbers believed Sid could be the heir apparent of Hogan. I can't see any of the videos online, BUT when Sid came in he was heralded as the Second Coming with superstars talking about him. Hogan vs Sid was suppose to be a passing of the torch part 2, but Sid being Sid Vince called back Warrior. It is why the Hogan/Sid match was booked that way at Mania. Vince just decided to go back to Warrior instead of Sid.

Vince saw the opportunity to sign Ric Flair after his squabble with WCW. Hogan/Flair was a bonus out of nowhere WWF had now.

Sid however was indeed promised Main Event billing at Mania and I'm sure Vince did the same arrangement to get Flair to sign to.

It is a reason why it was billed a Double Main Event. Contractually he fulfilled his promise. Vince also had the ball in his court where he could have gone Hogan vs Flair or Hogan vs Sid. WWF had also did a Sid/Taker run on house shows. I guess Vince decided the better bang for Mania would be putting Savage with Flair (which WWF MAGAZINE admitted was a purist dream match) with Hogan vs. Sid which was originally suppose to be like a passing of the torch match.
 
#11 · (Edited)
What I always found weird about the "poor ticket sales" theory is that the WWF never really did a dry run on main events for Mania before, so why would they do that for Flair vs Hogan? I mean Hogan vs Flair did big business for WCW being its biggest money maker up until that point at Bash At The Beach. It did so because the masses never really saw the match.

That's like doing Hogan vs Andre or Hogan vs Warrior on house shows and then scrapping the match for Mania because of "low ticket sales". When the WWF did Hogan vs. Orndorff in 1986 at house shows they were selling out every city, but the WWF never went with that for Mania III. It was only a back up for Hogan vs Andre if Andre wasn't able to wrestle.

O-dog what you posted sounds eerily similar to what the back up plans were for Mania III. I think that is the closest to the truth that is out in the public. If Sid doesn't come back in time the WWF had Hogan vs Flair set up. It was easy to change to Hogan vs Sid by stating Hogan giving up the title shot which Jack Tunney gave him.

I could also see the Sid vs Warrior passing of the torch with Warrior as a heel champion. What I don't see is Hogan losing to Warrior again which Hogan was the champion when Sid came in. Unless this may explain Warrior's attitude around SummerSlam '92 as he saw the writing on the wall Sid was going to be his replacement as the replacement for Hogan.



I think what O-Dog posted is the real story.
 
#12 ·
What I always found weird about the "poor ticket sales" theory is that the WWF never really did a dry run on main events for Mania before, so why would they do that for Flair vs Hogan? I mean Hogan vs Flair did big business for WCW being its biggest money maker up until that point at Bash At The Beach. It did so because the masses never really saw the match.

That's like doing Hogan vs Andre or Hogan vs Warrior on house shows and then scrapping the match for Mania because of "low ticket sales". When the WWF did Hogan vs. Orndorff in 1986 at house shows they were selling out every city, but the WWF never went with that for Mania III. It was only a back up for Hogan vs Andre if Andre wasn't able to wrestle.
The only reason I could see is Hogan vs. Sid was actually the original plan and because of that, they wanted to get something out of Hogan vs. Flair, instead of putting it off for at least a year. However, when Sid got hurt, that provided the opening but by that point, they'd already advertised Hogan vs. Flair on house shows for the next two months.

However, I still question why they wouldn't change Hogan vs. Sid the minute Flair signed his contract. In that regard, I could see it being a case of greed. Thinking Hogan vs. Flair would do big house show business, as well as big PPV business but the problem with that was taking the match around the country and it wasn't the typical Ric Flair match. So, for fans going in and expecting to see the Flair they knew or heard about, seeing him work a Hogan-style 13 minute match was probably a let down, which could explain the decline in interest for the return (from 15,000 in Oakland & 14,000 in LA to 5,000 in San Francisco & 6,300 in Anaheim a month later), despite the controversial finish (in Oakland) where Flair "won" the WWF Title (it was reversed).

I could also see the Sid vs Warrior passing of the torch with Warrior as a heel champion. What I don't see is Hogan losing to Warrior again which Hogan was the champion when Sid came in. Unless this may explain Warrior's attitude around SummerSlam '92 as he saw the writing on the wall Sid was going to be his replacement as the replacement for Hogan.
I could see that but not necessarily for the title, as I can't see Hogan going down 0-2 against Warrior. And if Hogan vs. Flair would happen, it's easier to make that for the title and avoid anybody doing the job, since Hogan is gonna leave.

