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Old 01-17-2013, 10:39 AM   #71 (permalink)
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Default Re: Controversial letter to lesbian couple sparks outrage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayfu View Post
There you gon again, not even trying, i posted a few times, I DONT AGREE with trios, like the benoit story, I dont think becuse chris did all of these things that wrestling is evil, but I sure as hell understand why his dad dont trust it and thinks it ruins lifes, and I'm okay with him telling pepole not to do it
I find it comparable to being vetarein in the sense3 some think being a meet eater is wrong, or not liking meat is "wrong" are they wrong? NEITHER IS.
Opinions can not be wrong wrong
m,ore so when you go to right and wrong and there is no proof a unver standard that makes "this right" and this wrong
Your assuming
A. there is some "moral rules" that do not differ and wehave no proof of it, in till we do its an ophion not a fact
B. your right the other side is not
C. there is no God, if there turns ut to be a God and it is the one form the bible, or any of the ones that hate it then by the fact it makes all the laws and rules it WOULD be wrong to be gay, since we cant prove it either way its not facts at asll in till we can
As for the social contect, I agree with you, but that dont chnage the fact for him that his kids life was ruined by it, and it has not chnaged, so it still stays the same that his kids life was ruined and he belives theirs could be to.
it dont matter WHY it hapen to a parent that lost their kid, it dont matter if its an "one in a billion" its still seen as bad, just like eh says gay as being bad becuse his kid had the problems, yes if socity was diffreint then maybe it wont happen, yes oif they use protection it wont happen, this is true for EVREYTHING but the point is, it ILL happens, and you still feel they need to warn those, becuse it happens means many DONT take steps to stop it.
smoking and drainking problems happen becuse of chocies, it dont mean you cant warn the pepole, becuse it IS a problem that happens constently, yes it can be safe
the propblem is duie to their life style they are at more risk then others, if they clean it up and be safe, thats ok, but numbers say thats not hapining.
It dont matter if the kid shot him self becuse of bullys being and he could of "just walked away" the fact is we need to warn kids about the dangers becuse as of now it has not chnaged and dont seem like it will for a while.
English, learn it.

There are more reasons for being omnivorous than thinking meat consumption is wrong. Yes, opinions can be wrong. To think otherwise is silly. I am right, homophobia is wrong. I am not assuming there is no Christian God, I'm saying that taking Leviticus for truth is incredibly asinine.

No, his kids life was not ruined because he/she was not heterosexual. It is the ways in which non-heterosexuals are perceived in a heteronormative society. Advocating to change the person to adapt to the social context in this situation over advocating change of the social context is stupid. Changing the social context has been proven to be more effective (see Civil Rights Movement, AIDS movement, 1st wave of Feminism etc.) Where are your numbers? Please source this. You clearly do not have any insight into the mental condition of those who take or attempt to take their lives because of their sexuality or perceived sexuality.

Warn kids of the dangers of homosexuality vs. working towards changing societal norms perceptions of alternate sexualities. Seems like a pretty clear choice on how people should approach this situation. Homosexuality isn't strictly a human phenomenon, homophobia seemingly is.

Please, do not reply if you cannot do so in a semi-coherent manner as it is at times confusing to try and decipher what the hell you are trying to say.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:00 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Default Re: Controversial letter to lesbian couple sparks outrage

Quote:
Originally Posted by C_JBennett View Post
English, learn it.
How to use context clues to know what 'm saying four year olds have no problem, whats that say about you?

Quote:
There are more reasons for being omnivorous than thinking meat consumption is wrong. Yes, opinions can be wrong. To think otherwise is silly. I am right, homophobia is wrong. I am not assuming there is no Christian God, I'm saying that taking Leviticus for truth is incredibly asinine.
And your claiming your right,m so what facts do you have that you "are right" if you cant provide facts, then its not true that your "right"


Quote:
No, his kids life was not ruined because he/she was not heterosexual. It is the ways in which non-heterosexuals are perceived in a heteronormative society. Advocating to change the person to adapt to the social context in this situation over advocating change of the social context is stupid. Changing the social context has been proven to be more effective (see Civil Rights Movement, AIDS movement, 1st wave of Feminism etc.) Where are your numbers? Please source this. You clearly do not have any insight into the mental condition of those who take or attempt to take their lives because of their sexuality or perceived sexuality.
Oh for the love of God, I've already said it twice I DONT THINK HIS KIDS LIFE WAS, I'm saying him being a parent I can see how he feels this way

