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Could the Attitude still have worked with no Stone Cold and The Rock?

5K views 47 replies 32 participants last post by  dazzy666 
#1 · (Edited)
Do you think it would still be a success without those two? I know there were many talented and entertaining wrestlers other than them, but none of them were as marketable or mainstream.
 
#2 ·
Re: Could the Attitude still have worked with Stone Cold and The Rock?

Nope. Without Stone Cold the attitude era would be nothing but softcore porn. Stone Cold and later The Rock were supported by a bunch of great talents like Undertaker, Mick Foley, Kane, New Age Outlaws, and a great heel character in Vince McMahon. If you look at most of these characters, they didn't do any vulgarity and would have worked even better without the softcore sex stuff.
 
#39 ·
Re: Could the Attitude still have worked with Stone Cold and The Rock?

Nope. Without Stone Cold the attitude era would be nothing but softcore porn. Stone Cold and later The Rock were supported by a bunch of great talents like Undertaker, Mick Foley, Kane, New Age Outlaws, and a great heel character in Vince McMahon. If you look at most of these characters, they didn't do any vulgarity and would have worked even better without the softcore sex stuff.
That's what I thought.
 
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#14 · (Edited)
Attitude Era happened because of the NWO and WCW kicking it's ass, the change was brought on by competition, not one guy. ^^^ Is complete wrong.

Posts like the above are the same propaganda sheep who try and say the WWF started the second boom, and in turn Steve Austin. DON'T BELIEVE A WORD OF IT. And success is arguable as well, considering things didn't turn around until Tyson came into the picture, and McMahon. And they didn't pull away until The Rock won the title.

But of course people who KNOW the history already know this.
 
#13 ·
Without the Rock? Yes. At the time the "Attitude" stuff really solidified the WWF as a force to be reckoned with again, he was no higher up on the food chain than Taker, DX, Foley, or even Kane or Shamrock. But without Austin? Not a chance. Not only would the "Attitude" push not have worked without him, it almost certainly wouldn't have even happened without him.
 
#32 ·
Certainly not as well it wouldn't have. Austin and Rock are once in an era guys that came along at the same time. Let's not underestimate the enormous charisma these guys had.

I'm a Shamrock fan, but neither he nor anyone had the charisma of Stone Cold in that early 98 to start the fire with Tyson.

This famous segment is arguably Stone Cold's most important. I can't imagine ANYONE (besides the Rock but he wasn't at this point yet) knocking this out of the park like Austin did.



He gets himself over MIKE FUCKING TYSON in about 60 seconds, and comes out looking tougher.

So, may have still worked but not exploded without this initial Austin factor.
 
#33 ·
I doubt it.

Despite the WWE revisionism, DX were barely above midcarders during the MNW. It wasn't until late 99 (or around there) that they became upper carders.

Vince McMahon is really the ultimate heel who made the Attitude Era. You would need a good face to feud with him like Austin did. HBK was injured and I don't know if he could've done nearly as well as Austin did. HHH couldn't have done it. Foley MAYBE, but that is a big maybe. Austin's gimmick of a ******* rebel bad ass was the perfect one to feud with Vince.

Honestly, the Corporation did more to win the MNW than DX did.

And The Rock was so talented that WWE was essentially forced to turn him face because he was so damn good on the mic.
 
#34 ·
Dude.. What? HBK was main eventing over Bret and there was a ppv called d-x in 1997 highlighting the group. The end of 1997 and beginning of 1998 was as much about dX as it was Austin. When the dX army began post mania 14 that's when they were mid carders, but even as mid carders the stable was insanely popular


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#9 ·
I think they could have found those pieces to make it all work but who knows? I think once WWF started pulling back ahead, WCW shot themselves in the foot. I think ultimately Vince would have won because it was his company where WCW was always about different people working for Turner. Eric Bischoff was the manager, not the owner.

It's a weird hypothetical to even consider because without Austin and Rock, you need people in those places and that just turns into some weird guessing game about who fills what spots. I think Vince as the foil ends up being too perfect not to work in the wake of the Montreal Screwjob but on the same foot, you haven't got shit if Steve Austin doesn't walk out of Boston with the belt.
 
