So for this weeks Squared Circle Gazette, we do the third show in our "Court Case" format, debating whether Kevin Nash was guilty of gross malpractice for his failed runs as WWF Champion and WCW Booker. Talking drugs, bad title challengers, 1995 WWF, Starrcade 98, the Fingerpoke of Doom, Crazy Flair, Eric Bischoff, Hulk Hogan and Vanilla Midgets, this show was a lot of fun to do, so if you're interested in the debate and whether Nash is deemed guilty, you can listen to the show at this link:
But for the purposes of the board, I'm keen to gauge what people think of this. With all the factors that go in how utterly shit 95 WWF was, and with the horrible structure that was in place in WCW, how far do you think the blame goes for Big Kev in terms of being a bad champion and a bad booker?
I won't blame Nash for what happened in 1995 with his title run. Whenever he had a good opponent he had a good title match. But he was booked to wrestle against Sid and Mable during his reign and those shockingly didn't deliver...
I will give him some of the responsibility for what happened in WCW. But in reality the system in place was broken in WCW as everyone was out for themselves and not the company as a whole. I won't fault Nash too much for doing what everyone else was trying to do just because he was more successful at it. If Nash wasn't influencing things for his own benefit in WCW than someone else would have been doing the same thing.
Yeh, I had to be defense for Nash on the show, and it was interesting to try and look at it from his preferred perspective. For a guy the WWF really did want to be the next Hulk Hogan, they didn't do him many favours putting him against babyface Bret, lying down for a visionary pin to Shawn at Mania and not going on last, getting Sid, Mabel and Bulldog as challengers, and having to be a smiling babyface douche.
His WCW run is harder to defend though, no doubt the show got noticeably worse when he was involved and some of those Nitros were horrifying.
Yeh, I had to be defense for Nash on the show, and it was interesting to try and look at it from his preferred perspective. For a guy the WWF really did want to be the next Hulk Hogan, they didn't do him many favours putting him against babyface Bret, lying down for a visionary pin to Shawn at Mania and not going on last, getting Sid, Mabel and Bulldog as challengers, and having to be a smiling babyface douche.
His WCW run is harder to defend though, no doubt the show got noticeably worse when he was involved and some of those Nitros were horrifying.
What? So the fact that two of the most over faction of all-time, which of them he was heavily involved in, wasn't a thing you factored in? Dude, once again without Nash, no NWO.
One of the smartest man in this business but also very lucky.
Was at the right place at the right time, manipulated the right people, had the right friends, he always knew the strength and the weakness of this business, where the money is, an asshole who stabbed people in the back but never burned any bridges.
A very smart guy who intentionally never wanted to be the next Hogan, Rock or Austin, he just wanted to make money and in a business with so many hypocrites at least Kevin Nash was always honest about his intentions from day one
One of the smartest man in this business but also very lucky.
Was at the right place at the right time, manipulated the right people, had the right friends, he always knew the strength and the weakness of this business, where the money is, an asshole who stabbed people in the back but never burned any bridges.
A very smart guy who intentionally never wanted to be the next Hogan, Rock or Austin, he just wanted to make money and in a business with so many hypocrites at least Kevin Nash was always honest about his intentions from day one
This. In all of the interviews I've ever seen with him, he always comes across as so honest and unashamed about what a piece of shit he is. From showing up to work drunk and pilled out, to being lazy, to being greedy and only ever looking out for himself, he admits to all of it and makes absolutely no apologies for it.
I plead not guilty. The roster was paper thin in 95. Nash had no real competition. Wish he was a tweener when he held the strap, though, he could have been the badass before Austin.
Well, in the show the charge was malpractice for his booking run, and since the ratings and buyrates tanked from the moment he took over to the moment he left the numbers were on the prosecution's side...though I feel I did a decent job.
If the question is Nash's importance to WCW and the nWo angle, no doubt he was crucially important. The show after his surprise debut started Nitro's 83 show winning streak and launched a period of huge money making...
I gotta disagree with the ratings/buyrates tanking from the moment he took over to the moment he left.
Reason being, there's always been disagreement over when Nash started booking. If we go with the majority, which indicates mid November of '98, ratings for the following 3 months remained relatively strong, compared to the 3 months prior. As far as buyrates go, they didn't "tank" until May of '99, which is also when the ratings "tanked".
