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Why Hogan V Flair match didn't happen at WrestleMania 8?

21K views 84 replies 23 participants last post by  RockStarDud 
#1 ·
I have recently watched 'Monday Night War' episode 18 'Mistakes On The Battlefield', it mentions how it was widely assumed that WM8 would be Hogan V Flair, but it did not happen and instead was;

Flair V Savage / Hogan V Sid Justice

'Mean' Gene Okerlund said he asked why Hogan V Flair match didn't happen and was not told why, but did say he believes the match was vetoed by someone.

Hogan said he doesn't know why the match didn't happen.

Can anyone shed any light of why this match didn't happen?
 
#5 ·
Re: Why Hogan V Flair match didnt happen at Wrestlemania 8?

One of the great mysteries in human history. My guess? Vince was already starting to see the writing on the wall, thinking both guys were a little old, and not long for the company. Which turned out to be true.

Also I think Vince was really high on Sid at the time. And instead of the big one-night payoff, maybe he felt like giving him the Rub W/ hogan was the best move going forward. Especially if Sid/Savage was the other option, because that is just a bad fit.
 
#82 ·
One of the great mysteries in human history. My guess? Vince was already starting to see the writing on the wall, thinking both guys were a little old, and not long for the company. Which turned out to be true.

Also I think Vince was really high on Sid at the time. And instead of the big one-night payoff, maybe he felt like giving him the Rub W/ hogan was the best move going forward. Especially if Sid/Savage was the other option, because that is just a bad fit.
Good post that I think got overlooked in this thread. I've heard and remember Flair saying Vince thought he was finished around WM 8. The same with Hulk Hogan in his belief that Hogan was not going to get at the peaks he was a couple years earlier.

Sports Illustrated also did an article around WM 8 which called out pro wrestling for pushing guys with physiques Lex Luger over the workrate guys like Flair. Back then I had figured this was part of the reason why Savage vs. Flair happened where the company would not get media backlash of a big muscle steroid guy going over Flair the champion. Savage and Flair were pretty much similar in the size.

I also took Hogan going into semi-retirement was for Hogan to get out of dodge. I don't know if some remember when Sid debuted he was being billed as "The Next Big Thing" where wrestlers like Piper did promos talking about Sid coming into the WWF. It was like Lesnar in the summer of '02, but with the wrestlers hyping him up.

It was a reason why Sid was teamed up with Hogan posing down at MSG for SummerSlam to end the show. He was being groomed as the heir apparent after Warrior disappointed. However, it came apparent that Sid did not have it to be the heir and that is why Vince asked Warrior to come back in the way he did at WM 8 saving Hogan. Warrior vs. Sid was basically going to be a battle of the heir apparent.

It also made sense that Sid was promised the main event as the WWF billed it as a DOUBLE MAIN EVENT which they NEVER did before for a WrestleMania. It was a way to get around probably contract issues as some stated earlier.

Then again...neither was Sid and I never understood the monster push that he received.
Vince wanted a new heir apparent and new blood was needed after WM VI.
 
#15 ·
Re: Why Hogan V Flair match didnt happen at Wrestlemania 8?

In reality because Vince is stupid.
I was at the House Show in LA and it was sold out and the match was great. You need to remember that during this time we were in a recession (which was the reason why Wrestlemania 7 was moved from the Coliseum to the Sports Arena).

McMahon just went on a bad booking trend from not doing Hogan v. Warrior 2 to passing on Hogan v. Flair.

The other issue was the steroid allegations and Hogan going away to shoot a movie.

What should have happened is that Hogan & Flair should have been kept apart until WM8. Flair should have been billed as the SWS World Champion and they should have done a unification match for the title with Hogan winning both belts Clean at WM8.

Then shortly after Flair should have beat Hogan for the title on either a SNME or a UK PPV. Then you could have had a return match at SummerSlam (Amazed both Hogan and Flair were left off the card).
 
#24 ·
Re: Why Hogan V Flair match didnt happen at Wrestlemania 8?

The problem with the "it was always gonna be Sid vs. Hogan" theory is that WWE had already began sending out promotional posters that had Flair vs. Hogan as the main event. As far as Sid vs. Hogan, I got the impression that the original idea was to hold off on that until Hogan's planned return at Summerslam '92.


