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Watching other wrestling territories, organisations, companies etc... as opposed to WWE .... the difference?

3K views 18 replies 14 participants last post by  Simpsons Modern Life 
#1 · (Edited)


Ok, so I was just thinking about this due to my interest in the 'Legends Of The Mid South' DVD that's out, which I've not yet seen, but always intended to ... mainly cause of the Dibiase stuff and with recently hearing about Duggan's work there being really good, I'm also interested to see this too as all I've really known of Duggan is his work in the WWE, which pretty much stands for most of the talents really, as WWE is predominantly what I've watched over the years.



Of course, I've seen bits of AWA stuff, with Rick Martel's 595 day AWA title reign and of course I've seen quite a bit of WCW too, and a little TNA (which I'm not big on) ... however I haven't really seen that much of these though on a whole if I'm honest, it's always been WWE for me really and I do know that often these other organisations are seen differently, with WWE being very 'Entertainment' based also.

There are so many past and present that are out there, I could go on forever, NJPW even and of course Lucha Underground, which is quite different and unique also, it's really good how they present that show, although it doesn't quite 'feel' like wrestling to me as such (More CSI or something) ... of course it does evolve around this and I think what they're doing is great and unique ... so I have a lot of admiration for them there, their production is fantastic.



Though how do you guys feel about WWE as opposed to all the other territories, like with NJPW, it's more about the wrestling that it is the entertainment, the promo's and all that kind of stuff, which to be honest ... I think I would miss completely with NJPW so couldn't really take to it, I've watched bits on Youtube and can only enjoy it for a certain amount of time, but that's about it ... although I know it's great, without the whole 'Entertainment' aspect of the show that comes with WWE (for example) ... it all plays a part in it for me and is what wrestling is all about, the complete package basically with wrestling, characters, gimmicks, storylines etc.. I know they have it, but it's not as predominant as the WWE really, from what I can gather.

I know a lot of talents sometimes feel watered down with their tenure in the WWE as opposed to other territories, take Duggan for example, in the other thread a few people are talking about how he was quite impressive back in the Mid South etc.. but when he came to the WWE, his gimmick kinda over shadowed a lot of things, so it does no doubt make a difference in some cases.




So how do you guys feel about the whole experience of watching other wrestling organisations and the feel of it, as opposed to the WWE, I'll be honest, I don't think anything could take over the WWE for me, and I know for some fans, specially old school fans, their preference is kind of against that ... simply cause I know say Verne Gagne for example, he felt Vince was damaging wrestling and I know there is a mixed vibe out there in regards to that, specially to those who were familiar with and watching wrestling before the WWE took over the way they did in the mainstream audience.

So what are your thoughts, I thought this could make a great discussion here and would love to hear the various vibes and thoughts from you guys in regards to this.

I look forward to hearing some responses :)
 
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#2 ·
Verne's AWA was very old school which reflected his approach. Verne would appear on tv and cut promos talking up his promotion as wrestling and decrying the WWE product. I cant remember the exact words he used, but he may have referred to the WWF as entertainment. I do remember him saying you wont see snakes and other animals on his show. He was very proud of that and , rightfully so, believed he had the better wrestling product. It just didnt matter in the face of the WWF mass marketing machine. They definitely tried to position themselves as the wrestling alternative to WWE

I liked WWF with Vince, but it became painfully obvious how different it felt from WCW and AWA. The matches were faster paced, to be sure, but they were devoid of wrestling moves for the most art. Gone were the working of a body part for several minutes or holding long headlocks.WWF was mostly punch, kick and finisher back then. It was def hype and style over substance. It didnt matter to me the difference because I was fascinated with wrestling. Once ppvs came, the difference with Crockett promotions was glaring.Crockett's were cheaper and the matches were far superior, in general. It was still a greater time than now because there still was a diversity of promotions that you could see.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Yeah, I think because of the fact I was introduced to wrestling as the WWE, for me, that is what wrestling is and always will be, it's the whole package basically that comes with it, that for me, is what wrestling is ... including the entertainment side of things with the gimmicks, promo's and all things like that, of course to people who watched wrestling previous to this and was introduced to it from a different angle, it's going to feel different for them and I can understand them completely being against, or at least having preference to what they first knew and was introduced to, as well as falling in love with, so I get that completely.