#10 ·
Of course it could. Wrestling was on fire not just WWF. WCW was drawing 5 million viewers when WWF was just starting to peak and even ECW had TNA like following.

Austin did not create Vince McMahon, Austin did not create hardcore wrestling, Austin did not show his breasts on national tv, Austin is not the only person who could stand up to Tyson and feud with Vince. Hell half of Austin's gimmick was ripped from ECW. It's just like Hogan and Billy Graham.

He was the top guy and the only guy people would of accepted at that top. That does mean if he didn't exist no one else could fill that role.
 
#12 ·
Of course it could. Wrestling was on fire not just WWF. WCW was drawing 5 million viewers when WWF was just starting to peak and even ECW had TNA like following.
No, ECW had an ECW-like following. TNA has a "maybe if we show up every week and act like we're entertained by this shit, people will think it's actually WCW-level competition"-like following.
 
#15 ·
Hard to say. No Stone Cold and The Rock would have impacted Wrestling a lot more than just the Attitude Era working or not.

Are you asking if the Attitude Era would have been as popular, or would the Attitude Era style of booking got over? As long as they would have gone in that direct without Stone Cold in the first place. I think WWE would be even more desperate without both, and Raw would become even more reliant on violence, sleaze, and shock factor. Vince would need a different top guy to fill that role. Undertaker? He certainly was over but he's never been viewed as the top guy. I guess he would have been. To be fair, Undertaker deserves the highest respect a Wrestler should receive. Taker and Foley would have been the main event most of the time. Raw would have been much weaker without all of The Rock and Austin's feuds, with each other and the rest of the roster. No Rock-Foley. No Austin-McMahon.

The business would be a fraction of what it is now without the two. But the Attitude Era concept? Ya, that's what the audience latched onto.
 
#16 · (Edited)
Shamrock would have been the guy. IYH DX is a perfect example of what would have happened. Shamrock being the new face, HBK and DX having even more power and screen time. Owen Hart probably finally gets a real push and wins the title at some point, post Montreal. Kane and Taker would still be huge, probably feuding for the title as well. Taker and Mankind still feuding.

Things don't look so dire, but clearly none of the above are on Austin or Rock's level.
 
#18 ·
The Attitude Era wouldn't have worked without the creation and rise of the NWO, which started the late 90s wrestling boom. So thank Hall, Nash, and Hulk Hogan for the Attitude Era.

Ken Shamrock, considering his UFC past would've been the guy in 1997/98 instead of Austin with DX being the main/edgy heels. Without the rock the attitude era doesn't go on another level mainstream wise and the WWE doesn't go on to greater hits with outside of the industry influences like they tried to do with Hogan.

WCW shot themselves in the foot and had WWE on the ropes even with Austin rising in the WWE and the WWE having an amazing year in 1997 with one of it not the best angle with Canada vs USA and Bret Hart fueding with taker, hbk, and austin. Even with all that Sting vs NWO was destroying the WWE in ratings.

It was MIKE TYSON that pumped the WWE up along with the mix of DX and Austin at the time. Ken Shamrock would've replaced Austin. <<< This is when it gets sketchy because this is maybe the most important stretch of the feud between the companies.

I don't think the WWE had anyone else to replace the rock at the time in terms of charisma either.

The atittude era would've worked but it would've just been way different without the two icons. WCW shooting themselves at Starrcade 97 would've happened regardless allowing the WWE to keep going. WCW's inflicting its own wounds with booking would help WWE in the long run. I'm pretty sure the WWE would have keep afloat, if even barely long enough with it's movement long enough for WCW to basically end itself with their cockiness, etc.
 
#22 ·
Funny thing is without Rock Shamrock likely becomes corporate champ too. I'm not sure if he could hold his own there but the one thing they could do to offset Shamrock's deficiencies is rely on Mic Foley who was extremely over as well. There was a lot debate if 15 should of been Rock v Austin or a triple threat match and really it just came down to how strong the corporate champ was. Rock nailed it out of the park. I'm not sure if Shamrock would have but you run WrestleMania 15 with Foley in there as well and it's going to do just fine.

