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Who Had More Impact On Wrestling History; Kevin Nash Or Randy Savage?

5K views 57 replies 39 participants last post by  DropThatSoap 
#1 ·
Serious question. Who had more IMPACT on wrestling history, Kevin Nash or Randy Savage?

I feel the obvious answer is not the right one. I pick Kevin Nash.

Nash had a more imposing look, but that's the only attribute he has over Savage. Mic skills, in ring skills and personality go to Macho.

Savage is a legend, without question. However, if he is removed from wrestling history, wrestling still follows pretty much the same course. Hogan was leading the charge during most of Macho's WWF run, and was the real revolutionary force on camera. Even during Macho's year long title reign, Hogan never left the main event picture and was still the face of the WWF.

Nash and Hall shook up wrestling when they jumped to WCW and appeared as invading from the WWF. Hogan's heel turn made the nwo super important, but Hall and Nash were the foundation of what they were all about and gave them the cool vibe that made them marketable.

Without the NWO, WCW never becomes the number one wrestling promotion and beats Raw for 84 weeks straight.
 
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#21 ·
Last I checked, this was asking about Savage vs Nash and not Savage vs NWO.

Completely ridiculous how Nash is getting full credit for the Outsiders/NWO.

Coming in as the outsiders impacted wrestling, but it wasn't huge until Hogan's heel turn as the third man. That's what really catapulted the whole thing. So without Hogan it doesn't blow up the way it does and have Nitro leading RAW in the ratings for as long as it did. People giving that credit to Nash are oblivious.

Nash, shitty matches and shitty promos.

Savage on the other hand was an innovator. Completely different era and that needs to be taken into account. While WWF was mostly populated with giants, and big guys who could hardly move in the ring. There was a star like Macho Man who kept the shows interesting, climbing to the top rope and dropping an elbow drop when so few were doing that.

So yea, aside from NWO Kevin Nash wasn't going to impact wrestling history. And without Hulk Hogan's heel turn, NWO never happens.

Individual vs individual it's Savage hands down. Pure awesomeness, great promos, great in-ring work. Has given some great wrestlemania moments and matches. For so many years.
 
#36 · (Edited)
Savage and it's not even as close as some believe.

People tend to forget, or they were simply too young to know or remember that Savage, along with Flair in the NWA, was one of the very first smaller guys to be pushed to the top (WWF Champion) in a time period in the WWF when big guys were the norm to be World Champion. Guys like Andre, Hogan, Warrior, etc. While Flair was the smaller guy holding it down in the NWA; Savage was the small guy holding it down in the WWF. And to do it in the WWF in the 1980's was much more difficult considering it was the land of the Giants at the time.

Also, not only did Savage become WWF Champion, but he did it as both a face and a heel. Outside of Flair, being a World Champion HEEL in the 1980's as a smaller guy was very rare. Vince's mindset back then was that smaller guys can't make it top/World Champion heels because the crowds back then tended to view them as more sympathetic going up against bigger guys. Savage broke that glass-ceiling in the WWF, and in the WWF during it's time when the huge bodybuilder physique was very much in and the majority of the guys Randy's size were mid-carders at best.

Doing all this, Randy paved the way for guys like Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, all the way to the guys who hover around the 6 foot mark these days who have a good position in the company; especially as heels. His match with Steamboat at WM 3 also paved the way for actual match quality and matches that focused more on psychology and workrate at WrestleMania. Most of the matches at WM from WM 1/early years of WM were awful, boring matches. The Savage/Steamboat WM 3 match was the first WM match that was alot more about match quality compared to the rest of the matches on the WM cards in the early years of WM. So, you can also say Randy paved the way for actual good matches to take place at WM as that match was the best match to take place at WM for YEARS.

That's not to shit on Nash. I like both guys. Find them both very entertaining. But Nash's legacy is being one of the first 3 members of the NWO, and not even the first guy to show up on Nitro, as that was Scott Hall. And not even the biggest name in the NWO, as that was obviously Hulk Hogan. Most notably outside of that, he ended Goldberg's streak, which many view as a disaster still to this day, along with the finish being shit, too. Nash has a nice legacy and is a big name. But Randy legit changed the business and changed the way Vince thought about smaller guys. Many forget that he came before Bret or Shawn and was their size, too.
 