Yeah, I've heard on numerous occasions in regards to Verne being very set in his ways and very old school, which is a good thing in many cases but not so much in others, as I have heard people say that was his downfall, that he didn't adapt kind of thing ... but if he felt so passionate about that and the way wrestling should be presented, I admire that completely.

I have noticed that in the early mid-90's WWE, they did still have a lot of the headlocks within matches, the pace was definitely faster ... which I also like, but it's not like today, where it seems more about spots than anything else, it's a nice balance back then and probably also why I like that era so much, I think of Tito Santana for example ... he always put on great matches with this kind of formula ... as well as adding the speed, for example when he'd come in with that flying fore arm, which was awesome when it came out of no where and hit ... Tito was awesome.

Also, with today being so limited on moves and wrestlers not trained for so many moves it effects too, don't get me wrong, I still love the WWE today, but that period, for me personally, is definitely the best, late 80's - early/mid 90's basically is where I feel the WWE was at it's best ... talent wise and everything.

Although I know it's give and take with talents when they came to the WWE, but I do like their larger than life characters at times too, because it really showcases their personalities and gives them colour .... think Rick Martel for example, ok, he's a phenomenal wrestler ... but when he came to the WWE and was doing the whole 'Model' gimmick, I just loved him and for me personally, this is where Martel was at his best ... sure he was putting on much more technical matches in other territories ... which he still did and brought to the WWE, but he also showed a lot more personality too while doing the whole 'Model' gimmick and he looked like he was having fun with it too, which I think is great .... I felt the same about Wade Barrett doing his whole 'Bad News Barrett' gimmick ... I enjoyed him a lot then cause he just looked like he was having fun ... where I've always enjoyed Wade anyway, while he was doing the whole 'Bad News' gimmick ... to me it was just much better, so it does play a part in it for me also :)

Interesting response anyway, though if given the choice, which would you prefer to watch out of WWE or the previous territories? And how do you feel the difference in contrast between the WWE and other organisations stands?

Appreciate the response anyway, I do feel this could make a great discussion.
 
#4 ·
I got raised on ROH and NJPW as my main wrestling products so for me, WWE was always the other company. Hell, I was watching those two promotions at five and I didn't see a whole WWE show until I was about eight.

WWE has never been my favourite promotion. Even when Bryan went over, I still preferred ROH and New Japan or some other promotion. Right now, LU for me is the number one product. The first season was up there with 2005 ROH for sheer quality. I guess my feeling with WWE is that I just never took it seriously. Especially when one of my first experiences of WWE TV was seeing a clown wrestle. That shit turned me off WWE for a while.
 
#6 ·
Man, I have been watching some old stuff from ROH (I have watched Kenta/Danielson, Joe/Aries, Punk/Aries, Punk/Gibson/Daniels/Joe, GN/Embassy, Danielson/Homicide...can you recommend me more matches and storylines or shows from ROH's glory days? Thanks :grin2:
 
#5 ·
I look at the differences between promotions the same way I look at music. I'm a fan of a wide variety of musical styles and enjoy them all equally. Sometimes I'm in the mood for something simple and rocking while other times I'm looking for something more serious and complex. Sometimes I'm just looking for good old-fashioned fun and other times I want something dramatic and intense.
Current WWE is a three minute simple pop song while something like Dory Funk Jr. vs. Jack Brisco is a complex symphony.
I hope that makes sense.
 
#8 ·
I remember growing up and being able to watch ECW, WCW and WWF nearly every day in the week. I never thought about picking one side over the other, even though I was more of a WWF guy , I would only want to watch as much wrestling as I possibly could regardless of what promotion it was. It's one of the reason why I can't fathom people being so against watching other promotions outside of the WWE , I mean there's nothing wrong with not being a fan of other promotions, I get it but to completely shut it out baffles me. It's similar to how some people will only read Marvel or DC and not both just out of principal .
 
#9 ·
ECW was a promotion that sucked me in like a cult or something lol, to me it was the total package and he wrestling void it left me with is seemingly impossible to replace. No matter how hard I try to search for a promotion to give me that same balance of surreal excitement, nothing in the modern day comes close. Badass promos, characters that seemed real (and passionate), rivalries that seemed beyond legitimate, matches that had you on the edge of your seat as the performers put their mind bodies and souls on the line for their fan base, from top to bottom, these guys had so much heart, they related to their fans, they sucked you in. For some people it may have been a bit over the top, but even if the gore was toned down a bit, the organization had a certain type of niche feel to every show and performance that you could never get enough of it....and 16 years later I'm yet to find anything in the industry that scratches that surface of unique balance that was so far outside the box, that it worked.
 
