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Old 01-09-2014, 01:11 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Default Re: Instances Of Hogan Using Creative Control/Politics

Was it his idea for TNA to ditch the 6-sided ring?
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Old 01-09-2014, 01:20 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Default Re: Instances Of Hogan Using Creative Control/Politics

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Originally Posted by Elipses Corter View Post
You make a lot of sense.

IMO, the best way to explain the supposed drop in business is the departure of Hogan. He didn't appear after mid-May.


As for TV ratings, IDK about others but both Saturday Night's Main Event shows during Warrior's reign also featured Hogan and IIRC, Hogan main evented one over Warrior, about 3 weeks after dropping the title to Warrior.


Without a doubt, Warrior made that company some serious bread in '90. I mean, if he wasn't a draw, why did he keep the belt for nearly 10 months? He only dropped it because Hogan wanted it back and Hogan didn't want to work Warrior again. He would have rather have gotten from Savage or Slaughter.


The thing people forget is that Vince wanted to run Hogan/Warrior II at WM 7 but tickets weren't selling (the event was announced at WM 6). So, because Hogan was seriously proven, based on his run from '84 to '88, he didn't want to accept that his drawing power was fading. He didn't make a big impact when he came back, either. So, let's blame the new guy that, 2 decades later, we were lead to believe was bat shit crazy and a horrible businessman. And that's the reason this "Warrior was a flop" bullshit even exists, because there is NOTHING to show that business dropped when Warrior was champion, considering Hogan was only gone for 3 months, if that and when there, main evented with Warrior, main evented house shows with Warrior and closed every PPV/SNME Warrior appeared on as champion.


Point is, if Warrior was the problem for the slow ticket sales of WM 6, why didn't they budge when Hogan came back, prompting WWE to use that lame "terrorist threat" excuse? To cover up the fact that Hogan wasn't the same draw he was, hell, 3 years earlier. The story reads the exact same as Bret in '92-'93, who people said only dropped the title because he wasn't a draw but when Hogan came back, he wasn't a draw, either. He didn't appear on house shows in America outside the bigger markets, he didn't appear on TV and he only worked 1 PPV and quit because things didn't go his way.


And for the former champion to not be deemed a draw, after Hogan won the title from them or the transitional champion, he drew the same or even less than they did.


It's just weird how Warrior and Bret got the blame, for whatever reason but when Hogan did the same numbers, it's overlooked. And it sucks for Warrior because Hogan headlining house shows over Warrior, WHILE WARRIOR WAS CHAMPION. But, Warrior gets the blame. That's bullshit.
Look, thing is this. Bret said that while Warrior became a champion business got worse and payment was down (Payment has to do with the gates). I don't know, but he said so.

But you know, Warrior flopped as a champion... Creatively. He had no one to work with, he was a terrible worker and had to be carried by guys like Perfect, Rude and Savage. He was exposed, just like Goldberg.

Oh, and WWE didn't make me believe Warrior is crazy and horrible person... He changed his name to Warrior, he had those crazy promos and there is that story about him and a kid... Man, that was horrible.
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Old 01-09-2014, 01:54 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Default Re: Instances Of Hogan Using Creative Control/Politics

This is the legendary Hogan last days in the AWA. The video has edited out the "bullshit" chants from the crowd when Bockwinkle was given back the title.

I just thought posting this would show why Hogan losing to just anybody would not have worked back then. Vince saw the mistake the AWA was making with Hogan and surely knew he had to prevent this with Hogan for his expansion to kick off as a success.

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Old 01-09-2014, 11:12 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Default Re: Instances Of Hogan Using Creative Control/Politics

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Look, thing is this. Bret said that while Warrior became a champion business got worse and payment was down (Payment has to do with the gates). I don't know, but he said so.

But you know, Warrior flopped as a champion... Creatively. He had no one to work with, he was a terrible worker and had to be carried by guys like Perfect, Rude and Savage. He was exposed, just like Goldberg.