You have no excuse for not knowing I said this

Quote:
If thats the case I dont blame him, he is misguided yes, but still all he knows is that someone he was close to was and it ruined their life forever, just like those who see someone die form smoking due, or drinking beer all the time
There is no spelling error there, no way for you not to know what I was saying there and still your acting like I am aggregating with him and think its wrong?
seems to me the problem is not not being able to read my post, your not even trying

I have nothing against it, it dont ruin life's IMO but if his kid died form one of those things I damn sure understand where he is coming form, just like those who lose a kid to drunk driving might see all drinking as evil

a little over the top? maybe but damn understandable.

Quote:
Warn kids of the dangers of homosexuality vs. working towards changing societal norms perceptions of alternate sexualities. Seems like a pretty clear choice on how people should approach this situation. Homosexuality isn't strictly a human phenomenon, homophobia seemingly is.
Except outside of humans its used for many things like saying "I'm better then you" and making your self out to be the leader, your basically saying that one which is a "your mine bitch" is the same as ours, which its not.
yes animals DO have relations with same sex, but they also have mutations, it dont mean its normal or how it should be

just because 30% of a creatures babies are born dead dont mean its "ok" to let them die and keep it that way

I do agree that this is not the case for gay and how we treat them, but dont think just because its in nature means "its ok" its in nature that some species mate out side, is it okay for a human to mate with another animal?

If your going to use an example then use one that can work, this one cant, unless you think its just fine for a human to have sex with a goat.


its also normal for males to rape females in animal kingdom it dont make it okay for humans dose it?

Again I have nothing against Gays, they are fine, but I also know that if there is no God then there is no reason to assume there is "right and wrong" other then what ever society in charge makes

unless there is someone making the rules of right and wrong then right and wrong are abstract concepts and you CANT be right because its not "real"

Quote:
Please, do not reply if you cannot do so in a semi-coherent manner as it is at times confusing to try and decipher what the hell you are trying to say.
Please do not get on the internet if you cant tell dont is don't as its full of people who do that and then some



Quote:
Anyone ever realise how people defending or condoning homophobia or any other form of bigotry are nearly always borderline illiterate?
Ever Realize how its amazing that you go to other parts of these forums and talk to people with WAY worse spelling no problem and never call them illiterate? ever notice how that comes up only when you have no defense for what the other side said?

Ever notice that your being intolerant with those with bad spelling? funny seeing as how you dont like the other side for being intolerant?
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:10 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Default Re: Controversial letter to lesbian couple sparks outrage

Religion - driving people apart instead of doing what it's supposed to since the dawn of time.

As an atheist this letter just makes me shake my head. Who cares who gets married? How is two people of the same sex being in a relationship so jarring to complete strangers?

And as a man who thinks with his penis a lot, I'm wondering if these women are hot.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:21 AM   #74 (permalink)
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Default Re: Controversial letter to lesbian couple sparks outrage

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Originally Posted by HankHill_85 View Post
Religion - driving people apart instead of doing what it's supposed to since the dawn of time.

As an atheist this letter just makes me shake my head. Who cares who gets married? How is two people of the same sex being in a relationship so jarring to complete strangers?

And as a man who thinks with his penis a lot, I'm wondering if these women are hot.
Why do you find it "wrong" for an 17 year old to be with a 30 yeard old? or a 16 year old?

You find it "wrong" yet in nature, this type of thing is normal and even younger times it would also happen (I.E 13 or so)

what makes that wrong? because you say so?

What about sex with an animal?

you find things "sick" just like they do, what makes yours anymore right then theirs?

Dont tell me "you consider sex with a minor the same as gay? I'm not talking to you" dont do anyhting but awnser the question, why is it okay for you to sya "this is right" this is wrong"

We have a "God" someone who makes the rules tell us, but you? are you following the teachings of someone or do you just make up whatsd right and wrong as you go and assume your right about all of it?>

if you dont belive in a God then what makes you think there is "right and wrong
"
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:23 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Default Re: Controversial letter to lesbian couple sparks outrage

It's more than spelling Ray, it really is.

You are saying that this parent believes that their child's life was ruined by them being homosexual. The parent is wrong. I used plenty of examples to illustrate where changing societal perceptions over changing individual persons has proven beneficial. I do not feel the need to site such sources partly because I already have and partly because it's common knowledge.