#4 · (Edited)
To me it is Randy Savage, by far, and i think the reason is generational, because even now when i think wrestling, i think about characters like Hulk Hogan, the Macho Man , the British Bulldog and all those amazing characters that populated wrestling when i started watching it after my country began to air some american wrestling on TV and so those guys made a much bigger impact that any other wrestlers that came after or before.

Not to say that Kevin Nash has no importance, because he has a big one too because indeed he was part of the launch of one of the biggest wrestling storyline ever with Scott Hall when he moved to WCW.

But to me, "my" wrestling history has Randy Savage being huge on it because the Macho Man made an incredible impact on younger me.

Even now, i can still have some goosebumps when i hear pomp&circumstance and see Randy Savage coming

It's simply awakening my nostalgia brain cell at full force
 
#6 ·
Macho impact stands on its own. He was a great IC champ. Him vs Steamboat is the stuff of legends. His rivalry against the Honky Tonk Man was amazing. Going against Hogan.

When I think Nash its always NWO, Outsiders, The Kliq, etc. Nothing by himself really jumps out. He might have been involved in bigger story lines but that's about it.

I'll take Macho Man. ohhhh yeah!
 
#22 · (Edited)
In ring-wise, Randy Savage.

Business-wise, Kevin Nash.

Business is far more important than in-ring, so the answer is Kevin Nash.

It's funny though I see some people in this thread giving all the NWO credit to Hogan as if Nash is irrelevant to their success and while Hogan is at the forefront of Nash's impact, Hogan was also at the forefront of Savage's impact on wrestling, that's if you're talking business wise. Wrestlemania 5, The Mega Powers Explode, do you think that storyline would've been as big if Savage was working with someone else? Fact is Savage was the #2 guy to Hogan just like Nash was the #2 guy to Hogan in the NWO. They both needed Hogan, so let's not put this whole "needing Hogan" argument on Nash alone when it's clear both of them needed him for successful business.

It's not just the NWO, most people are also ignoring the Curtain Call and how Nash/Scott's leave from the WWF affected the way the wrestlers were paid as addressed already and that had absolutely nothing to do with Hogan. I'm not even sure if Scott leaving the WWF would've been as much a blow if he left without Nash going with him. From what I've heard, Vince didn't care much about Scott leaving but Nash on the other hand, he was a main eventer about to receive another big push from Vince unlike Razor, who was just a upper midcarder his entire stint in the WWF. I mean Nash would've ended Taker's streak at Wrestlemania had he not left. Nash leaving was more of a blow for Vince than Scott was or Savage, who was just a commentator at the end of his WWF run and considered too old to be in a ring again by Vince. No, NWO would not have been the same without Nash and just Razor on his own or with somebody else in Nash's position as another poster suggested. Nash and Scott were real life buddies, they lived the NWO lifestyle before the NWO was even born. They were the NWO in real life with Shawn Michaels and The Kliq. You can't recreate Scott's chemistry with Nash with somebody else nor could he do it alone with Hogan. If it were up to Hogan actually, the NWO would've been all "Brother, Brother, Brother" which Nash said was Hogan's vision for the group but Nash and Hall had a totally different vision for the group, which was what we saw played out and what the group should have been. Hall on his own wouldn't have gotten anywhere politically backstage if he were left alone with Hogan but Nash and Hall together did. So yeah, Hogan being the third man did catapult the group but it was Hall and Nash who had the vision to make the NWO work, not Hogan, who didn't even want to be the leader until last minute. NWO could've gone totally different if Hogan's vision had played out instead.

Without the NWO getting the ball rolling, there would be no Attitude Era and without the Attitude Era, wrestling wouldn't exist today and there'd be no forums today for you to talk about and remember Savage, Hogan, Nash and wrestling history in general. Nobody would remember any of that at all nor care about wrestling. WWF would be dead and WCW still would've died as a result of the AOL/Time Warner merge.
 
#31 · (Edited)
Hulk Hogan isn't being ALL the credit for the NWO. He IS getting the main reason for it becoming the success it was though if we want to use Kevin Nash in an argument about impact on the wrestling business.