Also of note, when Warrior filed lawsuit against WWF in '93, it mentioned that when he signed a new deal in '92 (about a week prior to Wrestlemania), they wanted to turn him heel, which makes me think that plan was in place back in '91 but he left.
 
#10 ·
The first was October 22, 1991, in an unadvertised dark match that was originally supposed to be Flair vs. Piper. As the story goes, Hogan stepped in, as he wanted to give the match a test run before taking it on the road. From there, they worked pretty regularly for the next three months.



Couple things I will add from the Observer after the '92 Rumble:

Dave's mentioned that, in the week prior, WWF had shipped promotional posters for WM to Japan, which advertised Flair, as champion, defending against Hogan. So, at least by mid-January, Hogan vs. Flair was the plan. He also indicated that Hogan would be leaving until Summerslam, with the Rumble finish possibly leading to Hogan vs. Sid there, with Hogan vs. Flair at WM because, in Dave's words, "...they haven't put off the legdrop finish for this long for no reason."

Now, going back to an Observer from late October '91, Dave also talked about Sid's bicep injury and noted he was expected to be out for about four months, "which means almost until, but not including, Wrestlemania, which changes a whole lot of plans."


It seems to me that Sid's bicep injury made it Hogan vs. Flair because, with Sid out for that expected four months, you're basically left with a four week build for the biggest show of the year, which would've been impossible, as all TV thru Wrestlemania had been taped by mid-February. Sid, with that expected four month absence, wouldn't have been back until March and you probably don't want to spend four months on the hope he could come back sooner.

So, they began booking as if Hogan vs. Flair was the Wrestlemania destination.

But, Sid returns in two months instead of the expected four. Now, you can get back on track because you know you have the sure thing, which is something you saw 8-10 months out.
 
#13 ·
Here's what happened:

April/May 1991 - Vince McMahon makes Sid Eudy a second offer, one that he could not refuse. That offer was Hogan's spot, and it would entail a WrestleMania main event. Sid signs with the WWF immediately after SuperBrawl and made his first appearance in a dark segment at a WWF taping on May 28th.

The WWF had two top-level faces in Hogan and Warrior, and Vince had decided previously that Warrior was not his Hogan replacement. So the WWF began planning for a Warrior heel-turn, which was subtly hinted at for SummerSlam but never realized. It's possible that we may have seen a face vs face match with Hogan vs Sid, or if the WWF had its way it would have been Sid vs a heel, WWF Champion Warrior.

End of June - Jim Herd fires Ric Flair. Suddenly the dream match for the WWF becomes available. Meanwhile the steroid scandal blows up.

Beg of Sep - Warrior is suspended. Flair joins WWF and Vince quickly books Flair vs Hogan matches on the house show circuit to revive flagging attendance figures. At this point, it appears that the plan is the following:

- Undertaker beats Hogan at Survivor Series with Flair's help
- Sid defeats Hogan at This Tuesday in Texas and wins the World Heavyweight championship
- Storylines lead to: Hogan vs Flair, Savage vs Roberts, and Sid vs Undertaker at WrestleMania, the latter with Sid defending the title

Early Oct - Sid tears his tricep and is out for three months

Oct - Jan - Steroid scandal heats up and WWF is mired in a white hot media spotlight by January. Sid returns, but facing increased government scrutiny the company no longer can push a musclebound wrestler as its champion. Everything is shaken up. Undertaker is turned face, Sid is turned heel. Flair keeps his WM spot by winning the title and facing Randy Savage. Vince fulfills his promise to Sid by booking him in the main event against Hogan.
 
#6 ·
According to Sid, he was told he was originally going to beat Warrior for the WWF Championship at Wrestlemania. Then Warrior got himself canned.

I'm sure McMahon would've loved to book the dream match of Flair Vs. Hogan, but add in disappointing house show ticket sales and the steroid trial and you can understand why it got scrapped.

- Vic
 
#9 · (Edited)


The first Hogan/Flair match was in October.

Didn't Sid get injured? Maybe Flair/Hogan was the backup plan, but with the house shows not drawing as expected, and Sid being back in time Vince went with his original plan of Sid/Hogan..
Sid was injured for Survivor Series 1991. He was fine by the Rumble.
 
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