Why the match didn't happen? We'll never know. I've heard everything from not drawing to egos to Vince not wanting Flair to go over in the main event (Hogan couldn't win because he was leaving).


I'm willing to bet it had a lot to do with Hogan leaving. Can't have him win if he's gone for 4-5 months (was supposed to return at Summerslam) with the title but it's probably not right to have Flair go over. I guess you could just do the DQ like you really did with Hogan vs. Sid but the draw for that match was hyping it was Hogan's farewell, so you can get away with a fuck finish. Probably not a good idea to use it in a title match.


The "not a draw" excuse sounds good and even makes a little bit of sense but is that a strike against their drawing power or a strike against how often WWE ran the exact same match, never producing an actual winner?
 
#25 · (Edited)
Re: Why Hogan V Flair match didnt happen at Wrestlemania 8?

The problem with the "it was always gonna be Sid vs. Hogan" theory is that WWE had already began sending out promotional posters that had Flair vs. Hogan as the main event. As far as Sid vs. Hogan, I got the impression that the original idea was to hold off on that until Hogan's planned return at Summerslam '92.


Why the match didn't happen? We'll never know. I've heard everything from not drawing to egos to Vince not wanting Flair to go over in the main event (Hogan couldn't win because he was leaving).


I'm willing to bet it had a lot to do with Hogan leaving. Can't have him win if he's gone for 4-5 months (was supposed to return at Summerslam) with the title but it's probably not right to have Flair go over. I guess you could just do the DQ like you really did with Hogan vs. Sid but the draw for that match was hyping it was Hogan's farewell, so you can get away with a fuck finish. Probably not a good idea to use it in a title match.


The "not a draw" excuse sounds good and even makes a little bit of sense but is that a strike against their drawing power or a strike against how often WWE ran the exact same match, never producing an actual winner?
Like I said WWE didn't do house shows programs for WM main events prior to them happening then, they had Flair-Hogan matchups less than 2 months after Flair arrived because that was the biggest matchup they could think of at that point. They were saving the Sid-Hogan house show program for after WM with Sid as a heel but Hogan wanted time off to do a movie (this was before the scandals really heated up in early '92 so Hogan didn't leave because of that, he had already planned to leave before then). This is why Vince wanted Warrior back, so he could take Hogan's place post WM, then Sid failed a drug test and things went to hell.
 
#2 ·
Re: Why Hogan V Flair match didnt happen at Wrestlemania 8?

It was a combination of the matches between them not drawing well at house shows and the fact that Hogan and Flair's respective egos got in the way and they couldn't agree a finish.
 
#3 ·
Re: Why Hogan V Flair match didnt happen at Wrestlemania 8?

they tried doing houseshow matches and they apparently weren't good. according to bruce prichard, they thought that the match with savage was a better story being told and they didn't have faith that the flair vs hogan program would draw as well as they anticipated when they originally signed flair.
 
#4 ·
Re: Why Hogan V Flair match didnt happen at Wrestlemania 8?

I read somewhere that it was due to;

- WWE wanting Flair to drop the belt at WM8
- Hogan leaving WWE after WM8

But don't know if this is fact. Odd that if this is the case, why not mention it in shows like 'Monday Night War'.
 
#10 ·
Re: Why Hogan V Flair match didnt happen at Wrestlemania 8?

In the book "30 Years Of Wrestlemania", Gerald Brisco is quoted as saying that because their house show matches in late '91 didn't draw as expected, there was a lot of creative thought put into it by Vince and he came to the conclusion that maybe the match just wasn't the attraction that everyone initially thought it would be.

I've also heard that it was never the plan in the first place. Supposedly, Sid was promised a Wrestlemania main event headlining against Hulk Hogan when he was signed to the WWF in 1991. However, comments made from Bruce Pritchard and Gerald Brisco seem to contradict this.

I read somewhere that it was due to;

- WWE wanting Flair to drop the belt at WM8
- Hogan leaving WWE after WM8

But don't know if this is fact. Odd that if this is the case, why not mention it in shows like 'Monday Night War'.
This was another thing I heard as well. Since Hogan was being grilled in the media due to the steroid allegations, it was recommended that he take a leave of absence for a little while until things cooled off. Which is exactly what he did even after he was booked against Sid instead of Flair at Wrestlemania. But because of that, it didn't make any sense to leave Wrestlemania as champion, and so they paired Flair up with Savage and did Hogan/Sid instead.