Let us not forget as someone stated that Nash as Diesel was an abysmal flop. You think that tide of fans that came in after the NWO was mostly on Nash? I get it that Nash brought the "New Generation" / Hip Hop image with Hall to the NWO, but BUSINESS wise Hogan was the most responsible for it.

The REAL REASON why the NWO worked was it was set up AS WWF VS. NWO. If anything Hall's initial appearance if he doesn't pull it off the way he did the fans don't bite that it was WWF vs WCW which was already simmering when Vince Mcmahon went crazy with those "Billionaire Ted" skits. This is why I said Hogan made the whole thing work. It was the history of those two organizations climaxing in the minds of fans. Nash had a huge part in this, but I still say this does not become anywhere close to what it was if Mr. WWF Hulk Hogan doesn't turn on WCW. It doesn't get WWF fans who stopped watching again when Hogan admits to selling out the WWF.

Now about Randy Savage's role in the Mega-Powers. You fail to realize that angle WORKED because of Savage and Elizabeth too. The WWF has never duplicated a couple like that ever since not even including HHH/Steph(although they are opposites in reality). Heck there were Savage fans back then who thought Hogan was the heel in it.

You aren't really saying Nash was a #2 to Savage's #2 to Hogan are you? Savage was the ACTUAL #2 in the company, while in WCW you could easily say Sting and Goldberg the 1A or #2 to Hogan. Randy Savage was the most dastardly heel when he jumped on Steamboat's throat, but a few months after losing to The Dragon Savage forced the WWF to turn him babyface because fans were cheering for the guy. This was back in heavy kayfabe. Before that "being a bad guy is cool" you talk about with Nash.

When Randy Savage left the WWF in the mid 90's he took away a huge chunk of revenue leaving with the Slim Jim deal. It is a reason why Vince stayed salty with Macho so long that he didn't even bring him back. Randy Savage was a pioneer in bringing that kind of merchandising/sponsorship to the business.

The curtain call's impact AT the time was minimal. The WWF was smart in using it in angle to kickstart DX, but at the time it had no impact because the WWF never made mention of it. The breaking kayfabe on screen's real impact player was the Montreal Screwjob when Vince came out and said that "Bret Screwed Bret" which led to the heel Mcmahon that helped turn the tide.

The guaranteed contract imo credit should actually go to Eric Bischoff. He was smart enough to know if he brought that to the table with WWF stars he would be able to lure them away. Bischoff started luring WWF stars like Hogan and Savage because he made sure to make their deals sweeter than what Vince traditionally did. So does Hogan get credit for this? Of course not. Why should Nash get full credit for that when it was Bischoff who actually came to the table with that arrangement?

During that time period, the guy Vince was afraid of losing the most was Bret Hart which is why he gave him that 20 year contract not to jump ship. After that he was most afraid HBK was going to jump ship where he ended up giving HBK more money than Bret's year to year deal which caused riff in the main event with those two.

Oh it's funny how some also forget RANDY SAVAGE WAS IN THE NWO TOO!!


For those that are downplaying Nash's contribution to the NWO, here's how I see it. Yes, Hogan was the catalyst. Without him they wouldn't have blown up, but let's look at how it would have went down had there been guys with Hogan that didn't have the same appeal as Hall and Nash. Those two put the "cool" in the NWO. Hogan was the hated heel. He was still Hulk Hogan. Still OTT and larger than life. Just on the opposite end of the spectrum. Without Hall and Nash he would have still had a huge run, but the NWO would not have become cool. Which is exactly how it changed the business. Change that is still being felt. It made liking the bad guys cool. Hogan couldn't have ever pulled that off alone. Hall and Nash have said in interviews how they really wanted to step down their characters and just be themselves. Relatable to the older audience that had grew out of wrestling. The type of guys you'd want to just chill with and have a drink at a bar with. That wasn't and has never been Hogan. I don't think anyone is saying that Nash deserves full credit. Hell no. Just that he did play a pertinent role too.
You know people forget that Hogan was ALSO CHEERED in the NWO just like Hall and Nash. I remember at Halloween Havoc in 1996 Hogan was doing a promo and fans were chanting Hogan Hogan Hogan. He had to tell the crowd it was now Hollywood Hogan. Hogan was also selling T-shirts too.