Now, if we go with Nash's story, which is he didn't start booking until February '99, then you'd have a true claim that he fucked up on booking because ratings and buyrates deflated slowly before hitting rock bottom in May. But, that deprives him of the blame for booking himself to beat Goldberg (he didn't flat out book it BUT he did influence it).
But again, shit didn't truly get bad for Nash until May and I think there's big factors for that besides his booking, such as no Goldberg, no Hogan and WWE being beyond on fire. With that said, if we still run with the idea that he started booking fall of '98, then we have to admit there was a 4 month period were business remained the same.
On topic, not guilty for his WWF run, no contest for his WCW booking because nobody seems to know when he actually started booking.
In defense of his WCW run he wasn't the only one just there for the check, the whole upper card had fat contracts, guarantees and got to do whatever they wanted unlike WWE where there was one boss, Vince.
Kevin Nash claims he has an IQ of well over 140, yet he doesn't know the difference between an adjective and a verb.
He might also be the wrestler that came the furthest with the smallest moveset.
Jackknife, High Knee, Snake Eyes, High Elbow, Sidewalk Slam, Punch...that's it.
And half of that aren't even wrestling moves...
Nash himself said, he thinks he got the title because after the steroid issue, he was the only guy on the roster that looked naturally powerful. I don't blame him for his run at all.
I don't even blame him for his relatively short booking stint in WCW, even though he probably was one of the people responsible for the dumbest booking move ever, sacrificing Goldberg's title and streak for reuniting the nWo.
He looked out for himself, buddied up with the right people, and worked people to get the best spot possible. I don't think you can blame him there as well.
If you can blame anyone, it would be Bischoff, for being a spineless twat.
I never liked Nash during his WWF run back in 1995. I just didn't buy into him as a babyface. If they'd wanted him as champion, he should've been kept as a larger than life, monster heel, feuding with faces like Razor Ramon, Bret Hart, Undertaker and Bulldog for the championship. That seven or eight second win over Backlund was a fucking awful way to start a championship run, particularly as it literally came from nowhere.
- I'm a fan of Kevin Nash's. He was decent in ring for a guy of his size, though I do think he was somewhat dull and predictable later in his career. Loved seeing the dude regardless though. Fun to listen to as well.
- WWF 1995 isn't that bad, IMO, although Mania - KOTR - Summerslam were all awfully booked. Diesel's title reign for the most part was pretty bad, especially from April to August. Mabel of all people? The match with Bret at Survivor Series is really fucking good. One of Nash's best.
- I enjoyed Starrcade 1998's ending then and I do now. Goldberg couldn't stay undefeated forever and Nash was a damn good choice to end the streak. Plus, the crowd loved Nash winning. The funny thing about this though, it wasn't a clean finish, protecting Goldberg.
- Yet without the streak, Goldberg had very little; the flaw of the streak. No character depth whatsoever and he didn't have the talent (IMO) to make anything else work without the appeal of the streak. I think Nash gets a lot of unwarranted flack (allegedly booking himself and ruining Goldberg) when the blame should be on Goldberg himself and whoever booked the one dimensional shit for the 15 months before that.
- The Finger Poke of Doom was down right stupid though. What a way to leave a sour taste in plenty of fans' mouths. I could see the logic in doing this, trying to create some buzz for the show, but watching it play out was brutal.
As far as his reign on top in 1995, no one in the early 90's was drawing... Not Bret, not Shawn, and not Nash.
And in all honesty it's of no fault of any of those guys... The product was just really bad. The fans were ready for WWE to step into the 90's but they were still stuck in the 80's. After Hogan left and the steroid trial, it took the company a long time to refocus a figure things out.
As for Nash As a booker in A WCW... Everyone thought Spring Stampede 99 was a all time great show and Nash booked that.
Bam Bam Bigelow actually put him over and said he tried but he didn't have the support of the locker room.
I never understood why they took the book away from Kevin Sullivan...he was the booker during the NWO stuff, Goldberg was his creation, ect. So Benoit didn't like him, who cares Benoit was a midcarder at the time.
Anyway Nash wasn't horrible... In later years he blamed the talent for not executing. I don't necessarily but that, as if you look back Nash was horrible with continuity and making things connect from week to week, month to month.
Knowing his me first reputation, he probably should never have gotten the book but that place was a mess. No one could make it work, not with Hogan's creative control and all those turner executives who knew nothing about wrestling.
That thing was doomed.
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