I still think a card that had Hogan vs Flair, Savage vs Roberts and Undertaker vs Sid would have done just as well if not better than the card of Hogan vs Sid, Flair vs Savage and Undertaker vs Roberts that we ended up getting.
 
#18 ·
Re: Why Hogan V Flair match didnt happen at Wrestlemania 8?

It didn't happen because Sid Justice was upset that Hulk Hogan was awarded the WWF Title Shot at the WrestleMania 8 Press Conference despite the fact that he eliminated Hulk from the Royal Rumble. Then Sid apologized and tag teamed with Hulk to face Flair & Undertaker on SNME, but Sid got tired of Hulk hogging the spotlight and not tagging in Sid. Sid turned on Hogan, and Jack Tunney decided that there would be 2 Main Events. Hulk vs Sid and Flair vs Macho Man.

Hulk was leaving the WWF, and Macho Man made for a better match and better feud. If they had fought, Flair would have lost because Hulk would have Hulked up and dropped the leg, just like Bash at the Beach 1994, with Mr. Perfect playing the part of Sherri.

It was the right move, except Hulk and Sid should have gone on in the middle of the show, and Flair vs Savage should have gone on last.
 
#26 ·
Re: Why Hogan V Flair match didnt happen at Wrestlemania 8?

It didn't happen because Sid Justice was upset that Hulk Hogan was awarded the WWF Title Shot at the WrestleMania 8 Press Conference despite the fact that he eliminated Hulk from the Royal Rumble. Then Sid apologized and tag teamed with Hulk to face Flair & Undertaker on SNME, but Sid got tired of Hulk hogging the spotlight and not tagging in Sid. Sid turned on Hogan, and Jack Tunney decided that there would be 2 Main Events. Hulk vs Sid and Flair vs Macho Man.

Hulk was leaving the WWF, and Macho Man made for a better match and better feud. If they had fought, Flair would have lost because Hulk would have Hulked up and dropped the leg, just like Bash at the Beach 1994, with Mr. Perfect playing the part of Sherri.

It was the right move, except Hulk and Sid should have gone on in the middle of the show, and Flair vs Savage should have gone on last.
It was not the right move..... Here you have the dream matches of dream matches you have the WCW/NWA Champ v. the WWF Champ. The right move if your the WWF was to give Hogan the clean win to show the world that your Champion/Product is better.

If I'm the booker this is how I'd book things...

WM8 Hogan (C) v. Flair (C) (Title v. Title) - Hogan wins

Insurection / KOTR - Hogan (C) v. Flair - rematch - Sid interfears costing Hogan the belt

Summer Slam - Flair (C) v. Warrior / Hogan v. Sid

SNME - Hogan v. Flair - Flair wins by DQ.

Surv. Series - Flair (C) v. Savage

Royal Rumble - Flair (C) v. Hart
Yoko wins the rumble

WM9
Hart (C) v. Yokozuna
Hogan v. Flair - Loser leaves town
 
#19 · (Edited)
Re: Why Hogan V Flair match didnt happen at Wrestlemania 8?

Sid was always gonna main event against Hogan, he was guaranteed that in his contract when he jumpshipped, Flair hadn't jumpship yet when Sid signed with WWE.

And the Flair/Hogan program did draw well, compared to how business was in 1992 after WM Flair vs. Hogan was successful, Meltzer when he did the "business comparisons of 1991 vs. 1992" in the '92 WON articles stated that business overall was strong until after Hogan left, then things fell apart. They probably just felt that it was disappointing because they weren't selling out consistently, but 14K in a 16-17K building in '91>>>5K in that same building in '92.
 
#21 ·
Re: Why Hogan V Flair match didnt happen at Wrestlemania 8?

Sid was always gonna main event against Hogan, he was guaranteed that in his contract when he jumpshipped, Flair hadn't jumpship yet when Sid signed with WWE.
Vince said in 1997 he didn't believe in "guaranteed contracts" yet you want anybody to believe he had a contract with Sid putting him as a headliner at WM8 vs Hogan. LOLOLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL.
 
#20 ·
Re: Why Hogan V Flair match didnt happen at Wrestlemania 8?