No denying Hall and Nash brought the cool factor, but let's not act like Hogan didn't repackage himself and got some of his Hulkamaniacs back too. Not saying Nash wasn't a big player in the NWO, but does that itself alone make him have more long term impact and effect on the business than Savage? Not really.

As I said take Savage out of history without his contributions in the 80's and things may change dramatically. He helped singled the change into more athleticism(that made guys like Hart and HBK*who was being called wrestler of the 90's in 92 when Savage was champ which was a change from the belief it would be Warrior) in the main event. Vince was sold on Bigger Is Better, but Savage broke that mold in 1988 when he became very popular. It was Warrior that came and slowed down Savage's popularity in the main event, but even then Vince WENT BACK to Savage AGAIN in 1992.
 
#27 ·
For those that are downplaying Nash's contribution to the NWO, here's how I see it. Yes, Hogan was the catalyst. Without him they wouldn't have blown up, but let's look at how it would have went down had there been guys with Hogan that didn't have the same appeal as Hall and Nash. Those two put the "cool" in the NWO. Hogan was the hated heel. He was still Hulk Hogan. Still OTT and larger than life. Just on the opposite end of the spectrum. Without Hall and Nash he would have still had a huge run, but the NWO would not have become cool. Which is exactly how it changed the business. Change that is still being felt. It made liking the bad guys cool. Hogan couldn't have ever pulled that off alone. Hall and Nash have said in interviews how they really wanted to step down their characters and just be themselves. Relatable to the older audience that had grew out of wrestling. The type of guys you'd want to just chill with and have a drink at a bar with. That wasn't and has never been Hogan. I don't think anyone is saying that Nash deserves full credit. Hell no. Just that he did play a pertinent role too.
 
#51 ·
The answer is Randy Savage, my friends.

For starters, Savage is definitely the more iconic figure in wrestling. His attire - the colorful hat and robes, the distinctive voice and catchphrases, etc. - are all far more recognizable and iconic than anything Diesel or Kevin Nash has going for him as an individual. Show up to a party dressed like the Macho Man or try to imitate his voice and people will instantly recognize who you're being - Do the same as "Big Sexy" or "Big Daddy Cool" and people won't have a clue. The NWO was a group thing; Their impact can't be attributed solely to Nash. Hell, Savage was even part of the NWO, albeit not as a founding member.

If you wanna talk individual star power, Savage blows Nash out of the water. Nash was the worst drawing world champion in WWF history. He didn't draw when he returned in 2002/2003 either. Savage, by contrast, drew what was at the time the highest PPV buy in history - well over 700,000 buys for Wrestlemania 5 - alongside Hogan. He and Hogan also helped draw what is still one of the biggest Summerslam buyrates in history as well later that year. There's a reason WWE has released a DVD set of Savage, and not one of Nash.

Fans certainly remember Savage much moreso than Nash. If someone climbs the ropes to perform the top elbow drop, people will often chant Randy Savage's name - Especially if they'r'e doing it as an obvious homage to Savage, as CM Punk did. Never is that the case with Big Poochie.
 
#53 ·
No comparison. Savage is a first ballot hall of fame in any legit pro wrestling hall of fame while Nash wouldn't be close

The outsiders thing was cool but people here greatly overestimate Nash's impact. Without hogan that storyline fizzles out by the end of the summer. Even then wcw in 1996 was a fraction as hot with nash and hall in a prominent position as wwf was in 1988-89 with savage in mainevent
 
#55 · (Edited)
No NWO, No Hogan heel turn, no (2nd) boom, no attitude era, more "New Generation", no Evil Vince, no this, no that.

WCW shoots themselves in the foot no doubt, but whether ya'll like it or not, no Nash, with Hall = No Hogan as the third member, and there goes the chemistry and the subtle WWF vs WCW nuances. Plus Nash, whether negative or not, changed the game for backstage wrestlers.

Individual star power is Savage who can still be argued as a top 10 most popular wrestler of all time in North America in any facet. And i don't even need to go into his impact, especially in the WWE.