#10 ·
WWE is all gimmicks and colourful characters. Even the Attitude era was like that and isn’t that different from the Golden or New Generation eras. Whereas WCW (‘88-‘94), ROH, and the various Japanese promotions strip that all away, and ironically, you find that you are watching something that is more artistic. NJPW, while historically more colorful than its counterparts in Japan (AJPW and NOAH), still puts more emphasis on the art form of wrestling.

Lucha, even thought I enjoyed it in WCW in ‘97/’98 and in various other promotions, and tends to have as many colourful gimmicks as WWE, is best in small doses. It’s not a style that I can watch for long periods of time and the production in the lucha feds has always seemed cheap. Lucha Underground has gotten rid of that cheap feeling, but I don’t think LU would work as a two hour show, though it is probably the only wrestling show that could be completely void of matches for an episode or two and people would still enjoy watching it.

I can’t comment on ECW too much since I never watched all that much, and never understood that it wasn’t just hardcore wrestling, but basically anything that was on the fringe and not mainstream. But after watching The Rise and Fall of ECW documentary, and having been exposed to different styles of wrestling, I can defiantly see the appeal and would probably have watched back then if I was old enough to appreciate it. ROH seems to be its successor in spirit, although nowhere near as hardcore. And while it does have that old school filmed in a studio feel, and has the same underground cult atmosphere as ECW, it’s not something that anyone who is used to the WWE way of things will get into right away unless they are really craving for something different from WWE.

TNA I think has tried to capture both the gimmicks and the art form, and has never really lived up to expectations in either. A lot of the stuff during TNA’s good years (2005-2007) is forgettable to me now, and the not so good years (2013 – now) have been more memorable. Like, with the older stuff you remember people and factions but not storylines and angle, whereas with more recent stuff, you remember the storylines and angles overall. I’m not quite sure what that is attributable to since I can remember stuff in WWE and WCW all the way back to ’97/’98 just fine.

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I also think that the way WWE presents their workers affects how people respond to them, as WWE creates characters instead of allowing those who have worked on indies to continue under their indy name and persona. This sort of hurts the payoff when they achieve great things, particularly if you have followed their careers for a long time. Tell me what you think has more impact:

(WWE version) Dean Ambrose as US champ, Kevin Owens as IC champ and Seth Rollins as WHC champ vs (Indy version) Jon Moxley as US champ, Kevin Steen as IC champ, and Tyler Black as WHC champ.

It’s the same people, but to me, there’s a bigger meaning and there’s more investment with the latter because out of the thousands of guys in the indies, it the cream of the crop that made it to the top of the business. While it is just WWE securing their brand to help them make more money, it sort of takes the soul out of things and their rise to the top is not as impactful. It’s also why CM Punk winning the WWE title was such a big deal, as well as AJ Styles winning the IWGP title in Japan. They feel like real people instead of television characters.

I think I’ve just moved to a point in my life where I prefer things that more realistic and grounded in reality, hence why I like Japanese wrestling and old school WCW so much. However, my interest in Lucha Underground also suggests that I am still open to watching a show with gimmicks and characters that pushes the boundaries of reality and that is doesn’t have to be gritty realism all of the time. I just can’t seem to watch things the WWE way anymore unless it’s NXT, no matter how much I try to.
 
#11 · (Edited)
My birthday was last month and the only present I asked for from my kids was the Mid Atlantic Films DV set that Jim Cornette sells on his website. It's basically video of old house shows from the 70's and 80's. Mid Atlantic, Florida and few other places. There is no commentary. Just pure wrestling. Most of the matches are not even complete...some don't have finishes, but I'll take every match on those 18 dvds over anything in WWWF, WWF or WWE.

I'm a southerner through and through and there was never any opportunity for me to see anything other than pure wrestling. While, yes, it was entertaining, the thought of calling the guys entertainers never entered my mind. They were wrestlers, plain and simple. The WWE has never held any interest for me because it was (and still is) all flash and no substance. It was all about promos and zero about the in ring product. It's STILL that way to this day. People get all bent out of shape when someone's 'mic skills' aren't up to the 'standards' of people they believe to be great. I'm not the least bit concerned with talking......I want ACTION. If you can get in the ring and go....20 minutes, 30 minutes....I'm gonna enjoy watching you. When was the last time we saw an hour long match? And what ever happened to time limit draws? They're gone, because there IS no time limit now. It's usually less than 8 minutes of actual in ring wrestling. The rest is nonsense promos meant to impress but that leave me bored and uninterested.