Oh, and WWE didn't make me believe Warrior is crazy and horrible person... He changed his name to Warrior, he had those crazy promos and there is that story about him and a kid... Man, that was horrible.
Gates were down for, what, two months? That could have been caused by many things.

What about when Warrior left and PPV buys went DOWN? By the logic here, the lesser revenue produced would have been directly caused by Warrior's departure...

As for the Make A Wish kid story, if it's true, it's terrible. Somehow I either don't think it is true, or there is more to the story that we don't know. I remember e-mailing Warrior in 1997 or 1998 and I got a prompt, personal reply. I was a kid back then, and it blew me away. He actually seems to be one of the better wrestlers as far as fan interaction goes, IMO.

The booking was, as you alluded to, the biggest problem with The Ultimate Warrior's reign. What was the point in having him continue his feud with Rick Rude? (That rhymes... heh.) Why not book him with Earthquake instead of giving Earthquake to Hogan? Having poor opponents wasn't the Warrior's fault.

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Old 01-10-2014, 01:05 AM   #85 (permalink)
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Gates were down for, what, two months? That could have been caused by many things.

What about when Warrior left and PPV buys went DOWN? By the logic here, the lesser revenue produced would have been directly caused by Warrior's departure...

As for the Make A Wish kid story, if it's true, it's terrible. Somehow I either don't think it is true, or there is more to the story that we don't know. I remember e-mailing Warrior in 1997 or 1998 and I got a prompt, personal reply. I was a kid back then, and it blew me away. He actually seems to be one of the better wrestlers as far as fan interaction goes, IMO.

The booking was, as you alluded to, the biggest problem with The Ultimate Warrior's reign. What was the point in having him continue his feud with Rick Rude? (That rhymes... heh.) Why not book him with Earthquake instead of giving Earthquake to Hogan? Having poor opponents wasn't the Warrior's fault.
Look, I don't know. Thing is... Warrior was a really bad worker.

His title reign exposed him and then people found out he was a horrible wrestler.

That's why I think he flopped.

And he's a crazy guy.
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Old 01-10-2014, 04:05 AM   #86 (permalink)
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Look, I don't know. Thing is... Warrior was a really bad worker.

His title reign exposed him and then people found out he was a horrible wrestler.

That's why I think he flopped.

And he's a crazy guy.
Ah. I think I understand.

The Ultimate Warrior was a poor "worker," and his reign as WWF champion was a failure as a result.

Following his departure, the WWF put the belt on Bret Hart, an excellent worker and my second favourite wrestler of all time. PPV buys absolutely skyrocketed, and the mid '90s are now remembered as the WWF's all-time peak in popularity.



You seem to be as anti-Warrior as I am pro-Warrior, but if you look at the facts, his reign as champion was NOT a failure. His supposed insanity (and I emphasise "supposed" -- the guy is actually very intelligent) has nothing to do with whether or not he sold tickets, PPVs, and merchandise... all of which he did.
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Old 01-10-2014, 08:52 AM   #87 (permalink)
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Default Re: Instances Of Hogan Using Creative Control/Politics

Warrior is very intelligent. He's very philosophical and has strong beliefs. He's also extremely judgmental and, imo, takes some things too seriously. It's understandable to think he's crazy, but I think he's just very misunderstood.
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Old 01-10-2014, 09:36 AM   #88 (permalink)
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Default Re: Instances Of Hogan Using Creative Control/Politics

Warrior could not have been that bad of a worker when he was apart of some of the greatest matches of all-time. Sure some may say he was carried by Hogan, Rude, and Savage, but you still have to do your part in the match.

Warrior's title reign in 1990 had a few problems with it such as no one bought Warrior could lose to anyone because he beat the guy who was unbeatable. The months before that he was squashing Andre The Giant whom Hulk Hogan had problems defeating 2 years prior.