Hogan and Flair did wrestle like 20-30 times on houseshows, they did one loop first, then did another loop on the housesow circuit.


As much as I want Hogan vs Flair at WM8, moneywise, due to the thinking of Hogan vs Flair would draw, the house shows are way more profitable than just ONE match at Wrestlemania. Hogan and Flair did not draw as axpected and it is still a mystery why McMahon did not go for a decisive finish and all. Tehre are many theories about this

There is this from
Bruce Prichard claims they did not draw well, so they changed the main event

Hogan and Flair claims they have no idea
Others claim Sid had it promised when I signed (Which to me could be true to the extent that McMahon makes lots of promises and smooth talks in order to get them signed, but often goes back on his word, like when McMahon promised Bad News Brown to be the first black WWF champion etc. so if McMahon really wanted Flair-vs-Hogan he simply would have done it) Also I think, if it was written in Sid's contract to main event Wrestlemania, I am pretty sure Hogan and others would have known this (like Hogan, Flair, etc) and confirmed it.

So unless McMahon feels like being honest, and come out with the truth, I take it for what it is, just of speculation. But I am personally leaning toward not drawing theory
 
#36 ·
Re: Why Hogan V Flair match didnt happen at Wrestlemania 8?

Hogan doing cocaine was never much of an issue. Steroids were what the media and the feds were going at the WWF for and since Hogan was their poster boy and biggest-selling attraction boasting about his "twenty-four-inch" pythons, he was the primary target. I don't even remember cocaine ever being the focal point. It was always steroids.

Arsenio grilled him about steroid use and that was when things were heating up. The big reveal was him testifying in court that he had used steroids. After that, the witch hunt was over. He admitted to coke use in his second book and nobody really much cared.
 
#37 · (Edited)
Re: Why Hogan V Flair match didnt happen at Wrestlemania 8?

Hogan doing cocaine was never much of an issue. Steroids were what the media and the feds were going at the WWF for and since Hogan was their poster boy and biggest-selling attraction boasting about his "twenty-four-inch" pythons, he was the primary target. I don't even remember cocaine ever being the focal point. It was always steroids.

Arsenio grilled him about steroid use and that was when things were heating up. The big reveal was him testifying in court that he had used steroids. After that, the witch hunt was over. He admitted to coke use in his second book and nobody really much cared.
The cocaine usuage was an issue because he was suppose to be a role model to the children. Even before the steroid controversy the majority with common sense already figured that most of the wrestlers were on steroids, the only ones that didn't know where the children, and they probably would never know as long as the parents didn't tell them. The sex scandals definitely turned a lot more people everyone off than the steroids. Like I said, Hogan made a mistake not coming clean on the Arsenio show, but that's not the reason the WWE was in deep shit from 1992-1994 with the federal government, it was the sex scandals. Even if he had told the truth on Arsenio Hall it wouldn't have changed any of the problems WWE faced in 1992-94, Hogan not telling the truth was his idea, not Vince's.
 
#52 ·
Re: Why Hogan V Flair match didnt happen at Wrestlemania 8?

I don't think the sex scandal was anywhere near as impactful as it's being made out to be in the grand scheme of things. I think having those allegations come up in the same timeframe as the steroid allegations was certainly damaging but the only real damage was losing Pat Patterson, one of the company's top agents, amid false allegations.

The steroid situation however changed a lot. They were forced to go in a much different direction. Around the time that Flair came into the picture, McMahon had agreed to party with the boys for one final night before they implemented a very strict drug policy. According to a lot of the people working there, it was a shoot. Guys were getting piss-tested. 1992 suggests how big an impact this had on the business. Hogan left to do movies but even when he came back for that brief 1993 stint, he was noticeably smaller. Legion Of Doom, British Bulldog, Ultimate Warrior, and nearly anybody with a bodybuilder physique was out the door. They went the unprecedented route of letting Bret Hart get a run with the WWF Title.

I think the sex scandal was such a small part of the picture. It ended up being one or two guys. They accused a few other people but even the announcer who made the claim ended up coming off as a bit of an opportunist in most of his public appearances. The steroid investigation, though, was huge. The only incident that even comes close to causing such issues is the Benoit murders.
 
#53 · (Edited)
Re: Why Hogan V Flair match didnt happen at Wrestlemania 8?