I love the comparison of homosexuality and zoophilia... a really refreshing and compelling argument. /sarcasm. My point is when people say it's unnatural they tend to forget the various members of the animal kingdom that actively engage in homosexuality and bisexuality. Granted, animal sexuality is not my forté.

I didn't bother quoting your massive wall of nearly incomprehensible text. Again, LEARN ENGLISH. This isn't because I am intolerant of your spelling/grammar/comprehension/composition etc. it's because it will better allow you to structure a response that can be more easily interpreted by others.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:24 AM   #76 (permalink)
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Default Re: Controversial letter to lesbian couple sparks outrage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayfu View Post
Why do you find it "wrong" for an 17 year old to be with a 30 yeard old? or a 16 year old?

You find it "wrong" yet in nature, this type of thing is normal and even younger times it would also happen (I.E 13 or so)

what makes that wrong? because you say so?

What about sex with an animal?

you find things "sick" just like they do, what makes yours anymore right then theirs?

Dont tell me "you consider sex with a minor the same as gay? I'm not talking to you" dont do anyhting but awnser the question, why is it okay for you to sya "this is right" this is wrong"

We have a "God" someone who makes the rules tell us, but you? are you following the teachings of someone or do you just make up whatsd right and wrong as you go and assume your right about all of it?>

if you dont belive in a God then what makes you think there is "right and wrong
"
What the fuck are you talking about? Are you sure you quoted the right poster? What I wrote and what you wrote are so different it's not even funny.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:50 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Default Re: Controversial letter to lesbian couple sparks outrage

Quote:
You are saying that this parent believes that their child's life was ruined by them being homosexual. The parent is wrong. I used plenty of examples to illustrate where changing societal perceptions over changing individual persons has proven beneficial. I do not feel the need to site such sources partly because I already have and partly because it's common knowledge.
I disagree, your citing these but your ignoring the fact that yes they worked, but it took since the beginning of time till then to chnage it, it took many generations and many advances in society, more effective? yes but not realistically done just becuse you set your mind to it, as you well know even when it was "ok" with any of those, the genrations born before it STILL had problems adapting to it, in fact

MAny of the older pepole are STILL racist, it was how they where brought up. ypu cant just *snap* and chnage it, it took years of work, and even violance (not on all parts but none of them where with out violance)

I would be liying to someone if I told them "hold on its going to chnage one day" as history says it will be when this generation is no longer in power (the ones form the 80-70's or so) heck even the ones form the 50's who where taught that gays where evil\ill and passed that teaching on, we only begun to take the right steps and it will take at LEAST two decades or so for any real change to happen
And expecting it to chnage any faster is not looking at history and seeing how long it takes.

even when we make the laws, there STILL will be the people who are against it, history shows you really cant change their minds on it, those who grew up with women being "under men" followed it to their death*

* meaning in general, even if they tried to change there would always be a part of them that still did it.



Quote:
I love the comparison of homosexuality and zoophilia... a really refreshing and compelling argument. /sarcasm. My point is when people say it's unnatural they tend to forget the various members of the animal kingdom that actively engage in homosexuality and bisexuality. Granted, animal sexuality is not my forté.
Do you find sex with animals wrong? yes or no?

My point is, you are saying its "just fine" for one, and dont see how any one can see it as wrong, now I ask the same of one you see wrong, the point is you just see it as wrong
its wroong cause,,, its wrong to you

same for those wih seeing being gay as wrong

if you can find sex with animals wrong why cant they find sex with the same sex wrong? what makes yours any diffreint
Quote:

What the fuck are you talking about? Are you sure you quoted the right poster? What I wrote and what you wrote are so different it's not even funny.
No they are not, you said you cant understand why someone cares thaqt someone is gay, I'm more or less asking why do you care if someone who is older sleeps with a teen? or why you care if someone sleeps with animals

(I'm using two of the most common "wrong" things as its possible your fine with them, its an exsample to make you see your doing the same thing in some way by not liking something else someone else dose, but you see nothing wrong with your self doing it.)