But I dunno. this is a tough one. I might have to go Nash with this. The NWO literally changed wrestling. It's Pre 1980s WWE Hogan, Post WWE Hogan. and Pre NWO, Post NWO in some ways. NWO was absolutely huge. It took essentially WCW hurting themselves (Sting vs Hogan, too many people in the NWO) and the rise of Austin in 1997-1998 for the NWO to show cracks. THAT's how big the NWO was. Think about that. Nash being directly linked to the entire NWO rise is just too big to ignore. They lured Hogan, Hogan liked Hall AND Nash. Hogan does deserve a lot of credit for the NWO but Nash was a very intricate part as well as Hall.
 
#5 ·
I don't feel that Savage was that much more important than Nash. Savage was briefly the number two guy when he was WWF Champ between when Andre was getting phased out, but he was easily surpassed by Warrior. His importance does tend to get overrated imo in a lot of threads (not necessarily this one).
 
#9 · (Edited)
I don't feel that Savage was that much more important than Nash. Savage was briefly the number two guy when he was WWF Champ between when Andre was getting phased out, but he was easily surpassed by Warrior. His importance does tend to get overrated imo in a lot of threads (not necessarily this one).
Are you sure about that? WM6 lost over 200k buys from WM5, and it's been repeated for years that Warrior didn't draw as expected when he got the belt and it was a flop. Savage also got the belt back a few years later while Warrior never won the belt again or was rumored to get it, regardless of walking out on Vince or not. The fact that they did Hogan/Slaughter instead of a Hogan/Warrior rematch after WM6 speaks volumes. I don't have specifics on business during Warriors title run besides these Meltzer tweets for now, though


 
#7 ·
Definitely Kevin Nash.

It wasn't specified if the impact was positive or negative. Nash, along with Scott Hall, transitioned the business from an era where the boys earned their pay to an era where the pay earned the boys.

To me, that effect on business is far greater than what one does in the ring, in the context of their character. And it's something that Vince still has a lot of resentment towards (hence his reaction to Nash's HOF speech).
 
#14 · (Edited)
I think Savage is the greatest all around performer in wrestling history, but if we are looking at impact in the business what have is this

He was small when compared to the average top guys for his era and I feel that he certainly moved the needle forward when it comes to in ring performance.

There may have been some before that I'm unaware of but to my knowledge he was the first to introduce a female manager and the dynamic that the manager could be loved while the wrestler they manage can be hated.

As already stated. The Mega Powers storyline is arguably the greatest one on one story in wrestling history. Overall it's an easy number three for me behind Sting Vs NWO and Austin vs McMahon. His match with Warrior is among the all time greats and the same with Steamboat.

Nash isn't near the performer, but if we are looking at a mark left on the business there's no denying that being a founding member of the NWO had greater impact than anything Savage did. Even if it was far more dependent on Hogan.

His effect on how wrestlers are paid has already been addessed.

His influence on the booking in WCW also can't be denied even though it was pretty much all bad.

I remember Savage far more fondly and with far more respect, but if the key word here is the business itself the answer is Nash.
 
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#19 ·
Savage definitely had more impact. Most non wrestling fans know who Randy Savage is. I guess they know who Nash is too, the guy from Magic Mike lol.
 
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#24 ·
I wonder how many of the people choosing Nash were fans of wrestling before the Monday Night Wars when Savage was in his prime ?? Not many I'd guess.

I've been a fan since 1990 when Macho was in his prime and back then the guy was an international star, a household name, the guy was larger than life with an aura and mystique that someone like Nash could only dream of.

The NWO was a huge thing but without Hogan it would have fizzled out very quickly, take away the NWO and all Nash has to his CV is being one of the worst drawing champions in WWE history and being part of a kliq that first destroyed the morale of the WWE locker room and then him and his buds went to WCW and with their politicking played a huge part in that company going out of business.

Savage is on a different level.
 
#26 ·
You're being inconsistent.

On one hand, you belittle Nash's contribution to the NWO on the basis of Hogan's being the main guy.

On the other hand, you praise Savage for being a mega-international star, without acknowledging that Hogan played a large role in Savage's popularity too.