That imo was the biggest problem along with not giving him fresh opponents.
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Old 01-10-2014, 12:21 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Default Re: Instances Of Hogan Using Creative Control/Politics

Quote:
As for the Make A Wish kid story, if it's true, it's terrible. Somehow I either don't think it is true, or there is more to the story that we don't know. I remember e-mailing Warrior in 1997 or 1998 and I got a prompt, personal reply. I was a kid back then, and it blew me away. He actually seems to be one of the better wrestlers as far as fan interaction goes, IMO.
I don't want to believe the story either, but he was probably having a bad day. I've seen old pictures of him taking pictures with kids in his wrestling gear and makeup with the belt in hand.

Quote:
That imo was the biggest problem along with not giving him fresh opponents.
Bingo.

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Old 01-10-2014, 02:22 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Default Re: Instances Of Hogan Using Creative Control/Politics

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That imo was the biggest problem along with not giving him fresh opponents.
Exactly.


Compare Warrior's 10 month reign to Hogan's first 10 months as champion.


Hogan got Sheik, Orndorff, Dr.D, Big John Studd, some Samoans, Greg Valentine, Bob Orton, Kamala, Jesse Ventura, Mr. Fuji, Piper and Nikolai, along with various strays. And among that bunch, Piper was without a doubt the freshest and a perfect challenger, Studd was the first taste of Hogan's constant working with bigger guys and you had Sheik for the returns.


Now, look at Warrior. All he truly got was Perfect, Rude & Savage. Rude wasn't really fresh, as he and Warrior began feuding a year prior BUT Rude did score a "pinfall" over Warrior, which made him look credible going against Warrior for the World Title. Perfect wasn't really fresh, as he had began working Warrior back in '89 and was frequently involved with Hogan. Savage, despite being anything fresh, was the perfect program for Warrior but the program lasted for 8 months (6 months of Warrior's title reign) and didn't result in a TV/PPV match until after Warrior had dropped the title.


So, when you book a guy against the same 3 guys for 10 months on house shows (with a handful of randoms thrown in), is business going to really be good, considering these are all guys (with the exception of Rude) that Hogan just ran through within the past 18 months in the same markets?



Whether people want to admit it or not, Hogan had the best quality of opponents of the past 30 years, in his 4 year title reign. They would sign new talent just to feed Hogan, which brings the potential of increasing the gate, as a new face is in that market, ready to take on the champ. All Warrior got was the guys Hogan already crushed in those same markets. So if business is down, don't blame Warrior or his "poor ability", blame WWE and their poor ability to protect Warrior, to feed him and to make him stronger. They booked him better before he got the title, at least he got a variety of talent to work with in those 2-3 years. But, while he got to work with, arguably, 3 of the top workers in the business in '90-'91, it was far from fresh. The feud with Savage had all the potential in the world and still was beyond great but what that feud was born out of (Savage's chase for the title) is the exact opposite of where it ended.



In closing, Warrior wasn't a flop. Warrior's programs were flops, because of circumstances I just mentioned, along with Hogan still remaining in the spotlight and the fact that Warrior had a perceived ego and was difficult to work with. Him being a poor worker is the last thing that should be said because if is that poor of a worker, why did he get the title? BECAUSE HE DREW MONEY.


And drawing money > being a great worker. And I dare anybody to say Warrior didn't draw money. Fuck ratings, attendance & buyrates, as that entails group effort. Let's talk about the popularity and connection with the kids. Let's look at a crowd full of children wearing Warrior merchandise and painted faces. Let's talk about all the public appearances in the media. Let's talk about the Slim Jim endorsement BEFORE he even became champion.


But you can't expect people to come to MSG, watch SNME or order a PPV to see Warrior work a guy that Hogan just ran through 8-12 months prior. And regardless of what spin on it, that puts a damper on business. Warrior didn't kill business, WWE did and it remained that way for over 6 years AFTER Warrior dropped the title. I mean, if he was so bad, why didn't things get better when he left?


Something to think about...
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