Anyway, for me, WWE has always swung too far to the entertainment side. I don't want to be sports entertained. I want to see a wrestling match. But I'll let Cornette say it for me.

 
#12 ·
It was different, definitely, especially considering I grew up on other organizations before the WWE. I watched Mid-South, Central States, St. Louis, AWA, Georgia, and World Class for years before the WWF. Those shows were much grittier, had that tint of realism that the WWF in the Hogan era just didn't have. Of course, that was the audience Vince McMahon has chased all these years, the families of young kids.
 
#13 ·
I grew up and started with WWE and never even heard of indy wrestling until I watched old matches, the difference between WWE versus the independent wrestling companies is how they use their talent, build them up, and two segways of a happy conclusion to a match or a disappointing payoff.
 
#14 ·
Basically it comes down to booking and what you like.....

Growing up on a steady diet of chaos I thought the 60's-80's WWF was dull.

When I was a kid, the WWF, AWA, Mid-Atlantic, and even Georgia, really they all just seemed slow to me. Mainly because I grew up watching the ridiculous antics in Tennessee, Mid South, and Texas every week.

I mean watching 70's wrestling anywhere other than World Class, CWA, or Mid South was like squash match, interview, squash match, interview, Italian Stallion (or insert glorified jobber of choice here) gets beat, and repeat for one or two 2 solid hours....yawn.

Watching an episode of World Class, Florida, Mid South or CWA was so much different, I mean you had no idea what was going to happen at any given moment. Heck every week brought at least one, shoot, fan riot, face/heel turn, over the top angle, or heavy bleeding incident. And just about every week ended with a studio clearing brawl.

However what I did not understand when I was a kid was that there was a trade-off, and it really depended on what the booker preferred.

Just like today's WWF most of the crazy twists and turns happened on television for World Class, CWA and Mid South. The major payoff occurred at the arena but most anything crazy happened on television.

In the other territories including the WWF, they built everything to happen at the house shows.

Just a different style
 
#15 ·
Yeah, how do you feel about the WWE as opposed to these companies, do you feel the WWE is completely different and a whole different experience as to say what Florida Mid South or whatever would bring as opposed to what the WWE have brought over the years, do you feel they're like two completely different worlds or do you feel they're quite similar but in different ways ... like what's the contrast for you do you think with the WWE and the other companies, which seem kinda similar to some degree? :)

When you mentioned about ones such as Tenesee, Mid South etc.. and crazy antics, it made me think of the Piper incident with the bottle, where I guess it would be more fitting and more likely to appear on these shows, as it seemed more nitty gritty so to speak?



Rick also did the same thing, obviously influenced by Piper (he is stood next to Piper on his bottle incident) ... but these kind of things make me think more of what you say with those territories, that's the kind of image I get of them, without actually seeing them, if that's the right kind of impression?



Not sure if you've seen the second one before or was aware of it, but this does seem kinda nitty gritty as opposed to what the WWE would bring, specially in today's world anyway, however that's more about the current times than it is the product itself because of how it is right now :)
 
#16 ·
I've been a WWE fan through and through, but as I mentioned in a different thread, I've not watched it on television in quite possibly a decade. I always keep up with it and I have the network. That being said, I've branched out a lot more lately with NJPW and LU, and they pique my interest more than WWE does. I'm still a fan, and I hope they get their shit together, but right now these other promotions are looking much prettier.
 
#17 ·
I was a little too young to really appreciate the territory days, and since I grew up in eastern Canada, I didn't really have much access to any wrestling other than WWF. I did, however, get to catch the tail end of our local promotion, Atlantic Grand Prix Wrestling.

The shows were super low budget, held in smoke filled hockey arenas and bingo halls. As greenlawler mentioned above, the audience could get pretty wild at some of these shows. It would be pretty common to see fans want to fight the heel wrestlers themselves, even if the fan in question was a 70 year old lady. I saw some seriously worked up grandmothers at those shows.

It definitely was a lot grittier than WWF, with a whole lot less flash and flare.

The top babyface was Big Stephen Petitpas:


The top heel was "The Beast" Yvon Cormier:


Certainly a far cry from watching Hulk Hogan vs the Iron Sheik in WWF...
 
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