Savage got much fame largely because he was paired with Hogan in matches and storylines, in other words. You can't criticize Nash for benefiting off Hogan while ignoring that Savage did the same.
 
#25 ·
Savage for me. I am a late 80s wrestling fan, so to me its all about Savage.Plus Nash is WcW and that wasn't big in the UK so I missed a lot of his stuff.
 
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#29 ·
Nash for paving the way for guaranteed contracts, being a major part of an all time hot angle with the nWo takeover of wcw and for popularising cool heels. Whether the first and last are good or bad is up for debate, but he made a huge impact on the actual "business".
 
#35 ·
"Look at the adjective-uhh.... IMPACT."


As much as The Haitch loves Big Kev, the answer is Randy Savage had a bigger impact on this business.

Savage was the man who was Hogan's equal in the 80s, and had a year long title run during the peak of Hulkamania years.

Savage and Hogan together gave you marks the biggest PPV of the Rock-n-Wrestling era in form of Mania 5.

Savage and Liz were the prototype first couple of wrestling-uhh. Their marriage main-evented PPV for fuck's sake.

Savage and Hogan as the Mega Powers were the ultimate babyface duo.

Do not let revisionist history fool you marks.

Savage was every bit of a megastar that Hogan was.

Hogan was a bigger star of the two, just like Rocky was a bigger star than Austin, thanks to their mainstream popularity.

But within the wrestling business, the two were almost equals.

As a matter of fact, Savage ended up getting mainstream popularity as well, though not as much as Hogan's Rocky 3.

He did star in Spider-Man movie though, even if it was when he was past his prime.

Nash was a founding father of nWo, arguably the greatest faction-uhh, but he did that with Hall and Hogan.

Savage wins this one.

:trips2
 
#2 ·
Serious question. Who had more IMPACT on wrestling history, Kevin Nash or Randy Savage?

I feel the obvious answer is not the right one. I pick Kevin Nash.

Nash had a more imposing look, but that's the only attribute he has over Savage. Mic skills, in ring skills and personality go to Macho.

Savage is a legend, without question. However, if he is removed from wrestling history, wrestling still follows pretty much the same course. Hogan was leading the charge during most of Macho's WWF run, and was the real revolutionary force on camera. Even during Macho's year long title reign, Hogan never left the main event picture and was still the face of the WWF.

Nash and Hall shook up wrestling when they jumped to WCW and appeared as invading from the WWF. Hogan's heel turn made the nwo super important, but Hall and Nash were the foundation of what they were all about and gave them the cool vibe that made them marketable.

Without the NWO, WCW never becomes the number one wrestling promotion and beats Raw for 84 weeks straight.
You're massively downplaying Savage. I am pretty sure he was the only world champion that kept business going strong whenever Hogan left to go film a movie or whatever. When Warrior was champion and Hogan left, business fell off a cliff. Wrestlemania 5 was the all time high buyrate for the company until WM15, are you telling me that they can do that again with Hogan versus (insert someone else here)? Highly doubtful, he was the clear #2 star behind Hogan. You can't just take a guy like that out and expect everything to still fall into place

And as for the nWo, you have to think about this. Let's say anyone besides Hogan was the third man, guess what happens? A babyface Hogan goes over in three months, boom, it's over. Just like every other heel faction that Hogan ever faced. Now, did Nash/Hall jumping give massive intrigue for the angle? Yes (Bash at the Beach 1996 did the most business for WCW when it happened), but Hogan's heel turn was the key. Here's Nash himself on it,

“Hogan’s credibility validated the NWO,” said Nash. “Him turning–and us being the guys who turned him–that worked, and it still works
Saying all of this, it's still Savage for me, but the gap isn't as large as you would immediately think seeing "Kevin Nash or Randy Savage". Curtain Call, nWo, Fingerpoke of Doom, all major parts of wrestling history for better or worse that changed the course of the product. The thing is, Nash was in the shadow for the majority of the big moments he was involved in while Macho was usually a big part. He's the only person besides Hogan from WM 1-9 to main event a Mania twice, and when he was the world champion he kept business hot. That's a testament to him
 
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