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Old 01-17-2013, 12:17 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Default Re: Controversial letter to lesbian couple sparks outrage

You've seen nothing: Westboro Baptist Church.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:22 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Default Re: Controversial letter to lesbian couple sparks outrage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayfu View Post
I disagree, your citing these but your ignoring the fact that yes they worked, but it took since the beginning of time till then to chnage it, it took many generations and many advances in society, more effective? yes but not realistically done just becuse you set your mind to it, as you well know even when it was "ok" with any of those, the genrations born before it STILL had problems adapting to it, in fact

MAny of the older pepole are STILL racist, it was how they where brought up. ypu cant just *snap* and chnage it, it took years of work, and even violance (not on all parts but none of them where with out violance)

I would be liying to someone if I told them "hold on its going to chnage one day" as history says it will be when this generation is no longer in power (the ones form the 80-70's or so) heck even the ones form the 50's who where taught that gays where evil\ill and passed that teaching on, we only begun to take the right steps and it will take at LEAST two decades or so for any real change to happen
And expecting it to chnage any faster is not looking at history and seeing how long it takes.

even when we make the laws, there STILL will be the people who are against it, history shows you really cant change their minds on it, those who grew up with women being "under men" followed it to their death*

* meaning in general, even if they tried to change there would always be a part of them that still did it.





Do you find sex with animals wrong? yes or no?

My point is, you are saying its "just fine" for one, and dont see how any one can see it as wrong, now I ask the same of one you see wrong, the point is you just see it as wrong
its wroong cause,,, its wrong to you

same for those wih seeing being gay as wrong

if you can find sex with animals wrong why cant they find sex with the same sex wrong? what makes yours any diffreint

No they are not, you said you cant understand why someone cares thaqt someone is gay, I'm more or less asking why do you care if someone who is older sleeps with a teen? or why you care if someone sleeps with animals

(I'm using two of the most common "wrong" things as its possible your fine with them, its an exsample to make you see your doing the same thing in some way by not liking something else someone else dose, but you see nothing wrong with your self doing it.)
The beginning of time... Really? Again, wrong. It's the way we construct terms that dictates how we perceive them. There are plenty examples of same-sex relations in history, most notably in Ancient Greek history.

Real change? The term homosexuality has only existed for a short period of time and applying it to anything prior to its inception is faulty. As for progress, same-sex marriage is legalized in some places, homosexuality has been taken out of the DSM, HIV and AIDS are not known as GRID etc. etc.

Sex with another consenting individual as opposed to sex with animals who are unable to properly give consent. If you can't see the faulty nature of this logic there is no help for you.

The following quote summarizes my view on the matter: "Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood." Now, who are you or anyone else to deny someone their humanity, dignity, and personhood?
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:31 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Default Re: Controversial letter to lesbian couple sparks outrage

Quote:
]The beginning of time... Really? Again, wrong. It's the way we construct terms that dictates how we perceive them. There are plenty examples of same-sex relations in history, most notably in Ancient Greek history.
I was not referring to same sex there, but women treatment and slavery

My point was, they dont change over night, and they dont change "effectively" in my mind, it takes to long for the chnages to happen to be affective now, IMO if you want to be equal and gay sadily it wont happen for a few more decades.


Quote:
Real change? The term homosexuality has only existed for a short period of time and applying it to anything prior to its inception is faulty. As for progress, same-sex marriage is legalized in some places, homosexuality has been taken out of the DSM, HIV and AIDS are not known as GRID etc. etc.
Yes, we are taking the right steps but we are no where near close to ending this, how many times has gay rights been brought to vote and shot down now? how many STILL hate them? its far form over, we are going the right way but IMO its not relistaic to exspect it to chnage anytime soon we should try our best, but it most likely wont anyways.

Quote:
Sex with another consenting individual as opposed to sex with animals who are unable to properly give consent. If you can't see the faulty nature of this logic there is no help for you.
Ah, so you care about consent now, so why is consent so high up on your "this si right this wrong" if someone gives you consent to kill them, or if a teen gives you consent is it okay?


I dont like them either, but my point is there are PLENTY of things you claim as right\wrong that others would disagree, and you act like your way si right and obvuis

Quote:
The following quote summarizes my view on the matter: "Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood." Now, who are you or anyone else to deny someone their humanity, dignity, and personhood
I disagree, there are plenty of things where its just fine to say its "wrong" I.E your list could fit something like doing drugs that are ilegal, or stealing enter thing here or using something in sports to get an edge

but those are not bigotry, your claiming one thing as wrong becuse you see it as wrong and what ever you see as right "is diffident"

How about letting incest? whats your take on that? two acting people of age right or wrong?
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