I don't think the product would of slowed down until later in 99 when Rock took over. That's when you start getting into how special Rock was. Austin on his own was strong enough to carry 98 and half of 99. It's not to say Rock didn't factor in though because of course he did. We're just talking if he's not there how effectively could he be replaced.

I tend to think Shamrock would do better in Austin's role than Rock's although it's a huge step down in any scenario. 1. He could stand up to Tyson. In fact he'd beat his *** in real life which with Austin it's just pretend. He's working collar, could easily take some of Austin's added theatrics like drinking beer, the VKM feud. Now the one thing you can't come close to duplicating with Austin is 3:16, his mic skills and the fact that he was a great wrestler and wrestling is marketing based. So it is a huge step down and I wonder if they'd even take the risk of cutting Bret without Austin. So there may be no VKM.
 
#19 ·
Without Stone Cold and Mr McMahon, absolutely not.
 
#21 ·
I totally agree with what some others have already pointed out. Mike Tyson was the game changer. What he gave Vince and the WWE was something that the WWE really needed the most and that was worldwide mainstream cultural news recognition. The sad reality is that WCW had been the top company for several years but one would have thought that the WWE was the undisputed top company at the time with the news publicity the WWE was receiving with the Tyson and Austin confrontation.
 
#23 ·
Nah.

The three biggest feuds of the Attitude Era were arguably Austin/Rock, Austin/McMahon and Rock/HHH. Without them, you're looking at Ken Shamrock, HHH, Kane and Undertaker carrying a company and as talented as those four are, they couldn't have competed with NWO/Goldberg.

It's not even just the fact that you lose Rock and Austin, it's the knock-on effect they had on other characters which made them step up. There's no Mr. McMahon without Austin, Mick Foley probably isn't WWE title material without his feuds with Austin/Rock, if Mr. McMahon doesn't debut, maybe there's no Stephanie which means maybe there's no HHH etc.
 
#24 ·
Austin didn't create Vince McMahon. Vince screwing Bret Hart is what made him and from there it's just him feuding with the top face. Granted that's diminishing Austin's role as the ultimate antihero and that's entirely unfair because I don't think anyone could play it as well as he did but he's not the only person who could of done it.

What people fail to get is Ken Shamrock would be packaged a bit differently if Austin wasn't around. He'd likely be drinking beer and raising Hell too. It's like Vince McMahon having Hogan steal some of Billy Graham's mannerisms. There's some things that are unique to Hogan and Austin but other traits really are just there because he was the hottest upcoming act and they incorporated those traits into him.
 
#26 · (Edited)
"Attitude" would be rebranded as "Aggression" without Rock and Austin.
We would have Shamrock, Angle, Benoit (and later with Brock in the mix in 2002), there would be a pseudo-MMA vibe prevailing in the WWE.

Taker, Jericho, Triple H, Foley, Angle, Rikishi, Big Show, Godfather, Goldust, Venis and Guerrero etc. would be the prominent singles wrestlers with sports-entertainment/Attitude personalities. Tag teams like Hardyz, Dudleyz and E&C would still draw eyes to the product. Divas would still be as hot and scandalous. The only thing missing would be a lead guy who would be the personification of Attitude. The Attitude Era had two such top guys in Rock (1A) and Austin (1B).

Tyson would face off against Shamrock on his road to WM vs HBK. That angle would work fine. But who would lead The Nation in the gang wars against DX led by Triple H? Owen Hart wouldn't be that guy. Shamrock vs Taker feud would be interesting with solid booking, but who would play the role of The People's Champion/Corporate Champion? I don't see Triple H/Shamrock fitting that role.

Undertaker would probably be involved in "run-over by car" angle in 1999 to return as American Badass in 2000, with Rikishi revealing that he "did it... for Sham Rock!"
 
#29 ·
It would've been interesting if the Attitude Era took place in the New Generation Era instead. The Kliq were trying to persuade Vince to take the product in that direction in the mid 90's.

Yeah, I think it would've worked without them especially in the New Generation Era with The Kliq members, but it wouldn't have reached the same level of success that Austin and Rock took them to.
 
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