I don't think the sex scandal was anywhere near as impactful as it's being made out to be in the grand scheme of things. I think having those allegations come up in the same timeframe as the steroid allegations was certainly damaging but the only real damage was losing Pat Patterson, one of the company's top agents, amid false allegations.

The steroid situation however changed a lot. They were forced to go in a much different direction. Around the time that Flair came into the picture, McMahon had agreed to party with the boys for one final night before they implemented a very strict drug policy. According to a lot of the people working there, it was a shoot. Guys were getting piss-tested. 1992 suggests how big an impact this had on the business. Hogan left to do movies but even when he came back for that brief 1993 stint, he was noticeably smaller. Legion Of Doom, British Bulldog, Ultimate Warrior, and nearly anybody with a bodybuilder physique was out the door. They went the unprecedented route of letting Bret Hart get a run with the WWF Title.

I think the sex scandal was such a small part of the picture. It ended up being one or two guys. They accused a few other people but even the announcer who made the claim ended up coming off as a bit of an opportunist in most of his public appearances. The steroid investigation, though, was huge. The only incident that even comes close to causing such issues is the Benoit murders.
The thing was the sex scandals made them investigate deeper into the steroid problems. When it was just the steroids Vince got a tiny slap on the wrist and all Vince had to do was do steroid testing, he wouldn't have had to go on trial or anything like that. Like I said in an earlier post they didn't take the steroid tests seriously at first, after the sex scandals the government got on Vince's ass bad, they were looked as a bunch of homosexuals and rapists afterwards, it was serious as shit. Didn't help that Nailz put a lawsuit on Vince for sexual harassment after Vince fired him for choking his ass out :lol.
 
#54 ·
Re: Why Hogan V Flair match didnt happen at Wrestlemania 8?

As a matter of fact I remember reading about Sid being injured around the time of Survivor Series and he was gone for a while, maybe during that time they were thinking Flair-Hogan if Sid didn't recover in time. He did and Hogan-Sid was back on again.
 
#65 ·
Re: Why Hogan V Flair match didnt happen at Wrestlemania 8?

I'm still wondering how the fuck Hogan-Flair was the plan at WM in early '92 if the storyline when Flair got the belt was Hogan-Sid? What does that leave Sid to do after his heel turn, put him in a different feud of nowhere?

Makes me scratch my damn head man.
 
#68 ·
Re: Why Hogan V Flair match didnt happen at Wrestlemania 8?

I'm still wondering how the fuck Hogan-Flair was the plan at WM in early '92 if the storyline when Flair got the belt was Hogan-Sid? What does that leave Sid to do after his heel turn, put him in a different feud of nowhere?

Makes me scratch my damn head man.
Did they ever really give a solid storyline reason for Hogan abandoning his title shot to work against Sid? The feud itself was booked in a logical way but I forget how exactly they announced it going from Hogan-Flair to Flair-Macho and Hogan-Sid.
 
#71 ·
Re: Why Hogan V Flair match didnt happen at Wrestlemania 8?

Found an article from last year where Meltzer talks about the WMVIII main event:

According to Hogan, which of course means don’t believe a word of it, he claimed they had gone to Chicago, Minneapolis and Milwaukee with Hogan vs. Flair matches and broke all the old records. He said they could have doubled the ticket prices at WrestleMania and still sold out. He said then everything changed and he never knew why.

Whether Hogan vs. Flair was scheduled for the Hoosier Dome at any point is something that only Vince McMahon would know for sure. What we do know is that Sid Eudy (Sycho Sid/Sid Vicious), who had a valid contract with WCW, was offered the WrestleMania main event against Hulk Hogan in March or April of 1991. Why WCW didn’t enforce its contract or go after WWF for tampering at that time is a question nobody could answer. Jim Herd, who was running WCW at the time, confirmed to me that Eudy was leaving because he was promised the WrestleMania main event. WCW upped its offer to him and at one point it was high enough that he indicated he was staying, but then changed his mind again. Again, he already had a valid contract and they were in a wrestling war, so there is an unanswered piece of this puzzle. And then, right after WrestleMania, when WWE went to suspend Eudy for failing a steroid test (a test that was before Mania), he quit and ended up back in WCW. The agreement was made that WCW would give Eudy his release provided he put over El Gigante in a stretcher match at SuperBrawl in May of that year. So then, he refused to go out on a stretcher and they still gave him his release. They had somebody else go out on a stretcher. But the point of all this was that in April of 1991, I was fully aware that Hogan vs. Sid was the main event for the next WrestleMania. Flair didn’t have his falling out with WCW and Jim Herd over contract issues until the end of June.

Flair started with WWF in September and worked all the weekend house shows with Hogan starting on October 25, 1991. They drew well, but didn’t set any records the first time in the market. Flair wanted to do 25 minute matches and Hogan wanted to do his usual 10, and they compromised at 11:35, with Hogan saying that we have to save the 25 minute match for Mania. I remember being told that in September and I thought it was weird since I knew what Sid was promised.

It really wasn’t promoted to its most effectiveness. The best houses were early on, before Flair had more than one or two appearances on WWE television. The reality of that program in WWF is that the more they promoted it, in ineffective manner, the weaker it was. It was a gigantic match with 14,900 fans in Oakland based on the idea of Flair vs. Hogan with no angles and just the Flair from WCW was coming. The rematch on November 15 did 5,000.

Business really got worse after the Survivor Series build. The idea of Flair standing with three WWE wrestlers in promos hurt Flair vs. Hogan because the whole draw was Hogan vs. an outsider, not Hogan vs. the WWE version of Flair. After some bad houses, notably 4,500 at the Omni in Atlanta, Vince McMahon switched the booking of main events from Hogan vs. Flair to Hogan & Roddy Piper vs. Flair & Sid Vicious starting in February. Houses went up and there was no doubt the big heat was Hogan vs. Sid, not Hogan vs. Flair. This is from someone who was not a fan of Sid Vicious.

I don’t know if that had anything to do with WrestleMania. I do know that a few weeks before Hogan vs. Flair was announced, I was told the angle was that Hogan vs. Flair would be announced, but it was Hogan vs. Sid and Flair vs. Savage and Hogan vs. Flair was just a one week or so thing to set up the Hogan-Sid angle. Hogan’s recollection of course wasn’t true, as Milwaukee (November 2, 1991) did 7,800 fans; Minneapolis did 9,000, and they never had a match in Chicago. They did good business, below Hogan’s peak levels but better than Hogan had been doing for some time. But there were no major arena sellouts.

Anyway, I know for sure in January it was Hogan vs. Sid. And it may have been that way continuously from April. As far as what Hogan knew, I don’t want to speculate, and the reality is, he may not remember at this point anyway.
 
#72 ·
Re: Why Hogan V Flair match didnt happen at Wrestlemania 8?

Did they ever really give a solid storyline reason for Hogan abandoning his title shot to work against Sid? The feud itself was booked in a logical way but I forget how exactly they announced it going from Hogan-Flair to Flair-Macho and Hogan-Sid.
Sid destroyed The Barber Shop, kept calling out Hogan out, and wouldn't stop attacking people until he got his match against him. Hogan eventually gave in.

- Vic
 
#76 ·
According to Flair's autobiography "To Be The Man", he said that the reason that the house shows Hogan and Flair did prior to what was planned at Wrestlemania was never announced ahead of time, so you had pretty much them being thrown together with no buildup. Plus, the idea of not being able to agree on a finish plus Hogan's taking a leave of absence after WM8 means that it probably wasn't in the cards.

That is something Vince clearly dropped the ball on. For years, this was the one match wrestling fans wanted to see and should have had the proper build to Wrestlemania. By the time Turner did it 3 years later, both were clearly past their prime and didn't have the same feel.
 
#78 ·
I've been watching WWF Superstars and they announced Hogan Vs. Flair for Wrestlemania VIII. They even had a Vs. graphic made for it! The following week's episodes, it was changed to Hogan Vs. Vicious.


During a shoot interview with Gene Okerlund, he said the match didn't happen because he alluded that Flair didn't want to lose to Hogan.

- Vic
 
#80 ·
The rumour I heard was always about house show matches not being good and the fans not caring at all, which surprises me.

Though it was probably more an ego thing with both men. Flair was the absolute greatest at the time but Hogan was the biggest thing in the world. It was never going to happen
 
#84 ·
Um when did Flair ever have a problem jobbing? He did it to Hogan several times. so did he do it to many many other wrestlers, especially if it meant headlining a big ppv main event with a huge payday.
 
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